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Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Santa Cruz Community Television is offering up more than the usual community dish. Recently, Club Cruz, a locally produced television show, has been used as a platform for virtual infomercials for an extremist group with a record of harassing peace advocates.

The show, produced by Santa Cruz resident Becky Johnson, has featured on several occasions a man named Lee Kaplan, self-proclaimed founder and director of the extreme Zionist group, Dafka. read more >>



Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

By Will Wallace


Santa Cruz Community Television is offering up more than the usual community dish. Recently, Club Cruz, a locally produced television show, has been used as a platform for virtual infomercials for an extremist group with a record of harassing peace advocates.

The show, produced by Santa Cruz resident Becky Johnson, has featured on several occasions a man named Lee Kaplan, self-proclaimed founder and director of the extreme Zionist group, Dafka. During the episodes, Kaplan dominated the half-hour shows with inaccuracies about the Palestinian peace movement, negative stereotypes about Arabs and Islam, and potentially slanderous statements about widely respected groups such as Santa Cruz’s Resource Center for Nonviolence and Berkely’s MidEast Children’s Alliance and individuals involved with them. Intermittently throughout the show, addresses of Kaplan’s websites appeared across the screen and Kaplan invited viewers to visit the websites; he also promoted a book that was for sale on one of the websites. Each episode also featured a disgruntled Arab guest who shared negative opinions about Palestinians and Arabs from a presumed “insider’s? perspective. (One questions the authenticity of such guests, however, since Kaplan brags on his website about disguising himself and passing himself off as an Arab at various peaceful gatherings.)

Ron Holman, Programming Director at Community Television, said that even though some people may disagree with statements Kaplan makes, he is able to appear on their channels via their rules which set up the community stations as resource centers for the public as opposed to a television network model. Holman noted that an individual’s speech could be limited if he was inciting violence.

Though Kaplan didn’t directly call for violence in the episodes, a little fact checking showed that groups he is associated with have been busy hijacking and illegally intruding on peaceful meetings, harassing peace activists and making at least one death threat.

- October 5, 2003. After participating in a debate at UC Berkeley on Middle East relations, activist Allison Weir received a death threat from an individual identifying himself with Dafka.

-December 3, 2003. DAFKA follows and harasses traveling peace exhibition, Wheels of Justice; coordinates harassment campaign via internet site.


-June 5, 2004.
Progressive Jewish Bay Area Peace Demonstration Harassed by Anti-Palestinian Groups.

-November 19, 2004.
Code Pink Hayward meeting at local church hijacked by hate groups Dafka and Protest Warrior; verbal abuse and physical intimidation used against female peace activists.

In his website, www.dafka.org, Kaplan describes himself as chief editor, “investigative journalist, news bureau head, businessman and political activist.? In other media, however, he is listed with other titles, including “Contributing Editor? for David Horowitz’s www.frontpagemag.com website and West Coast Coordinator? of Students for Academic Freedom. A post by someone identifying himself as Lee Kaplan on santacruzindymedia.org stated “I do make a living doing research about the Middle East and am a professional journalist. People do drop a dime to read me....I have appeared internationally on radio as a commentator.? However, an extensive and exhaustive search yielded no information that could confirm Kaplan’s location, background, education, research and type of business. In addition, there no evidence was found that he had been published in print, as he insinuated.

Kaplan appears to be involved in a network of pro-militancy, pro-Israeli international public relations agents who advocate, among other things, for Israel to seize all lands held 2000 years ago and mandatory military or civil service for all residents of Israel . He’s also busy generating propaganda for a consortium of conservative websites with the aim of discrediting peace groups, activists, librarians and academics; recruiting college students in the Bay Area and Santa Cruz for his anti-Palestinian Peace Movement and academic censorship groups; and shaping U.S. policy on education through SAF and its associated groups.


What Does All of This Mean?


On a website found in Dafka’s Links section, Bernard Shapiro, head of the “Freeman Center for Strategic Studies,? describes a scheme for a worldwide public relations campaign with the ultimate aim of protecting the over six billion dollars Israel annually receives from the United States.

“I think it is time to take a second look at my concept but expand it to include radio, magazines, cable television (cable will accept this type of commercial) and newspapers. The ads should range from the very soft evocative travel type to some hard hitting but subtle political messages. Pretend that Israel is a corporation with a vast market in the United States. Receipts from that market top $6 Billion Dollars ( including US economic and military aid, UJA, Israel Bonds, JNF, plus all the other campaigns from Yeshivas to the Technion). What would you spend to protect a market of that magnitude? One half of one percent would equal $30 million. You can run for president with thirty million dollars. In a wild fantasy, lets say we have that much money. And let's say we hire a talented creative ad man to develop a multi-faceted, multi-media, and multi-year campaign to win the hearts and minds of the American people.?

Kaplan is a regular contributor to the Freeman website.

Like the “frontpagemag? operation, Students for Academic Freedom is one of several organizations under the leadership umbrella of David Horowitz . SAF doesn’t actually promote “freedom? as much as encouraging students to turn in their teachers for saying things they don’t like or giving them grades they don’t want. If this seems eerily similar to approaches used by fascist campaigns throughout the world, that’s because it is. This website includes organizing tools, blank complaint forms for students to pass out and an “Academic Bill of Rights,? which amounts to a plan for academic censorship. It also has a “National and State Legislation? section (on the left scroll-down menu) and files on teachers nationwide they deem to be “too liberal.? The homepage even includes an insult aimed the target audience --- a graphic of the “hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, speak-no-evil? monkeys, traditionally a representation of people who want to ignore reality.

Kaplan has not been content to simply recruit for members in our community; he has also used his platform to attack local politicians and activists who advocate for peace. Scott Kennedy, outgoing Santa Cruz mayor who signed the trailblazing City of Santa Cruz’s proclamation against the Iraq War, is one person Kaplan targeted for attacks on his website. Referring to the Resource Center for Nonviolence and Kennedy, Kaplan writes,

“..the ultimate in gall is that Scott likes to invoke the teachings of non-violence and tolerance of Martin Luther King. Would that Dr. King was still alive, he'd probably abandon non-violence for a moment and chuck ol' Scott upside the head. ....It is high time the Santa Cruz community recognize the hypocrisy of a center that is really a mouthpiece for Arab anti-Semitism and violence against Jews in the Middle East. Scott is an elected City Councilman there. When his term is up, I'm sure the majority of people who reside in Santa Cruz will turn him out. Perhaps this commentary can inform enough of them to do so.?

With this veiled threat by Kaplan, one is left to wonder whether or not his remarks about Kennedy had any influence on his recent defeat in the City Council race.

The Dafka website, which roughly translated means, “In your face!? in Hebrew, has an editorial voice much like Kaplan’s and Horowitz’s other projects. They vociferously attack any organization or individual that dares question the United States’ and Israel’s policies. Kaplan and Horowitz prefer to use semantic attacks against those they seek to silence with meaningless phrases meant to squelch all forms of discussion. An example of such a phrase is “stand with Israel.? Although the phrase conjures up a strong images of loyalty, what does it really mean? It insinuates, much like the phrase “support our troops,? that if someone doesn’t go along with what the author is advocating, then he somehow does not “stand with Israel,? or does not “support our troops.? Whenever someone challenges something Kaplan or Horowitz says, their stock reply is “Anti-Semitism!? This couldn’t be more ridiculous since they save their most vicious attacks for other Jews involved in the peace process and for Arabs, who are also by definition a Semitic people.

Lee Kaplan, like anyone else, has his right to free speech. What seems to be less clear, especially in the way Community Television is run, is how people are accountable for what they broadcast. As it stands now, only a producer can allow people access to past episodes of Club Cruz. One has to question if that makes an entity responsible for the content of their broadcasts, especially when, in the case of former mayor Scott Kennedy, Club Cruz broadcasts occur during City Council meetings.

