Santa Cruz Indymedia :
Santa Cruz Indymedia

Re: Israeli Refuseniks Speak Out

I can't understand why someone who doesn't agree with Pro-Palestinian line must have been brainwashed and must be spewing up propoganda. I really hope that im exempt from the term 'professional propoganda artist' because maybe im just putting across my view point and on this self-proclaimed independent website isn't the range of opinions a positive thing and isn't my right to speak every bit as valid as Jake or Steve?

This thread has degenrated into personal abuse against people who support dare FtN draw compare me to a Nazi when all of i've done is consistently advocate peace, said that there are two sides to the situation and most of all repeated again and AGAIN that personal abuse isn't necessary and isn't helpful. If you can't think of anything to say then don't say anything!

FtN tell me why i'm devoid of empathy but first read my posts. I'd love it if you attempted to challenge me on the facts, opinions and arguments which have been posted and not on simply resort to childish personal attacks.

Having got that out of the way...Zionist/Nazi collabortion is a myth propogated by the same people who gave us Holocaust denial. It is taking one fact out of context and twisting it every which way to form an argument. The only dialogue between Nazi's and Zionists was the one about how to get Jews out of Germany to save their lives. By the way its a shame other nations didn't do half as much to help and left it up brave individuals to save people.

Steve how academicaly sound is it to post a link to your own article? Not very and even less when your article is so awful it is simply beyond belief. You should be ashamed of yourself for writing it...if we excuse the lies, mistruths and constant twisting of facts (such as taking Ben-Gurion's quote COMPLETLY out of context) then we are left with a rant which includes as many of your political agende's as possible including a quick and irrelevant dig at capitalism! The details in your article are not worth responding but the main argument of blaming the Zionists for the holocaust is astounding. Maybe start by blaming the Nazi's, then move on to the silence of the Church/the allies/Hitler's allies/large elements of Eastern Europe. Then when shifting the focus back on to Germany don't forget then Mufti of Jerusalem and his famous quote; "G-d in heaven, Hitler on earth." You waste a whole paragraph working on the misconceptions that
A) Zionists had the means and knowledge to destroy the Nazi infrastrucre
B) They chose not to for the reasons you suggest and not because they were not prepared to kill the people in the camps by bombing them (which was an allied plan).
C) This is my favourite bit because you say they were going to drop ammunitions to the people in Aushwitz...are you aware of the average life expectancy in Aushwitz...about 6 minutes. How do you expect people who barely had the strength to stand to fight against fully armed soldiers and you're assuming they would have got the weapons.

Finally Steve you start your article by saing that "Hitler seized power in 1933 with a clear fascistic program that called for the annihilation of all socialists, communists, labor
leaders, and Jews." You've done very well to decide on the outcome of an enourmous historical deabte about the nature of the Holoucast in one line. Can you maybe explain to everyone in another article or in a post why it is that it was so clear and where the weaknesses of cumilitave radicalisation lie? Please just because you think some people with zero knowledge might read your article and believe it you should still have enough self respect to do the proper research before writing it!

This begin as a discussion on the situation in the Middle East but certain individuals, Steve for one, have done very well to shift the focus and hide the flaws in their arguments. Lets try to stay on track because there are many many questions still to be answered many which I have raised.

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