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Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

A court of the U.S. puppet government in Iraq has convicted Iraqi national Alaa Sarteel Khthee, 28, for the murder of former Aptos, CA resident and occupying soldier, Lt. Kylan Alexander Jones-Huffman.
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Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Statement of the Workers Democracy Party (USA), By STEVEN ARGUE

A court of the U.S. puppet government in Iraq has convicted Iraqi national Alaa Sarteel Khthee, 28, for the murder of former Aptos, CA resident and occupying soldier, Lt. Kylan Alexander Jones-Huffman.

Alaa Sarteel Khthee’s attorney argued that his confession was extracted through torture. The routine and systemic use of torture by U.S. forces in Iraq has been well documented by international human rights agencies. Likewise the torture, murder, and rape of Iraqi prisoners at Abu-Ghraib Prison was exposed in the American corporate media (with the attached false hood that this was just an isolated case and that those responsible would be brought to justice).

Alaa Sarteel Khthee was captured by the navy forces of a foreign government outside of its jurisdiction, the United States. Likewise, the court that convicted Khthee was set up by that same occupying U.S. force and has no legitimacy in the eyes of those of us who support Iraq’s right to national sovereignty.

It is an absurd notion that the United States government can convict an Iraqi of murder after invading their country under no truthful pretext and murdering over 100,000 Iraqi civilians. It is for this senseless act of violence that George Bush should be convicted of mass murder and crimes against humanity. While imposing a puppet a regime on the Iraqi people through continued mass murder, the shutting down of newspapers, and the mass arrest of non-combatants who often face torture; the U.S. government has devastated Iraq without rebuilding water supplies, housing, electricity, food, and access to jobs.

In fact cutting off basic human necessities of the civilian population is seen by the U.S. occupation as a way to attempt to crush the resistance. As Kelly Doug Herty, a vet who served in Iraq as an MP with a National Guard Unit pointed out, "I didn't feel like I was a liberator, I felt like I was an oppressor. We burned a flatbed filled with produce in front of Iraqi people who were starving."

The Iraqi people are resisting an unjust war and occupation that was imposed on them by U.S. aggression. In fighting against a brutal foreign occupation they are following in the footsteps of the heroic resistance we can recall from history from the Warsaw Ghetto to Stalingrad. The resistance by the Iraqi people is not only a service to the people of Iraq, it is also a service to the people of the world because it slows down the murderous and rapacious plans of U.S. imperialism to attack other countries.

As such the Workers Democracy Party declares its solidarity with the right of the Iraqi people to resist by any means necessary, calls for the military defeat of U.S. imperialism in Iraq, supports the right of U.S. soldiers to refuse unjust orders in an unjust war, and calls for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq removing them from harms way and the Iraqi people from their harm, and demands the release of all POWs and non-combatant civilians the U.S. is holding captive in Iraq.
 
 


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Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Steve Argue, you are an idiot! And I doubt your name is Steve, you are probably an Iraqi!!
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

As an anti-racist American that sees Iraqis as human beings and equals, I will take that as a compliment.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

People like you always use claims of racism as hotwords to try to play on people’s emotions to get them involved in your cause. It’s not working anymore. People are onto you and what you are trying to do.

I do believe the U.S. should get out of Iraq, but it is clear to me that you are attempting to play on the fears/emotions of the American people in order to accomplish your goal. You are probably an Arab in a country outside the US masquerading as an American who hates his own country.

You talk about torture at the hands of US troops and refer to sleep devpravation and psychological tactics to extract information, but you don’t say anything about the bastards cutting people’s heads off while video taping it all in the name of your precious Alla!

You’re not fooling anyone with your rhetoric. But thats all people like you have is rhetoric isn’t it?

I would love to meet you on the battle field!
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Jay, you forget the 100,000 murdered and those murdered in prison.

You accuse me of stirring up emotions! Once again you flatter me.

You being a racist something I made up? Hardly! You called me an Iraqi like it was an insult. End of discussion!

Anti-American? No, far from it! But I am anti-the U.S. government.

As for the battlefield, well, that will be up to you if you want to face the fury of Iraqi patriots, but I’ll warn you that as fun as the video games may seem: BOMBS AND BULLETS HURT! FAMILY MEMBERS CRY! And once again I am not Iraqi.

If in fact you are fighting in Iraq it is time for you to wake up to the crimes you are committing for a master that cares not for you or Iraqis, but only for the profits made off of war, oil, and other privatization of the Iraqi economy.