Clearly, Lee Kaplan and his associates have an agenda: attack and discredit any entity that might lead to a slowing of money flowing into Israel. Judging by their slick websites and the many public relations experts employed, it is also a well-funded one. When community budgets are being slashed and local resources are drying up, how fair is it to allow a non-Santa Cruz County resident to broadcast his infomercials for free at the community’s expense? Under the current structure of Community T.V., Becky Johnson, producer of Club Cruz, is the only person accountable to the public for the content of the show. She is listed under Dafka’s website as a member and UCSC coordinator for Dafka; her email is listed as becky_johnson@sbcglobal.net. An alternative email address she listed on the Santa Cruz Indymedia site is becky_johnson222@hotmail.com.

In many of the websites associated with Kaplan, supporters are urged to inundate public officials, regulatory agencies and the media with their messages. Perhaps all those people Kaplan has been attacking really do have something to learn from him.


For Further Reading:

Background Information:

Distorting U.S. Foreign Policy: The Israel Lobby and American Power

The Men From JINSA and CSP

The Pro-Israel Lobby

The Israel Lobby and The Left: Uneasy Questions

A Selection of Chomsky Posts

Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong Voice

Subpeonas issued for officials of pro-Israeli lobby group


Mainline Protestants Challenge Israel Lobby

A Strange Freedom: Jewish and Christian Fundamentalism

 
 


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Comments

Reposted on Indybay

Free Will Wallace, nice job exposing Becky Johnson, Club Cruz, Lee Kaplan, Dafka, and linking them with David Horowitz, FrontPageMag, Students for Academic Freedom, Protest Warrior, and the vast network of Anti-Palestinian Groups; Zionists.

This article has been reposted on Indybay.
www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1710529.php

Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

agreed. thank you! thank you! thank you! These people need to be exposed. Kudos on a well-researched, timely article.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Please watch Club Cruz every Tuesday and Thursday at 7:00PM on Channel 27 on the Comcast cable network in Santa Cruz County. Those wishing to order back copies of my past shows may do so for $19.95 each. Please indicate the date the show aired, the Host, the name of the guest and topic. Please write me at my above (current) e-mail address if you wish to obtain such a copy.

I have produced over 240 shows in the past 9 years. Lee Kaplan has appeared as a guest, a co-host, or a host on seven shows.

Please read my articles regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on the dafka website at www.dafka.org under the section entitled "Leftists Speak Out".
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Well, it's nice to see I'm having an effect....
First off, let's not call people who support the likes of Arafat and aid terrorists and sucide bombers (and are really antisemites wanting Jews removed from their homes in the Middle East) "peace advocates." "Peace advocates" don't advocate the dismantling of a democratic Jewish state or serve as human shields for the likes of Saddam Hussein. Nor do they lie like the author of the "expose" above.

As for my Arab guests on Club Cruz: Google Walid Shoebat and Nonie Darwish both. Walid was once a PLO terrorist who now supports Israel. Wallace is just some Bay Area wannabe revolutionary hack. Both guests represent good Arab-Americans who support the United States and democracy, something Mr. Wallace obviously hates. The Arabs Mr. Wallace supports steal foreign aid money from their own people and send thier children off as suicide bombers.

As for death threats made to Alison Weir: A total lie and fabrication. I read that canard on indymedia last year. The Berkeley PD has the message tape with the "death threat" and no where is DAFKA or myself mentioned. But then again, Wallace and his ilk in the ISM and PSM never did mind lying.."by any means necessary," they always say....DAFKA is nonviolent but we sure do scare the hell out of the phony peace activists and communists in the Bay Area.

'tis true that DAFKA exposes those of Jewish descent only who are now communists and anarchists
(or as Lenin called them "useful idiots") who try to use that ancestry to attack and try to dismantle Israel. Israel is a democracy with freedom for all religions. The PA's constitution says Islam is the national religion of Palestine.
Jews in Israel don't attack Arab Israelis, Arabs in the PA murder Jews and applaud it. Guess who the real apartheidists are?

What you call "harassing the Wheels of Justice Tour" was merely exposing them for the fraud they are: a front for the PLO. I'm proud I exposed how they intentionally lie their way on to campuses then tell lies to impressionable kids. Parents don't like their children indoctrinated by phony
"peace activists" that strive to keep the war roiling in the Middle east against Israel and the USA.

I'm not sure who from DAFKA attended any meeting at a church in Hayward, but if they did I salute them. Barbara Lubin who you mentioned in your article rioted and blocked entry to a speech by Binyamin Netanyahu in Berkeley. So I guess she can't take what she herself does.

If I cost Scott Kennedy the election (no kidding? he lost by 1/2%) then maybe it was because I got the truth out about the phony Center for Nonviolence that is a center for violence against Jews, Israelis and America in disguise and supports terrorists (Scott loved to visit ol'Yasser). The turkey deserved to go...

Your link explaining my "agenda" is to WMREA which is run by Saudi Arabia. And guess who finances all the PLO bullshit you guys spread like on Indymedia? Let's face it, you guys spend all your time roiling the war in the Middle East and
pushing for revolution against Israel's Jews and the US in Iraq. I'm proud that Club Cruz has exposed your baloney enough to make changes in Santa Cruz. You don't even help Palestinian Arabs, you keep them poor while enriching the thugs of the PLO.

Rest assured...there will be more to come...Tune in to Club Cruz and get the truth about those who talk peace but work to roil war. By the way, the article above just assured DAFKA lots of donations. Thanks so much....we are growing in the Bay Area and will do even more. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Remember to support Israel and the United States in the War On Terror. See y'all on Club Cruz! Next year we'll have a dynamite lineup.

This is so satisfying we are having an effect.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

If anyone wants to know the credibility of Wallace,
(he has none) he states he could not find any of my articles on Front Page Magazine. Thanks again, Wallace, for the plug that makes you looklike an idiot. Read my articles at:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14895
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan claims, "'tis true that DAFKA exposes those of Jewish descent only who are now communists and anarchists (or as Lenin called them "useful idiots") who try to use that ancestry to attack and try to dismantle Israel."

First, Lenin never called Jewish anarchists and communists useful idiots.

Becky Johnson asked me the other day, "Are you disputing my claim that leading Rabbis and leaders in the Israeli govt. are NOT openly calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people?"

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. There are many leaders who openly call for such things. But they don't just call for it, they are carrying it out. Sharon himself directed the roundup and murder of thousands of Palestinians at Sabra and Shatila. Unarmed prisoners executed in a stadium! Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan, Fuck your Zionist ideology of Jewish superiority, it is an ideology of active genocide.



How Israel Promotes Anti-Semitism (Part 1)

Letter on Israel from Becky Johnson and Response by Steve Argue.


Letter to Editor,

You have to go back and read your history books. Palestine was the
name the British gave to the mandate they took over (in typical
British imperial fashion) from the crumbling Ottoman Empire.
Palestinians at the time included everyone who lived there, including
the Jews. Palestine ceased to exist when Israel was formed in 1948.
The plan from the UN was to have the state of Palestine right next to
Israel. But all the Arab neighbors (and the Arab population within
the borders of the new state of Israel) rejected this two state
solution and responded by out and out war waged on the Israelis.

The Palestinians (Arabs who live or lived within the boundaries of
Israel) didn't even start to call themselves that until 1968--- twenty
years after the establishment of Israel. Basically the concept of
Palestine is a manufactured one to drum up support for these Arabs and
to decrease support for Israel by the claim that Israel is on THEIR
land.

Remember, the Arabs and muslims who did not flee in 1948, but
stayed in Israel have full citizenship, have freedom to practice their
religion, own property, vote, have representation in the Knesset, and
compose 18% of the population.

There is no Palestine. And there never was except as a British
invention.

---Becky Johnson

Editor responds:

Actually history is one of my strong points. You state that I need
to consult my history books, yet you make statements that are
inarguably historically incorrect. Palestine was in existence as a
recognized territory of the Ottoman Empire long before British control
and even before the beginnings of Jewish colonization by the Zionist
movement.

These inhabitants of the region also had Arab nationalist
sentiments that opposed the control of the Ottoman Empire before the
creation of the Zionist State and have since opposed many of the U.S.,
French, and British imposed kings, crown princes, emirs, sheiks, etc.
that Zionists like to claim represent the aspirations of the Arab
people.

