The war was fought on false pretenses, that is a FACT! There weren't, are not, and will not be any WMD's in Iraq unless the US government gives them to the new Iraqi army (You know, just like we did when Saddam was in power). This is a fact. Bush presented Iraq as a theat to the US and our allies based on these alleged WMD's. THEY DID NOT AND DO NOT EXSIST!! Ergo, the war was started on false pretenses. And, just in case my "opinion" isn't good enough, ever heard of the Downing Street Memos??? www.afterdowningstreet.org
Aside from that FACT, Gladiolus brings up another good point. Should we apply the same standard of justice to Bush as you would apply to Mr. Williams? 4 innocent lives vs over 100,000. Bush, and his whole adminstration could certainly be culpable by your own kill and be killed logic for their role in this mass murder of INNOCENT IRAQIS. What is the difference of state sanctioned killing (ie war) vs individual killings? Bottom line is this, it is wrong to kill to advance your goals, whether that is a political agenda or economic gain. I see the Iraq war as being both of these for the Bush Adminstration. The Neo cons have their political ideology to further and VP Cheney's ex company Halliburton certainly seems to be doing quite a lot of very profitable no bid business with the government. But again, maybe I'm just niave or something, so lets bring in the words of someone who'd know, a decorated vetran of the US marine corps, Major General Smedley Butler.
Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
Sooooo... what have we learned? Killing is wrong no matter who does it, except perhaps in very extreme circumstances. Killing for a profit is most certainly wrong. And, although I didn't touch on this much in this reply lets just say that killing to punish someone who kills is the hieght hypocrisy. Anyone to takes completion from the death of another soul after losing a loved one certainly needs some grief counseling and probably their head examined. The cycle of violence will only be broken by forgiveness which is obviously one of the hardest things for a person to do, but essential if they are to truly ever heal. This is hopefully more than your sick minded selves have thought of in a long time and while I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, sometimes you just can't help yourself. :-P
Re: Save Tookie Williams Teach-In Nov 30th!
Date Edited: 01 Dec 2005 04:11:17 PM
The war was fought on false pretenses, that is a FACT! There weren't, are not, and will not be any WMD's in Iraq unless the US government gives them to the new Iraqi army (You know, just like we did when Saddam was in power). This is a fact. Bush presented Iraq as a theat to the US and our allies based on these alleged WMD's. THEY DID NOT AND DO NOT EXSIST!! Ergo, the war was started on false pretenses. And, just in case my "opinion" isn't good enough, ever heard of the Downing Street Memos???
www.afterdowningstreet.org
Aside from that FACT, Gladiolus brings up another good point. Should we apply the same standard of justice to Bush as you would apply to Mr. Williams? 4 innocent lives vs over 100,000. Bush, and his whole adminstration could certainly be culpable by your own kill and be killed logic for their role in this mass murder of INNOCENT IRAQIS. What is the difference of state sanctioned killing (ie war) vs individual killings? Bottom line is this, it is wrong to kill to advance your goals, whether that is a political agenda or economic gain. I see the Iraq war as being both of these for the Bush Adminstration. The Neo cons have their political ideology to further and VP Cheney's ex company Halliburton certainly seems to be doing quite a lot of very profitable no bid business with the government. But again, maybe I'm just niave or something, so lets bring in the words of someone who'd know, a decorated vetran of the US marine corps, Major General Smedley Butler.
Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
Sooooo... what have we learned? Killing is wrong no matter who does it, except perhaps in very extreme circumstances. Killing for a profit is most certainly wrong. And, although I didn't touch on this much in this reply lets just say that killing to punish someone who kills is the hieght hypocrisy. Anyone to takes completion from the death of another soul after losing a loved one certainly needs some grief counseling and probably their head examined. The cycle of violence will only be broken by forgiveness which is obviously one of the hardest things for a person to do, but essential if they are to truly ever heal. This is hopefully more than your sick minded selves have thought of in a long time and while I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, sometimes you just can't help yourself. :-P
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