They cheat us out of the good things at home and lie to us saying we can get ahead by killing abroad. Wake up! Our enemy is in the White House!
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

It doesn’t surprise me that you would interpret it as an insult. You and people like you always try to turn everything into something that is racist when it isn’t. Iraqi isn’t a race Einstein, it’s a nationality. That aside, I have nothing against anyone peace loving law biding person.

I do hate terrorists who kill innocent people and I do hate it when I get the PLO trying to push their hate for Israel. I don’t like Israel any more than they do but I sure as hell don’t favor them either.

I hate it when I call a customer support number for a US business that sold a product that I purchased in the US and the phone rings in India or Pakistan.

And I hate assholes who parade themselves around the internet posing as Americans when they are not, trying to influence the opinion of American people.

If that makes me a racist then I’ll wear that banner with pride.

Namaste!

Adolf Hitler was, whether we like it or not, one of the pivotal figures of the 20th century. He is also one of the least understood.
groups.yahoo.com/group/HitlerStudies/
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

RACIST PRIDE?

Why do anti-Arab racists always accuse those who declare Arabs human beings either PLO or anti-Semitic. Obviously you've got that anti-semite thing going so you won't accuse me of that. So you hate both Jews and Arabs?

Adolf Hitler was the worst racist, pro-capitalist anti-worker, anti-semitic, anti-socialist butcher that ever lived.

Leon Trotsky once said that in the debate between socialists and fascists the fascists need only be introduced to the pavement. On this question I agree with Trotsky.

"FASCISM, What It Is and How To Fight It," by Leon Trotsky
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm

"Hitler’s Program", by Leon Trotsky (1934)
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1934/1934-hitler.htm
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Iraqi patriots? Are you referring to the ones who are getting their asses kicked in Iraq right now? Lol! If they were as fearsome as you say then you wouldn’t be trying to influence public opinion in America by spreading your ignorance.

I haven’t committed any crimes you cock sucker! Why don’t you go fight your good fight instead of bothering people on the internet like a pussy!
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Ho Chi Minh once said of the U.S. aggression in Vietnam that 10 U.S. soldiers would die for every one of us, but the United States will tire first. It turned out to be 60 Vietnamese for every American soldier, but Ho Chi Minh was still right.

Today in Iraq it is presently one American soldier for every 100 Iraqi, but U.S. imperialism is still hurting with over one thousand dead (according to unreliable official figures) and many-many more wounded. Many of the major cities of Iraq are under the control of Iraqis.

Despite the arrogance of U.S. imperialism and the racist diatribes of idiots playing war games in Nazi uniforms: All of the weapons of modern warfare, it seems, cannot conquer the people of Iraq!

Cock sucker? Pussy? Why not throw in girly man.

Crimes? I have no doubt that you have committed them. I'm making a list and I'm checking it twice.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

"I'm making a list and I'm checking it twice."

I love the holiday spirit!

I did a little research on our friend Jay, here is enough to track him down:

profiles.yahoo.com/krazij9
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Personally I think there are many more important things for people to do at present than be going after this guy.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Iraqi Alla lover asks, "Cock sucker? Pussy? Why not throw in girly man."

If the shoe fits… Wear it, jackass. Come get me, I have the weapons and training.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Jay, as I've said, you are not worth it. You are only a pawn in their game. I have nothing against people teaching you and your kind a lesson or two, and it sounds like somebody may have that in mind, but I just feel that there are bigger fish to fry and a need for wider education and preservation of cadre over ill advised combat in this political period.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Is there any logical argument that can convince me that leaving Iraq to Saddam's former supporters at this stage is actually good for Iraq, and the region?
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

There are many different forces that oppose the U.S. occupation and mass-murder taking place in Iraq, not just supporters of Saddam Hussein. Here are three of many good arguments for giving Iraq back to the Iraqi people.

1. It would end the war crimes currently being carried out by the U.S. and British governments in Iraq.

2. The U.S. would stop spending billions of dollars and the lives of our youth for the profits of the oil and weapons industries as well as other industries benefiting from privatization while social programs are cut at home.