Your attempt to deny a people of even the name of their homeland is
consistent with an ideology that denies an entire people of the right
to their homeland. The fact that bloody repression and horrible
discrimination has driven the majority of Palestinians from large
parts of their homeland without the right of return is not enough.
The Zionist movement wants to wipe away the rightful name of the land
they have conquered by re-writing history and denying there ever was a
Palestine.

From its beginnings in the eighteen hundreds the Zionist movement
had little concern for the Arab inhabitants of the Palestinian land
they would settle. Instead they appealed to imperialist powers as
potential allies against the Arab people in setting up their Zionist
state. For example Zionist leader T. Herzl stated around 1897: "If
his majesty the Sultan were to give us Palestine, we could undertake
to regulate Turkey's finances. For Europe, we would constitute a
bulwark against Asia down there; we would be the advance post of
civilization against barbarism. As a neutral state, we would remain
in constant touch with all of Europe, which would guarantee our
existence" (from Rodinson, "Israel a Colonial Settler State?").

By being neutral Herzl is obviously referring to the Zionist
dealings with powers of Europe and not to the colonial "barbarians"
already in and around the land he would settle and conquer.

An Arab leader in Jerusalem named Nassif Bey al-Khalidi who tried
unsuccessfully to work out an agreement between Arabs and the Zionist
movement warned the Zionists with the following statement, "Be very
careful, Messieurs Zionists, governments disappear, but peoples
remain. The Jewish immigrants came to Palestine believing it to be a
desolate, sparsely inhabited country. They were too busy with their
own business and too ignorant of Arabic to notice what was going on
around them. Since it was the Turks who ruled Palestine, they turned
all their attention toward the Turks. This did not make them popular
with the Arabs" (from Neville Mandel, "Chapters of Arab-Jewish
Diplomacy 1918-1922").

The Jewish immigrants never became integrated in any way with the
native Arab population. This was true economically, politically,
socially, and linguistically. These Jewish immigrants were so
separate from the Palestinian people that they were only Palestinian
to the extent that they were physically living in Palestine.

It took the weakening of the Sultan during the First World War for
Europe (specifically England) to move in and grant the colonial
framework for Jewish colonization that aimed itself at the goal of an
exclusively Jewish state. This framework was set forth in a British
political charter in November 1917 called the Balfour Declaration
which stated, "His Majesty's government views with favor the
establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."

Within this framework an exclusive Jewish state was the stated goal
of all but a small minority in the Zionist movement, a goal that
obviously would be at the expense of the Arab people already living in
Palestine. In order to placate the Palestinians, however, the Balfour
declaration stated, "it should be clearly understood that nothing
should be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of
the non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

While Britain was trying to placate the Arabs Zionist leader
Jabotinsky was very clear on Zionist intentions stating in 1923 in his
Book the "Iron Wall", "There can be no discussion of voluntary
reconciliation between us and the Arabs, not now, and not in the
foreseeable future. All well meaning people, with the exception of
those blind from birth, understood long ago the complete impossibility
of arriving at a voluntary agreement with the Arabs of Palestine for
the transformation of Palestine from an Arab country to a country with
a Jewish majority. Each of you has some understanding of the history
of colonization. Try to find even one example when the colonization
took place with the agreement of the native population."

In understanding the existence of a Palestinian people and the
struggles yet to come Jabotinsky went on to state, "They have the
precise psychology we have. They look upon Palestine with the same
instinctive love and fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or
any Sioux upon his prairie. Each people will struggle against
colonizers until the last spark of hope that they can avoid the
dangers of conquest and colonization is extinguished. The
Palestinians will struggle in this way until there is hardly a spark
of hope."

Jabotinsky's view, and the policy that would later be carried out
against the Palestinians could not be made any clearer than his
following statement from the same writing: "We can not give any
compensation for Palestine, neither to the Palestinians nor to the
other Arabs. Therefore a voluntary agreement is inconceivable. All
colonization, even the most restricted, must continue in defiance of
the native population. Therefore it can continue and develop only
under the shield of force which comprises an Iron Wall through which
the Arab population can never break through. This is our Arab policy.
To formulate it any other way would be hypocrisy."

In explaining the differences between Zionist factions in dealing
with the Palestinians Jabotinsky stated, "Force must play its role -
with strength and without indulgence. In this, in this there are no
differences between our militarists and our vegetarians. One prefers
an Iron Wall of Jewish bayonets; the other prefers an Iron Wall of
English bayonets."

On these issues Rabbi Judas L. Magnes, President of the Hebrew
University Jerusalem wrote, "by definition a Jewish state means that
Jews will govern other people, other people who live in this Jewish
state…Jabotinsky knew this long ago. He was the prophet of the Jewish
state...In his early writings he said: 'Has a people ever been known
to give up its territory of its own volition? Likewise, the Arabs of
Palestine will not renounce their sovereignty without violence.'"

On the morals of Jabotinsky's plans and his desire to extinguish
all hopes of the Palestinian people he is as clear in the "Iron Wall"
as Hitler is of his intentions in "Mein Kampf" with Jabotinsky
stating: "To the hackneyed reproach that this point of view is
unethical, I answer 'absolutely untrue.' This is our ethic. There is
no other ethic. As long as there is the faintest hope for the Arabs
to impede us they will not sell these hopes - not for any sweet word
nor for any tasty morsel, because this is not a rabble but a people, a
living people. And no people makes such enormous concessions on such
fateful questions, except when there is no hope left, until we have
removed every opening visible in the Iron Wall."

In 1940 Jabotinsky states in "The Jewish War Front": "Since we have
the moral authority for calmly envisaging the exodus of the Arabs, we
need not regard the possible departure of 900,000 with dismay. Herr
Hitler has recently been enhancing the popularity of population
transfer."

While the Arabs of Palestine were extremely tolerant of the
Zionists who were moving in to take their land and their hopes the
Zionist movement was never interested in forming any sort of alliance
with the Arab people. Instead the Zionist movement from its inception
was openly anti-Arab and pro-imperialist, even though those same
imperial powers were the same ones who were carrying out pogroms
against the Jews in the ghettos across Europe. This pro-imperialist
policy included close relations with the pogromist leaders of
anti-Semitic Czarist Russia who murdered tens of thousands of Jews,
and later Zionist support and deals that aided the fascist death camps
of Nazi Germany.

Jews, in fact, are victims of Zionism along side Arabs. From the
beginning of Hitler's seizure of power in 1933 the Zionist movement
lent their support to the Nazis, support which lasted until at least
1944 when they aided Hitler's "final solution" in Hungary killing
800,000 Jews. On the surface the idea of Zionist relations with the
Nazis may sound illogical and seem made up. Those relations, however,
are well documented.

Hitler seized power in 1933 with a clear fascistic program that
called for the annihilation of all socialists, communists, labor
leaders, and Jews. Despite this fact the Zionist Federation of
Germany sent the Nazi Party a memorandum on June 21, 1933 stating: "…a
rebirth of national life such as is occurring in German life … must
also take place in the Jewish national group. On the foundation of
the new [Nazi] state, which has established itself on the principle of
race, we wish to fit our community into the total structure so that
for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the
Fatherland is possible…." (Brenner, Zionism, pg. 48).

The policy of supporting Hitler was later upheld at the World
Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 where a motion to take action
against Hitler was defeated 240 to 43. Thus the Jewish boycott of the
German economy at a time of economic weakness and vulnerability was
broken with the World Zionist Organization's Anglo Palestine Bank
resuming trade. In fact the World Zionist Organization became the
principal distributors of Nazi goods in Northern Europe and the Middle
East.

Feivel Polkes was a member of Zionist leader Jabotinsky's Haganah
militia. He was sent by Jabotinsky to Berlin to inform Nazi leader
Adolf Eichman of his intention to spy for the S.S. in exchange for the
release of the money of German Jews for use on the Zionist project.
Zionist Feivel told Nazi Eichman, "Jewish Nationalist Circles are very
pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the
Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that
in the foreseeable future the Jews would reckon upon numerical
superiority over the Arabs" (from Brenner, "Zionism" pg. 99).

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's minister of propaganda, felt so fond of
the Zionist movement and their close working relations that he wrote a
12 part report in Der Angriff (The Assault) praising the Zionist
movement and ordered a medallion struck with a swastika on one side
and the Zionist Star of David on the other.

Collaboration included an agreement in Hungary between Zionist
agent Dr. Rudolph Kastner and Nazi leader Adolph Eichman. Under the
1944 agreement the Nazis would murder 800,000 Hungarian Jews without
Zionist interference and with complete silence from the Zionist
movement. In exchange 600 prominent Jews would be freed from Hungary.
The Nazis then opened up a Rescue Department in Hungary headed by
Kastner. These facts were exposed by a survivor named Malchiel
Greenwald who was subsequently sued by the Israeli government, sued by
the same leaders that had fashioned the deal made by Kastner in the
first place.

Kastner's collaboration with the Nazis was confirmed with the
Israeli court stating, "The sacrifice of the majority of the Jews, in
order to rescue the prominents was the basic element in the agreement
between Kastner and the Nazis. This agreement fixed the division of
the nation into two unequal camps, a small fragment of prominents,
whom the Nazis promised Kastner to save, on the one hand, and the
majority of Hungarian Jews whom the Nazis designated for death, on the
other hand." (Judgment given on June 22, 1955, Protocol of Criminal
Case 124/53 in District Court, Jerusalem)

The Zionists subsequently ignored a plan drawn up by the resistance
that could have saved many, if not most, of Hungary's Jews. The
Zionist silence and lack of action against Nazi atrocities in fact
characterizes their stance throughout the entire holocaust. A plan
complete with maps was drawn up that would blow-up railroad tracks to
the death camps and crematoria and airdropped ammunition to the 80,000
Jews in Auschwitz. Part of the plan also included the parachuting of
saboteurs to blow up the Auschwitz facility that was murdering 13,000
people a day. Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting
the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they
could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations.
Likewise Great Britain and the United States could have carried out
the proposed measures as well, but chose not to save the Jews and felt
no pressure from the silent Zionist movement to do so.

This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against
Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message
to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews
from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death
by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to
the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men,
infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you,
our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you
ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of
this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching
now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of
thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their
destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty.
Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold
bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with
folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the
murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel,
are you insane?" (From Shoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")

The Zionists also fought against the immigration of Jews to other
countries where they could escape extermination. Explaining their
policy of pressuring Great Britain and the United States not to adopt
immigration policies that would have saved the lives of Jews Zionist
leader Ben Gurion stated in 1938: "If I knew that it would be possible
to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England
and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I
would opt for the second option" (from Brenner, "Zionism", pg. 149).

The ability of the Zionist movement to sacrifice the lives of
millions of Jews for the settling of Palestine had a consistent inner
logic. That logic speaks volumes. While some of the first victims of
these Zionist madmen were the Jewish people, the Palestinians were
next. And today the continued Zionist mistreatment of the Palestinian
people is one of the biggest threats to the lives of Jewish people
because some of the Arab victims of Zionism now do not differentiate
between the crimes of Zionism and the Jewish people. In addition the
Israeli government aided in the formation of the anti-Semitic
organization Hamas and today uses their suicide bombings against
civilians as a way to gain sympathy and support in the Zionist war
against the Palestinian people (more on this later). Objectively the
Zionist capitalist state is, in fact, the common enemy of both Jews
and Arabs.

In the 1940s Jews were only one third of the population of
Palestine. The Arab majority had not yet been driven from their land.
The British, in considering their entire imperial interests in the
Middle East and their need for good relations with Arabs had
backtracked from their original support of a Jewish state in
Palestine. Thus the Zionist minority carried out a war of
independence against Britain in order to set up the Jewish state. The
Palestinian people, the majority of the population, were not consulted
by the Zionists on what kind of future they would like to have for
their homeland and had little involvement in the war although a few
did side with British forces.

After independence from the Britain in 1948 the Zionist state began
a massive expropriation of Palestinian land that has not ended. Becky
Johnson's claim that, "the Arabs and Muslims who did not flee in 1948,
but stayed in Israel have full citizenship, have freedom to practice
their religion, own property, vote, have representation in the
Knesset, and compose 18% of the population" is so utterly untrue as to
defy common sense. Besides defying the facts, which we shall
establish, I ask why most of an entire people would voluntarily flee
the land in which they had built flourishing towns, a rich
agriculture, and a vibrant cultural life with nowhere else to go? The
short answer is that they did not flee voluntarily. They had met the
"Jewish bayonets" of Zionist Jabotinsky's "Iron Wall". To deny this
fact comes in on the same level as those who deny the Holocaust of
Europe.

The humiliating conditions of the Palestinian people were recently
observed by former anti-Apartheid fighter Archbishop Desmond Tutu who
wrote: "I have been very deeply distressed by my visit to the Holy
Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in
South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of Palestinians at
checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young police
officers prevented us from moving about.

"On my visit to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican
bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to
Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security.
But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

"I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes,
now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek
(the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed
and said: 'Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home;
it is now occupied by Israeli Jews.'

"My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our
Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they
forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their
own history so soon?"

Although the Israeli government claims that Palestinians have the
right to own property, this is a lie. Ever since 1948 Palestinians in
Israel do not have the right to own land, because their land is often
confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. Water
rights have been systematically cut off and diverted away from
Palestinian lands and given to stolen Hebrew owned lands. Palestinian
laborers are then denied by law the right to work the Hebrew owned
agricultural lands, although they are sometimes illegally employed as
cheap labor with no labor rights.

Palestinians do not have the right to freely travel. Reminiscent
of chattel slavery, Palestinian families are often separated by
Israeli officials who commonly do not grant necessary permits for
Palestinians to enter neighborhoods or towns where wives, husbands, or
children live. In contrast the Hebrew population has full rights to
travel.

Palestinians often do not have the right to keep their own homes,
which are often confiscated or bulldozed. The bulldozing of houses is
a common punishment of families whose children are accused of throwing
stones at Israeli soldiers. Recently in Jenin houses were bulldozed
with people inside, an act that besides killing people also made an
estimated 4,000 people homeless.

Palestinians do not have the right to freedom of speech and
regularly face arrest, torture, and execution for their political
views. Even Hebrew speakers who support rights for Palestinians or an
end to Israeli wars have, at times, had their press shut down by the
Israeli government or had their demonstrations attacked and beaten by
Israeli soldiers.

Palestinians do not have the same right to an education as Hebrew
speaking people based on the fact that higher education is paid for
through the forced military inscription of Hebrew speakers while
Palestinians are excluded from the military. It would in fact make no
sense for the Zionists to allow Palestinians into their military since
military humiliation, brutality, and outright terror against
Palestinians is a part of every day duty for an Israeli soldier.
Likewise few blacks served in the Apartheid military of South Africa.

Those Palestinians that are then driven out of what was once
Palestine usually are not allowed to return, while Jews who have never
set foot in Israel are granted automatic citizenship (with the
exception of two Jewish supporters of Palestinians named Ralph
Shoenman and Mya Shone who have the honor of not being allowed into
Israel because of their writings). Those Palestinians that are forced
from Israel are often bombed by Israel in their refugee camps or
massacred in other ways. In the 1982 case of the Sabra and Chatila
refugee camps in Lebanon, Palestinians were rounded up and
systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops and
their Phalangist Militia allies.

As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on
the Israeli governments war crimes, "The Lebanese forces militia
[Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the
entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth.
The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a
Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to
this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in
front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the
women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting,
'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women
and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There
were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us.
I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months
pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade.
There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the
Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to
another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp
and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying
'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But
we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us
to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4
PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said
in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left,
that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with
tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps
and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as
it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very
nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And
there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married.
I never saw my husband again."

Sabra and Shatila are only one of the massacres of people done by
the Israeli government in the past 54 years of Israeli occupation of
Palestinian land. Today all of the Palestinian towns of historic
Palestine are either occupied by Israeli troops who are killing people
or surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks who are poised to attack.
While Israeli troops are claiming that they are only killing
combatants Human Rights Watch has documented the following crimes in
Jenin alone: murders of civilians including children, the old, and the
disabled; summary executions; the bulldozing of houses with people in
them; and the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields.
The cities of Ramallah and Jenin have been laid to waste by the
Zionists just as the Nazis smashed the towns of Guarnica and Lidice in
the name of collective punishment. Likewise the heroic resistance of
Palestinian fighters in the face of superior military force is
reminiscent of the Jewish fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto and Vilna.