3. Iraq does not belong to the United States and U.S. corporate interests.

The Iraqi people were better off before the U.S. invaded and likely will be better off after the U.S. leaves. I wrote the following before the U.S. invaded:

What Is Socialism, and Why We Oppose The Invasion of Iraq

Written March 25, 2003
By Steve Argue
Capitalism is a system of legalized exploitation, discrimination,
war, oppression, and environmental degradation. In this capitalist
world enough food is produced but people go hungry. We work if we
are lucky, but the riches produced by our labor go into the pockets
of the wealthy. Yet it is the working class youth that are sent to
go fight and die so that U.S. oil monopolies can get direct control
trillions of dollars worth of oil under the Iraqi sand. Meanwhile
those same capitalists use their control of the government and the
economy to keep the U.S. economy dependent on detrimental fossil
fuels. In doing so the capitalists have brought on global warming,
an environmental and human catastrophe that has only just begun.

Capitalism is guilty of many crimes, from the murder of 3 million
Vietnamese with the U.S. war in Vietnam, to hunger, as well as the
degradation of the planet itself. For many of us who recognize
capitalism is the problem we see socialism as the solution, but what
is socialism?

As I see it there are four main currents of socialist thought.
There are those who are of the social democratic type who usually
reject socialist revolution as impossible or counter-productive.
Instead their leaders use toned down socialist rhetoric to fool
workers and other progressive minded people into supporting them
while the leaders get cushy jobs in the unions or capitalist
government offices. In these offices they promote an agenda of
class collaboration, masking the fact that they are betraying the
interests of the working class with false arguments about the common
interests of workers and exploiters and arguments about what the
situation is rather than struggling for what the situation should
be. Examples of these types of "socialists" are Prime Minister
Schroeder in Germany, Former President Francois Mitterrand in
France, and Mike Rotkin on the Santa Cruz California City Council.

The second kind of socialists are those who are uncritically
inspired by the real gains of the socialist revolutions that created
the Soviet Union, the Peoples Republic of China, and the revolution
in Cuba that ended the U.S. backed Batista dictatorship. They point
to how these revolutions freed their countries from foreign
imperialist control; defeated Nazi Germany; eliminated barbaric
practices such as the foot binding of women in China and racial
segregation in Cuba; and overturned the capitalist system of
exploitation making sure that everyone had work, housing, was fed,
had healthcare, and free education. Yet these socialists (or
communists as they are often called) often ignore the inequalities
and repression faced by the working class from a privileged ruling
bureaucracy that are real components of these systems.

The third type of socialist completely rejects both the pro-
capitalist social democrats and the dictatorial communists and
argues that the socialism they struggle for has nothing in common
with either. In this respect part of their philosophy is very
similar to that of the anarchists. It is a philosophy that is
easily understood, but over-simplifies more complex realities.

There is a fourth type of socialist that I represent here. We
recognize the gains made by the Soviet people in overthrowing the
Czar and later smashing Hitler, but we do not forget the crimes of
Stalin. Likewise we recognize the fundamental flaw made in
that "communist" model in every subsequent socialist revolution
since. That fundamental flaw is the lack of real workers
democracy. To counter this flaw we struggle for socialism on a
different model, socialism without capitalism yes, but also
socialism with democracy.

For many this flies in the face of their simple concepts of the
world where everything is either good or bad. When socialists point
to the break down of the Russian economy with emergence of
unemployment, homelessness, and a 10 year drop in life expectancy
since the capitalist counter-revolution led by Yeltsin it does not
mean that we supported everything under Soviet Communist rule, only
that for the average person things were better than under
capitalism.

Today in Russia where most Soviet youth once dreamed of being
astronauts or doctors, they now dream of being a hitman for the mob
or a greedy oil tycoon.

In opposition to the Russian model (that being the capitalist
program of counter-revolution, privatization, and austerity against
the working class being carried out now) we call for the
preservation of the planned economy coupled with a political
revolution that replaces the bureaucratic caste in power in Cuba,
North Korea, China, and Vietnam. In doing so we recognize that this
kind of political-revolution will only come from the people of those
countries themselves and that the intervention of the governments of
the U.S., Britain or any other imperialist country will only bring
death, destruction, and all the miseries of capitalist counter-
revolution. The American capitalist class has already murdered
around 6 million people in its wars against the people these four
countries, so the socialist movement stands uncompromisingly in
total opposition to any continued intervention in these countries as
well as standing in support of their right to defend themselves
militarily.

Just as the main classes of the capitalist countries are divided
between the interests of the capitalist class and its drive for
profits at the expense of the working class, the interests of the
world are divided between those of the weak, poor, and subjugated
nations on the one hand and the interests of the capitalist classes
of the rich imperialist countries on the other.

While the working class of the capitalist countries around the
world often face clubs, tear gas, and even bullets and torture
chambers for organizing to assert our interests against those of the
capitalists; So to do the leaders of the weaker capitalist countries
face the wrath of the imperialist capitalist class when they try to
assert their power to control their own resources. This is the
essence of the Anglo-American war against Iraq.