The Israeli offensive will not stop those willing to do suicide
missions against civilians, attacks that are futile attempts to combat
the genocide Palestinians face. The Israeli offensive does the
opposite in deepening the conditions that created suicide bombers in
the first place. The anger created is by escalated Israeli murder is
actually more likely to increase the number tragic of attacks on
Hebrew civilians. At the same time Israel has not targeted the main
base of the suicide bombers, Gaza, where Hamas is heavily organized.
In fact, the murderous Israeli repression really isn't meant to stop
attacks on Hebrew civilians because these bombings by Hamas actually
play right into the Zionist government's aims and objectives in
pushing for a final solution against the Palestinian people and the
Palestinian Authority who the Israeli government consistently blame
for the attacks by Hamas.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

How Israel Promotes Anti-Semitism, A Response To Becky Johnson (Part 2)

Hamas is an anti-Semitic fundamentalist religious organization that
killed 150 Israeli civilians through suicide bombings between 1994 and
1998 alone. From its beginnings as the Mujama in the 1970s to this
day Hamas does not face the same kind of repression as any other
Palestinian group. In addition Hamas reportedly receives $28 million
dollars a year from another key U.S. ally in the region, Saudi Arabia.

The U.S. and the Saudi Arabian monarchy work together closely to
systematically loot Saudi Arabia's oil resources for the profits of
U.S. oil monopolies while the vast majority of the Saudi people live
in poverty. In addition the U.S., Saudi Arabia, and Hamas worked
together closely in the U.S. war drive to destroy the left progressive
PDPA government that held power in Afghanistan from 1978 to 1992.
This was a war where the U.S. government and Saudi Arabia gave
billions of dollars of military aid to Osama Bin Laden and the Islamic
fundamentalists of the Mujahedin who were waging a holy war against
the advances in women's rights, including women's literacy, that were
occurring under the PDPA government. Tactics of the Mujahedin
included throwing acid in the faces of women liberated from the veil
and murdering women for teaching little girls how to read and write.
Fearing a Mujahedin government right on its border and defending the
PDPA government from U.S. aggression the Soviet Union sent troops into
Afghanistan in 1979. Although these Soviet troops were invited by the
Afghan PDPA U.S. propaganda called this a Soviet invasion.

An estimated 100,000 of the Islamic fundamentalists who fought in
Afghanistan were recruited by the CIA outside of Afghanistan. Hamas
participated in this activity. As John Cooley from ABC news pointed
out on March 13th, 1996 in the International Herald Tribune: "A key
Hamas organizer was Abdallah Azzam. He was a tough, brilliant and
charismatic Palestinian from Jordan. He supervised training for the
CIA's Afghan guerrillas in Peshawar, Pakistan, where a car bomb killed
him in 1989. In the earlier 1980s he toured the United States,
recruiting Arab-Americans for the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan."

Just as the United States used Hamas against the Afghani people and
the leftist PDPA government, Israel has used the religious
fundamentalists of Hamas as a club against the socialist and secular
nationalist movements in Palestine that Hamas has violently opposed.
It is those secular and socialist movements that Israel has seen as
more of a threat in terms of winning the masses of people, including
Hebrew speakers, over to positions of sympathy and solidarity with the
Palestinians. Hamas's suicide bombers against civilians instead serve
Zionist interests in driving a larger wedge between Palestinians and
Hebrew speakers, people who will need to unite against their common
oppressor and killer, the Israeli Zionist government.

Early Israeli support for Hamas included in 1978 the granting of
Mujama charitable status in Gaza while other organizations, especially
political organizations as Mujama was, could not get such status. In
1979 Israeli collusion with the Mujama movement set up the Islamic
University of Gaza whose anti-PLO and anti-socialist slogan was: "How
can uncovered women and men with Beatle haircuts liberate our holy
places?" Students who did not tow the Islamic line were disciplined
through brutal beatings and sometimes had acid thrown in their faces.
In addition Mujama mobs were allowed to violently attack and burn
down PLO controlled institutions at a time when other street
demonstrations were not allowed or tightly controlled by the Israeli
authorities.

In 1979 the Mujama movement burned the Palestinian Red Crescent
Society's (PRC) building to the ground. In response the PRC issued
the following statement, "The tacit approval of the authorities, if
not their actual connivance in what happened, was displayed in their
attitude of non-interference. While they usually display great
alertness to combating even peaceful demonstrations of young students
within schools, here they stood indifferently watching a violently
destructive demonstration march to its objectives."

In 1988 Hamas was formed out of Mujama. While PLO supporters were
organizing mass demonstrations in the streets Hamas was instead
focusing on shooting Israeli soldiers. Despite this fact Hamas had
top-level meetings with the Israeli government while that same
government would not even meet with the PLO. Milton Edwards in
"Islamic Politics In Palestine" noted the relationship: "The
relationship between Hamas and the Israeli authorities was, however,
at the strongest during the second year of the Intifada. The Israelis
had been quick to extend legitimacy status to Hamas in an attempt to
marginalize the PLO. Leaders of Hamas were regularly filmed at
meetings with top-level Israeli officials and the message the Israelis
were sending out was that they regarded Hamas as the type of people
with whom they could work…

"In addition the Israelis continued turning a blind eye to large
amounts of money coming into the country destined for Hamas coffers,
while at the same time stopping the flow of PLO funds in support of
the Intifada."

In 1994 Hamas began its indiscriminate attacks on Hebrew speaking
people through suicide bombings. Those suicide bombings had been
stepped up by Hamas in the beginnings of the Intifada 2 uprising in
September 2000, but then ended due to an agreement between Arafat's
Palestinian Authority and Hamas. While this agreement was in effect
world attention became focused on the gunning down of Palestinian
children by Israeli sharp shooters on the West Bank. For the Zionist
government this was becoming a public relations disaster.

Israeli Prime Minister Sharon needed a new provocation he could use
as propaganda to escalate the war against the Palestinian people and
the Palestinian Authority (P.A.). To create this provocation he took
action to end the truce between the P.A. and Hamas on ending the
suicide bombings of civilians. On November 23rd Israeli security
forces assassinated Hamas leader Mahmud Abu Hunud. On November 25th,
2001 right-wing Israeli journalist Alex Fishman accurately observed in
the "Yediot Achronot": "Whoever gave the green light to this act of
liquidation knew full well that he is thereby shattering in one blow
the gentleman's agreement between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority;
under that agreement, Hamas was to avoid in the near future suicide
bombings inside the Green Line."

Of course no one but Sharon could have given the green light for
such an important operation. Sharon's provocation against the Hamas
anti-Semites had its intended affect. Within days Hamas resumed
attacks against Israeli civilians. In March a Hamas bomber killed 25
civilians in the Passover attack that was then used by Sharon as his
excuse to attack the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority
while leaving the Hamas stronghold of Gaza untouched.

The U.S. government's massive military support to the Zionist State
and, to a lesser extent to the repressive Saudi Arabian monarchy is
responsible for the bloodshed in Palestine. The racist state of
Israel currently receives 300,000 dollars per hour in U.S. military
and economic aid. The F-16 bombers, Apache and Cobra helicopters used
in the latest attacks are just some of the weapons used to kill
Palestinians that are made in the United States.

Socialists stand for an end to U.S. military aid to Israel and all
of the crowned princes, sheiks, emirs, and Islamic fanatics of the
Middle East. We understand that these U.S. policies are the policies
of both the Democrat and Republican Parties. Imperialist policy isn't
the result of some misunderstanding by these parties of the wealthy.
Instead the repressive and genocidal policies of U.S. imperialism flow
from the drive for profits by the rapacious U.S. capitalists that rule
America and much of the world. From this understanding socialists
know that the only way we will get a just foreign policy, fair
treatment of workers and the poor, and sound ecological policies is
through a socialist revolution in the United States.

---Steve Argue, for Liberation News
 

Lee Kaplan at Dafka is a LEFTIST

SO IS THE FREEMAN CENTER, DAVID HOROWITZ, AND THE OTHERS MENTIONED...BUT WATCH OUT FOR ARIEL NATAN PASKO, THE KAHANE PEOPLE QUIVER WHEN HIS NAME IS MENTIONED !!!
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue's strong point is history???? LOLOLOL

Steven Argue is a gardener for his livelihood. He thinks he's a member of the proletariat and endorses
revolution against capitalist society. Gimme a brak, Steven, do you think all the phony Arab hsitory you repeat from the propaganda ministries in Ramallah really impresses anyone but the radical wannabe beach revolutionaries in Santa Cruz? Hmmmm..I love this quote:

"Socialists stand for an end to U.S. military aid to Israel and all
of the crowned princes, sheiks, emirs, and Islamic fanatics of the
Middle East. We understand that these U.S. policies are the policies
of both the Democrat and Republican Parties. Imperialist policy isn't
the result of some misunderstanding by these parties of the wealthy.
Instead the repressive and genocidal policies of U.S. imperialism flow
from the drive for profits by the rapacious U.S. capitalists that rule
America and much of the world. From this understanding socialists
know that the only way we will get a just foreign policy, fair
treatment of workers and the poor, and sound ecological policies is
through a socialist revolution in the United States."...Wow, sounds almost like Pravda in the 1970's doesnt it? The socialist utopia that was the Soviet Union certainly had ecological balance like at Chernobyl. Maybe Steve was one of the mutants born nearby.

How bout this one:

"Of course no one but Sharon could have given the green light for
such an important operation. Sharon's provocation against the Hamas
anti-Semites had its intended affect. Within days Hamas resumed
attacks against Israeli civilians. In March a Hamas bomber killed 25
civilians in the Passover attack that was then used by Sharon as his
excuse to attack the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority
while leaving the Hamas stronghold of Gaza untouched."

There were 31 people murdered in Netanya, many Holocaust survivors. The bomber came from Jenin where the bomb factories were. If Sharon invaded Gaza ol' St4eve the gardener would call it collective punishment...

You see guys,Steven is a gardener, makes low wages, is kind of ugly and not too bright. He thinks he's one of the oppressed in a capitalist society so is a revolutioanry in teh luxury beachfront community of Santa Cruz...I think his type is called LOSER. Anyone who'd take him seriously is in need of a brain transplant. And he doesn't give a fig about poor Arabs overseas, he
has written some of the most vile antisemitic crap[ abpout Jews one can imagine. You know, us rich Jews who run the world that communists like him are going to overcome...sort of like Josef Stalin...

This website really is funny, y'know...esepcially the part about claiming it prints the truth. Be sure and watch Club Cruz as we expose more of Santa Cruz's wackadoodles in Never Never Land. And remember to support our troops and democracy in the war on terror. Don't listen to this clown who makes his living pulling weeds and thinks of himself as a revolutionary worker...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Ouch! Sorry for the typos...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Hey, Gang, how about a show where we expose the silly wannabe revolutionaries in Santa Cruz...I guess we cost Scott Kennedy the election. How about a Steve Argue show? How about a Barbara Lubin Show...It'll be easy to show all the lies and carryings on.

Becks, whaddya say????
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

There won't be a next Club Cruz Show! You fool. a movement is buliding to oust your stupid ass, from the air Lee...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Wanna bet? I love it the way you human rights bullshit artisits try to silence the opposition just like the dictators you so admire and work for.

Ain't gonna work though...the only movement you're building is in your bowels..you know what that means...you're full of shit. Hey. Lee! Keep up the good work and clean up Santa Cruz!
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I'd rather be a gardener than an agent of the Israeli State.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

You couldn't be an agent of the Israeli state...not
bright enough or honest enough.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I noticed a typo in your response my dear agents Kaplan and Johnson. You must have meant that Steve Argue is not "dishonest enough" to do your job, for we all know that dishonesty is your only qualification my dear agents.

As for sniffing manure, I would find manure much more pleasant than your attempts to justify mass murder by the Zionist Israeli state through lies and arguments of the supposed superiority of Jews over Palestinians.

Yet to say such things you retort I am an anti-Semite just as a Nazi would argue that a defense of Jews was anti-German. Your arguments are so simplistic, racist, and stupid my dear agents that any thinking person can see right through them. Yet you dare claim that I am the stupid one.

You have yet to refute one historic fact I have written with anything that is true.

Becky Johnson wrote three years ago:

Steve Argue,

In your letter to Sen. Kline you wrote:
twincities.indymedia.org/newswire/rate/5256

"...and that there will not be peace for either the Palestinian or the Hebrew speaking population until the Israeli state is abolished and in its place a democratic secular Palestine is built with a separation of church and state where the civil rights of all nationalities are guaranteed."

I am appalled that you are advocating the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel. This is a horrendous idea which I'm sure, the Nazi party would have applauded.

You are misguided if you think that a secular democratic state with civil rights will replace Israel.
Can you give me a single example of an Arab/Muslim country that is a secular democracy with separation of church and state and where civil rights of all nationalities are guaranteed?

No!! Yet you advocate dismantling a country that does allow religious freedom, civil rights for all of its population whether they are citizens or not, women's rights, gay rights, a representative democracy with regular elections.

You advocate stopping US aid to Israel, but you still have not answered whether you also advocate breaking the peace treaty Israel has with Egypt to do this.

What is your agenda? Do you want peace in the mideast for Jews and Palestinians? Or do you want to eliminate the Jewish people like the Nazis tried to do in Germany in World War II? I assume you don't mean the latter, but the policies you are pushing for just might have that effect. Get a clue!!

--- Becky Johnson


Dear Becky Johnson,

Your ideas and ignorance are one hundred percent racist. The idea that Arabs and Muslims can’t run their own countries in a pluralistic manner where the rights of Jews, Christians, and others are respected flies in the face of history.

While Europe was suffering under the theocratic tyranny of Christianity during the dark ages; science and freedom of religion were flourishing in the Arab world. The idea that the conquering colonial Zionists from Europe and the U.S. who do not even pretend to give equal rights to the original inhabitants of the land are somehow more enlightened when it comes to civil rights, smacks of the most ugly kind of racism.

No, the bloody Christian crusades of old did not bring enlightenment, nor does the propping up of the theocratic and racist Zionist state with massive support from U.S. imperialism. To the contrary, Israel’s wars against the Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, and Egyptian people are, and have been, some of the biggest atrocities taking place in the Mid East.

I am an ardent opponent of anti-Semitism. In doing so I recognize that the atrocities of Zionism and U.S. imperialism are today the single largest promoter of anti-Semitism in the world, just as the crimes of U.S. imperialism are the biggest promoter of terrorist attacks against American civilians. When the victims of Zionism and U.S. imperialism lash out at the wrong enemy, this should not cause us to unite behind those whose injustice caused people to lash out in the first place.

This is what you are doing Becky, and you are doing it in the same racist manner as the murderous Israeli state, arguing that Arabs are not fit to rule and blaming Palestinians as a whole for attacks on civilians. In addition you do not differentiate between the brutal racist terror of the Israeli occupation army and the right of the Palestinian people to defend themselves from that terror with whatever meager arms they can gather.

The Palestinian people; walled off, denied basic human rights, starved, tortured, and facing mass murder; face the same situation as Jews did in the ghettos of Europe under the Third Reich, minus the gas chambers and crematoria that came later. The Zionist government instead prefers to drive the majority of Palestinians from their homeland through violence and never allow them the right to return while allowing Jews from everywhere to immigrate.

Becky, you as a Zionist have no right to mention the holocaust of the Third Reich, not just because Zionism is very similar to Nazism, but because the Zionist movement supported Hitler. (For documentation of these facts see the following response to another Becky Johnson letter.) Had the Zionist movement not lobbied the British and U.S. governments against the immigration of Jews so that they would be forced to go to Palestine, had they not kept quiet on the Third Reich’s atrocities when they knew full well what was going on, had they not opposed the bombing of the gas chambers and crematoria that could have stopped the death factories, and had they not given overt support to Hitler, many more Jews would have survived the holocaust of the Third Reich.