In the 1970s Iraq nationalized its oil fields. This helped the
Iraqi people by taking a chunk of the profits made off of oil out of
the hands of the international oil monopolies and instead keeping
them in Iraq. This money helped pay for free healthcare and
education. As such this was a socialist measure carried out by
Saddam Hussein's capitalist government. It was also a measure that
stood up to the interests of the rich and powerful nations. For
both reasons socialists supported the nationalization of Iraqi oil
while those measures infuriated the imperialists.

The world was very different in the 1970s. The strength of the
Soviet Union and its value as a trading partner alongside the defeat
of the U.S. in its imperialist war of aggression in Southeast Asia
helped Iraq in developing its own independent course in dealing with
its own internal affairs and resources.

Does this mean that socialists support Saddam Hussein. No. We
merely defend the right of Iraq as a weaker nation to run its
affairs as it sees fit without US and British imperialist
intervention and we support the nationalization of the oil
industry. We also understand that a defeat of U.S. imperialism in
Iraq would strengthen the entire world against the seemingly
invincible might of U.S. imperialism making other countries better
able to shape their own destinies and independent courses as well as
taking other countries out of the sights of the imperialists as the
next target for war. A defeat for the imperialist governments would
also strengthen the revolutionary working class movements within the
imperialist countries themselves.

While defending Iraq against imperialist attack and supporting
their right to defend themselves socialists also recognize that
Saddam Hussein is a capitalist leader and that the Iraqi people have
their own scores to settle with him. Yet any government set up by a
US occupation army will not be democratic and will only lead to the
privatization of the resources that American oil monopolies intend
to steal.

America's so-called concern for human rights can be seen in the
past US interventions in Iraq. Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath Party first
came to power in 1963. Immediately after taking power, based on
lists provided by the CIA, they rounded up 5,000 leftists and trade-
union leaders and murdered them. After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
we were shown pictures of Iraqi Kurds killed by poison gas in the
U.S. media. What we were not told is why the US was silent when
this was happening and the fact that the US supplied the gas to kill
the Kurds and to kill Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war. While we are
now told of the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people we are not
told of how the Turkish government is carrying out the same policies
of genocide against the Turkish Kurds, and doing it with U.S.
weaponry.

Many of the Kurds know that their national interest to self-
determination, without the genocidal repression they currently face
throughout their homeland, will never be established by
the "liberating" forces of Turkey, Iran, or US imperialism. British
imperialism divided Kurdistan, a country with its own unique
language and culture, into a minority inside the nations of Iraq,
Turkey, Syria, and Iran. Today the Kurds are the largest nation
without a homeland in the world. Yet while the U.S. government
supplies the military hardware to kill Turkish Kurds they cry
crocodile tears for Iraqi Kurds. Imperialism, with its motto of
divide and conquer, never has and never will solve the Kurdish
question. A free and united Kurdistan will only be born through a
sweeping socialist revolution that overthrows the capitalist regimes
of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria while challenging the dictates and
military of the United States.

Just as U.S. imperialism will never solve the Kurdish question,
nor will it ever solve the question of women's liberation in the
Middle East. Unlike all of the US supported governments and forces
in the Arab World, Iraqi women have many rights found nowhere else
in the Arab World except in the Asian republics of the former Soviet
Union. Over 50% of Iraqi doctors are women. Iraqi women are
allowed to walk unescorted in the streets. They are allowed to
drive. Iraqi women can even freely criticize men. In addition
Iraqi women have the right to work and control their own funds.
This is in stark contrast to the treatment of women under the
repressive U.S. backed governments of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia where
women have no rights what-so-ever.

The U.S. ruling class hates governments like Iraq, Libya, and
Venezuela who use the profits of their oil resources partly to
benefit the people with social programs. Likewise they love
governments like that of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait that strip the
people of all their rights and keep the oil profits in the hands of
the international oil monopolies and their corrupt local servants.
Today in the United States we face unemployment, homelessness, and a
lack of health care. The billions of dollars the U.S. is
squandering on killing Iraqis to steal their resources should be
spent to benefit the working class and poor of the United States.

The Peace and Freedom Party is a socialist party with 80,000
registrants in the state of California. As a political party that
calls for a democratic and socialist change in American society
we've opposed all U.S. wars since we were founded in 1967 and call
for sweeping changes in American society to feed, house, employ, and
provide health care for every person.