Racist Israel would not exist without U.S. support. Likewise the most oppressive and anti-worker Arab regimes of the region are propped up, and in many cases were put in power by, U.S., French, and British imperialism. To blame the Arab people for the governments imposed on them by imperialism is like blaming slaves for their brutal masters.

You speak of women’s rights in Near East countries. The 1978 Afghani revolution led by the PDPA was made primarily to promote women’s rights. Yet U.S. imperialism supplied billions of dollars in military aid to the misogynists of the Mujahideen and recruited 100,000 foreign religious fanatics to destroy that revolution. Besides death and destruction, the offspring of this U.S. crime against humanity was the clerical fascist regime of the Taliban. Now the U.S. has put the other warring factions of the misogynist Mujahideen back in power and as a result the horrible conditions caused by U.S. intervention persist.

Likewise, the capitalist counter-revolution that took place in the former Soviet Union has eroded the advanced state of women’s rights as well as healthcare, employment, and education that had been achieved in its Near East Republics during the Soviet era.

A similar situation is now faced by the women of Iraq that had gained an advanced status of equality under the secular Ba’ath regime. Women’s rights will surely suffer under a government made up of CIA stooges from the Iraqi National Congress and bought off Shi’ite and Kurdish leaders.

The fact that women’s rights advanced under Saddam Hussein is largely a result of the working class influence of the Iraqi Communist Party and its advocacy of a secular state. Just as the U.S. supported the Ba’ath Party when it was murdering Communists and union leaders, in fact supplying lists through the CIA, today the U.S. government militarily supports the repressive imperialist imposed Arab monarchies in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait who guarantee the profits of U.S. oil monopolies while their people live in poverty and women live as slaves.

Yes, I do advocate the total destruction and elimination of the Jewish State, just as I advocate the destruction of all Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, and Hindu governments. The American, French, and Russian revolutions were major advances in many ways, including the fact that they were decisive blows for the separation of church and state. Likewise the Chinese revolution ended feudal slavery in many forms. This included the Buddhist theocracy that enslaved the people of Tibet. That theocratic government declared that their peasant slaves, slaves who faced extreme exploitation, hunger, and torture under their rulers “enlightened? hands, were only paying for the bad karma of other lives and may be born in a better position in another life.

Likewise, in Palestine the Zionist state of Israel promotes the idea that it is written in biblical texts that Israel belongs to them. This fanatical and intolerant religious view is one of the excuses used deny the country’s original inhabitants their basic human rights, to murder them, and drive these Palestinian people from their homes.

Similarly the rightwing and pro-imperialist Hindu government of India organizes pogroms against Muslims as a tactic in keeping the working class and peasantry from uniting amongst them-selves to defeat the Indian capitalists and their government.

In Europe in the last century, the Jews became a target of violence by the ruling capitalists who saw in the large oppressed Jewish population a hotbed of socialist revolutionaries and a convenient scapegoat for the ills of capitalism.

Just as capitalist governments promote religion as a way to blind and opiate the people with lies, they also promote religious and ethnic divisions as a way to prevent the unity of those who may unite against them. Yet, against all odds, unite we must in order to achieve progress.

In 1945 Tito united the various ethnicities of Yugoslavia in a socialist revolution (all be it deformed by the Stalinist model) that threw the Nazi’s out of their country and ended ethnic conflict for many years. Likewise the socialist revolution that brings about a united democratic secular Palestine will have to unite Hebrew and Arabic speakers for the overthrow of the racist Zionist government of Israel and the overthrow of the repressive monarchy of Jordan. Such a revolution would be a major step towards breaking the back of U.S. imperialism in the Near East.

Becky you say to me, “You advocate stopping US aid to Israel, but you still have not answered whether you also advocate breaking the Peace treaty Israel has with Egypt to do this.? I do not control what treaties Israel will and will not break. Israel and Egypt are a boon for the U.S. war industry. While the U.S. arms the repressive governments of Israel and Egypt in the billions of dollars at U.S. taxpayer expense, this policy does nothing to promote peace. Nor is it meant to. Ending U.S. military funding for repressive capitalist governments around the world through socialist revolution in the United States is a cause to which I am dedicated.

As such, my voice is part of a rising chorus that says the racist violence, exploitation, and oppression against the Palestinian people must stop. We want to stop paying for it with our tax dollars, we want to stop paying for it with blood.

There were Trotskyists in the United States in the 1930s and 40s that stood alone against the Democrats, Republicans, Zionists, Communist Party USA, the American Nazi Party, and the fascist Silver Shirts in calling for letting Jewish refugees into the United States. I stand in that tradition, a tradition that organized the fight against the American Nazi Party in the Streets of New York, physically prevented the organization of the Silver Shirt fascists in Minneapolis, and organized workers in combative unions that won real gains through struggle with militant opposition to the bosses and their two parties (Democrats and Republicans). They did not cower in face of police violence and the false promises of Roosevelt or the Zionists. They did not beg for political rights and other gains for workers and the unemployed. Instead they told the truth. Becky Johnson, you could learn something from these revolutionary traditions rather than support a movement that causes so much pain and death for Palestinians and helped to murder over 6 million Jews with its support for Hitler.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan wrote, "And he [Steven Argue] doesn't give a fig about poor Arabs overseas, he has written some of the most vile antisemitic [sic] crap[ abpout [sic] Jews one can imagine. You know, us rich Jews who run the world that communists like him are going to overcome...sort of like Josef Stalin..."

Is this an example of the kind of honesty it takes to be an Israeli disinformation agent? I challenge you to find any writing, or even quote from me, that backs up this claim.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

It's amusing seeing "Will Wallace" (_Braveheart_, anyone?) cite Wikipedia's entry for "Semitic" in an attempt to distort the accepted meaning of "antisemitic" to also include "anti-Arab." The very same source makes it plain:

--- begin quote

Misnomer

The term has always referred to prejudice towards Jews alone, and not to other people who speak semitic languages (e.g., Arabs) and this has been the only use of this word for more than a century. In recent decades some people have argued that the term anti-Semitism should be extended to include prejudice against Arabs, since Arabic is a semitic language. However, this usage has not been widely adopted. In that there are few instances of prejudice against both Arabs and Jews to the exclusion of other races or nationalities, and in fact many more instances of antagonism between Jews and Arabs than of a specific bias against both groups together, there would seem to be little need for a word to describe such a prejudice, and to redefine 'antisemitism' would result in robbing the word of any usefulness.

Despite the use of the prefix "anti," the terms Semitic and Anti-Semitic are not antonyms. To avoid the confusion of the misnomer, many writers on the subject (such as Emil Fackenheim of the Hebrew University) now favor the unhyphenated term antisemitism.

--- end quote

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

So much for journalistic integrity.

@%<
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

you can complain about Will Wallace all you want and try to pick apart the article, but the fact remains that Will Wallace, SC Indymedia, and many other folks in this community are getting the true word out about Lee Kaplan, Becky Johnson, Club Cruz, and Dafka.

To Lee: If you consider this article good publicity, then you clearly show how sick your well-funded Zionist agenda is.

Thank you Will Wallace.
Please keep up the good work.
shalom.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Another definition of anti-Semitism that you will not find in the dictionary is one that defines the term as being opposed to the murder and humiliation of the Palestinian people as is carried out by the Israeli government. Yet that is the exact usage of the term by Lee Kaplan and Becky Johnson.

I agree that Will Wallace has made a mistake on this point as well, saying that the term should apply equally to anti-Jewish and anti-Arab hatred, but this to me is a question on which reasonable people can disagree.

As for Gehrig's assertion that anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim hatred are rarely wrapped together, I disagree. In xenophobic and racist America there are plenty of people today who think both that all Arabs are terrorists and that the Jews killed Jesus in addition to being the wealthy rulers of the world. It is unfortunate that Zionism works in opposition to the true opposition to anti-Semitism, those of us who see neither Arabs nor Jews as superior and oppose the idea of a Jewish state at the expense of the Arab people.
 