Register to vote with the Peace and Freedom Party! Resist the
war in the streets, workplaces, schools, and in the barracks!
Organize to end all imperial bloodshed through socialist revolution!

The homepage for Liberation News can be found at
lists.riseup.net/www/info/liberation_news

People may subscribe to the list by sending email to
liberation_news-subscribe (at) lists.riseup.net
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

1. Warcrimes will be inevitable, but the scant few being comitted by the United States is nothing compared to the horror carried out by Saddam Hussein, or what would most likely be carried out in the vacuum left by a U.S withdrawel from the region.

2. The United States is the world's richest nation in the world, and very generous with it's social programs. Personally I find it unethical that we would not use our great wealth and power to right many of the wrongs in the world - notably right now what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. Personally I find it quite repugnant to have the world's most powerful military and not utilize it for the betterment of the world.

3. Neither did Japan and Germany - and those occupations were decried as failures immediately following WW2, and yet today those are both prosperous, peaceful democracies.

History has shown the United States to be fairly judicious with it's use of force... I do believe that South Korea is a prosperous and independent democracy, as is Japan, Western Europe, even the Phillipines is independent. This talk of U.S imperialism is pure drivel.

Steve Argue - "The Iraqi people were better off before the U.S. invaded and likely will be better off after the U.S. leaves. I wrote the following before the U.S. invaded"

Indeed, and Europe was better off under Hitler... I almost shutter to think what sort of logic is utilized to come up with this belief.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Scant few war crimes being carried out by the United States? The U.S. has murdered over 100,000 Iraqi civilians in a about a year and a half. While imposing a puppet a regime on the Iraqi people through continued mass murder, the shutting down of newspapers, and the mass arrest of non-combatants who often face torture; the U.S. government has devastated Iraq without rebuilding water supplies, housing, electricity, food, and access to jobs. The entire invasion of Iraq is a war crime.

"n5667" says, "Personally I find it quite repugnant to have the world's most powerful military and not utilize it for the betterment of the world." You should find the present situation repugnant then because that is not what the U.S. military is used for. The U.S. military is used to terrorize the people of the world to ensure unhindered exploitation by U.S. capitalists of the world's resources, labor, and markets. The U.S. government is the biggest supporter of murderous dictatorial regimes in the world. Take a look at the coup the U.S. carried out in Haiti this year. That is what the U.S. military is used for.

"n5667" says, "and Europe was better off under Hitler... I almost shutter to think what sort of logic is utilized to come up with this belief." I never said that Germany was better off under Hitler. Saddam Hussein was not Hitler. Nazi Germany was destroyed by the Soviet Union after Hitler's aggression against that country. Nazi Germany was also a threat to the United States. Iraq was never a threat of any kind. Nor was Saddam Hussein carrying out crimes anywhere near the crimes of Hitler, nor any more than U.S. allies carry out regularly.

To U.S. imperialism the only crime of Saddam Hussein was that he nationalized the oil and used much of the money from that resource for healthcare and education. To be a U.S. ally you must act like the Saudi Arabian monarchy, making sure that oil profits go almost solely to U.S. oil corporations. This also why the U.S. is trying to overthrow the democratically elected Chavez government in Venezuela.

Iraq's problems will only solved by the Iraqi people, not through continued occupation, war, privatization, and puppet dictatorship. U.S. Troops Out Now!
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

"The U.S. has murdered over 100,000 Iraqi civilians in a about a year and a half."

I'd like to see that evidence backed up, if you could please.

"the U.S. government has devastated Iraq without rebuilding water supplies, housing, electricity, food, and access to jobs. The entire invasion of Iraq is a war crime."

There are currently over 1,000 reconstruction projects underway in Iraq. Iraq's power production levels already outstrip pre-war levels.

"To U.S. imperialism the only crime of Saddam Hussein was that he nationalized the oil and used much of the money from that resource for healthcare and education."

I'll have to see some evidence of that too, because it's a little hard to see his golden healthcare system - I mean, I've seen his AK-47s that are gold plated, but no education system.

"Take a look at the coup the U.S. carried out in Haiti this year. That is what the U.S. military is used for."

Ohhhh, it was the U.S and not the U.N? Strange, because Haiti is now under the purview of the U.N security mission, and it is U.N forces now stationed there.

"To be a U.S. ally you must act like the Saudi Arabian monarchy, making sure that oil profits go almost solely to U.S. oil corporations."

Is that why the Shieks are so poor...

"Iraq's problems will only solved by the Iraqi people"

Indeed, it only took them about 40 years to solve the problem of Saddam, but then they finally - oh, wait, they didn't. But the majority of them are glad that we took care of Saddam.
 

100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

In response to your first question "n5667". I'll respond to your others later.

"they toll for thee."

www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5050397-103550,00.html
100,000 Iraqi civilians dead, says study
Sarah Boseley, health editor
Friday October 29, 2004

The Guardian
About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children -
have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of
airstrikes by coalition forces, according to the first reliable study
of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts.

The study, which was carried out in 33 randomly-chosen neighbourhoods
of Iraq representative of the entire population, shows that violence
is now the leading cause of death in Iraq. Before the invasion, most
people died of heart attacks, stroke and chronic illness. The risk of
a violent death is now 58 times higher than it was before the
invasion.

Last night the Lancet medical journal fast-tracked the survey to
publication on its website after rapid, but extensive peer review and
editing because, said Lancet editor Richard Horton, "of its
importance to the evolving security situation in Iraq". But the
findings raised important questions also for the governments of the
United Sates and Britain who, said Dr Horton in a commentary, "must
have considered the likely effects of their actions for civilians".

The research was led by Les Roberts of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health in Baltimore. Five of the six Iraqi
interviewers who went to the 988 households in the survey were
doctors and all those involved in the research on the ground, says
the paper, risked their lives to collect the data. Householders were
asked about births and deaths in the 14.6 months before the March
2003 invasion, and births and deaths in the 17.8 months afterwards.

When death certificates were not available, there were good reasons,
say the authors. "We think it is unlikely that deaths were falsely
recorded. Interviewers also believed that in the Iraqi culture it was
unlikely for respondents to fabricate deaths," they write.

They found an increase in infant mortality from 29 to 57 deaths per
1,000 live births, which is consistent with the pattern in wars,
where women are unable or unwilling to get to hospital to deliver
babies, they say. The other increase was in violent death, which was
reported in 15 of the 33 clusters studied and which was mostly
attributed to airstrikes.

"Despite widespread Iraqi casualties, household interview data do not
show evidence of widespread wrongdoing on the part of individual
soldiers on the ground," write the researchers. Only three of the 61
deaths involved coalition soldiers killing Iraqis with small arms
fire. In one case, a 56-year-old man might have been a combatant,
they say, in the second a 72-year-old man was shot at a checkpoint
and in the third, an armed guard was mistaken for a combatant and
shot during a skirmish. In the second two cases, American soldiers
apologised to the families.

"The remaining 58 killings (all attributed to US forces by
interviewees) were caused by helicopter gunships, rockets or other
forms of aerial weaponry," they write.

The biggest death toll recorded by the researchers was in Falluja,
which registered two-thirds of the violent deaths they found. "In
Falluja, 23 households of 52 visited were either temporarily or
permanently abandoned. Neighbours interviewed described widespread
death in most of the abandoned houses but could not give adequate
details for inclusion in the survey," they write.

The researchers criticise the failure of the coalition authorities to
attempt to assess for themselves the scale of the civilian casualties.

"US General Tommy Franks is widely quoted as saying 'we don't do body
counts'," they write, but occupying armies have responsibilities
under the Geneva convention."This survey shows that with modest
funds, four weeks and seven Iraqi team members willing to risk their
lives, a useful measure of civilan deaths could be obtained."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Read that report carefully - the authors are 95% sure the additional Iraqi deaths caused by the war falls between 8,000 and 95,000

slate.msn.com/id/2108887/
 

More On Deaths

From The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/international/europe/29casualties.html

Study Puts Iraqi Deaths of Civilians at 100,000
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL,
International Herald Tribune
Published: October 29, 2004

santacruz.indymedia.org/otherpress/display/373
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Read that report carefully - the authors are 95% sure the additional Iraqi deaths caused by the war falls between 8,000 and 95,000

slate.msn.com/id/2108887/
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

Actually based on the statistical sample, there was some certainty that the death toll was 100,000 or more. Perhaps a course on statistics would be useful for the person who wrote the article at the end of "n5667's" link.

In addition a reliable study done by Iraqis just a few months after the invasion put the estimate at 30,000. Exact numbers are not now known due to the lack of body counts being done by the United States, but 100,000 and climbing was the best estimate a couple months ago.
 

Re: Free Alaa Sarteel Khthee! U.S. Out of Iraq Now!

And what shortcomings does the article have? Where do they err when pointing out the actual statistics released by the Johns Hopkins report?
 

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