Steve, give us a break

Hey Steve, there's still some more webspace at indymedia! Why not paste in your college Ph.D. dissertation on why the zionists in the Colonialist, Fascist, Genocidal,Apartheid, Racist, Zionist State of Israel should be rounded up and gassed like the Nazis they are.

I'm sure everyone here wants to read another 120 pages of your "history" since you are so much smarter than all of us.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Becky says, "Steve, give us a break." A break for you and agent Kaplan?

O.K. Becky, here is a word of wisdom that is your chance at a break: I do not require you to read what I write. If, on the other hand, your commanding officer makes my writings a requirement then take it up with him/her.

Becky, if you don't like the spot you've landed in cyber space and how its space used to defend human rights, perhaps you should consider visiting a site more in league with your thinking like one set up by the State Department.

As for your intelligence level, Becky, I find it bizarre that you can say something as stupid as the: “Zionist State of Israel should be rounded up and gassed like the Nazis they are;? and then credit such an absurd thought to me.

Becky, you and your rightwing agenda have been discredited.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Hey, Steve;
You're on the losing side as usual and supporting those who support genocide. Youre also pretty dumb too. You use the owrd "genocide" over and over. Jsut what "genocide" ahve th Israelis done to the Arabs? The Arab population inside Israel and the territories has increase 400% since 1948. More than the Jews!!! Even in Israel. That's under Israeli rule. I guess that makes you full of shit as usual.

And let's see, the ol' Arabs are semites too, blah blah. The word Antisemitism was coined in Germany to mean Jews. The fact some new age politically correct dictionaries under pressure by arab lobby groups gave it a new meaning is about as credible as your "genocide" comments.

And, oh yeah, it's unfair to say the Arabs would
not let the Jews live among them in peace. Hey, Steve, you're a jerk!!! RIght now in the PA it's a death sentence to sell land to a Jew! If you really knew history, not what you read on your little commie hate Jew wannabe revolutioanry websites, you'd know Jews and Christians in Muslim lands are dhimmis and subject to presecution even today. Show me an Islamic country that is pluralistic and I'll show you some bullshit article on Indymedia divorced from reality. As Walid Shoebat, a Palestinian Arab himself who was once in the PLO admits: "if the Arabs got majority control in Israel they'd massacre all the Jews. I know this."

Steve, go pull some weeds, somethng you're intellectually capable of, not discussiing geopolitical history or politics. LOSER!!!

Tune in to Club Cruz as we expose more and more of these turkeys and the truth about the dictatorships they openly support while claiming they are for peace.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steve: The 2003 Hate Crime statistics show that for every four hate crimes committed against Arabs in the USA, there are 10 hate crimes committed against Jews. Antisemiticism is still a huge problem in the United States and your diatribes against the State of Israel could trigger actual, physical attacks on Jews in and outside of Israel by some individuals who are already prone to prejudice and violence.

(Like the KKK for instance)

Israel gets $3 billion a year in aid from the USA as one of the terms in the 1979 Peace Treaty with Egypt. Other terms of that agreement were that Israel give up 94% of the land it had conquered in the 1967 war including the oil-rich regions of the Sinai peninsula. (Israel has no oil).

Another provision of that treaty was that the USA would give Egypt $2 billion a year, just for not making war on Israel.

This peace treaty has brought us 25 years of peace. Now you and your "Peace" advocates want to tear it up?

But then you aren't exactly informing your readers of little "details" like the peace treaty Israel has with Jordan. Or of the 170,000 Palestinians who were repatriated after the 1948 war back into Israel as full citizens. Or that the tunnels Rachel Corrie was defending were being used to smuggle guns, bombs, and rockets into Gaza in order to kill as many Jews as possible. Or that a higher percentage of women and children are being murdered by the Palestinian groups you support than are being killed by the IDF.

Your secular democracy, which you want to impose on the people of Israel is a bunch of crap. All it will do is destroy the ONLY Jewish state in the entire world and replace it with just another Islamic dictatorship like the one Arafat recently modeled for all the world to see for the past decade.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Can Stee Argue run for mayor in Santa Cruz so Club Cruz can get him voted out also? We want to keep our record of getting morons voted out of the city consistent. Steve, go pick some weeds, ya loser..Anyone who would use words like "genocide" where there is none is simply not too bright.... ;-)
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I was proPalestinian until I watched the Club Cruz episode and did some investigating. Now I am proIsrael. I also learned the RCNV was indeed
supporting revolutionary movements in the guise of preserving human rights. I also voted against Scott Kennedy last time and am proud of it.

Thanks Becky, for your show and activism in our beautiful community.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee, your fooling noone, by repeatedly posting under psuedonyms. Please grow up you childish fool.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

expose a well-connected, well-funded zionist network and then the trolls come out the woodworks to call steve argue names and talk shit about Scott Kennedy and the RCNV. "I saw the Club Cruz episodes" is fooling nobody. the main thing to get out of these comments is that people are upset that a zionist network has been exposed. this is a very powerful article and should be taken seriously.
Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed (google it)
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

i did google it, just lee kapla, then I hit news... amazing. A bunch of links to front groups for the Israeli Mossad. Three articles down I found this little gem... "Not only did journalist Lee Kaplan martial eyewitness accounts of the episodes; he also produced photographs and, subsequently, a number of police reports...'

Now, just how did this fucker get his hands on "a number of police reports?" Call a spade a spade.
This guy is slime. Get him OFF the air in santa cruz.
 

Steve Argue is indeed a buffoon

Argue appears to not give two hoots about genocide's established definition.
And there are so many absurd mistakes -- or even outright lies -- in his historic narrative and overview of the human rights situation within Israel proper, like the claim that the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization, or that Arabs can't own land in Israel proper, or how he mustered the quote from Herzl around 1897 to try to support his contention that the Zionist movement "appealed to imperialist powers as
potential allies against the Arab people in setting up their Zionist state", or his claim that leading rabbis and secular leaders in the Israeli gov. are actually calling for the genocide of the Palestinians, whether publicly or privately, and even performing it. Particularly amusing is his contention that "Palestinians [in Israel] do not have the same right to an education as Hebrew speaking people based on the fact that higher education is paid for through the forced military inscription of Hebrew speakers while Palestinians are excluded from the military." -- which of course, is balloney, as anyone who has been to the Israeli colleges and universities and seen the scores of Arab Muslim and Christian students can attest. Not to mention the fact that Arabs may volunteer to serve in the IDF and some have indeed taken that route.

There are so many obvious lies being spouted by this Argue person, his musings aren't worthy of a thorough rebuttal. To do so would not only be a huge waste of time, it would also dignify a proven liar with serious debate. I feel Lee Kaplan is right in not treating Steve Argue in a civil manner.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Everything I posted is true. That is the only reason you can't rebut any of it Becky. As for your definition of genocide Becky, please don't claim that your made-up definition is what is generally accepted. The Israeli state carries out a conscious policy of murder and economic warfare as part of their drive toward the annihilation and scattering of Palestinian people. This is called genocide.

In addition my dear agent Becky, you should stop insulting us with a pen name misnomer like "critical thinker."
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"Not to mention the fact that Arabs may volunteer to serve in the IDF [thus giving them educational opportunities].." -Becky Johnson

Yes, a very few. There were Jews who became police for the Nazis as well.
 

The inflammatory buffoon is wrong on all counts (but one)

Well, this moonbat league member agrees some Arabs do volunteer for IDF service.

Guess this buffoon is too paranoid to believe it, but I'm not Becky Johnson nonetheless. (Though I'm almost certain he'll keep referring to me as Becky. Either that or he'll insist I'm Lee Kaplan.) Unlike Becky, I have been in Israel for decades and am speaking from first hand knowledge which puts to lie all the ludicrous claims this Argue clown has made and is standing by; I'm not even in the US as I'm typing this comment. Also, I have an excellent command of Hebrew which I doubt Becky has. I actually know a few Arabs and have seen Arab students and land owners within Israel proper. Moreover, Becky is Californian whereas I hail from the East coast and never lived in any West coast state.

As for Jewish Nazi police, what this sleazeball doesn't mention is that those Jews were coerced into that Kapo role either directly or indirectly, whereas the Arab IDF volunteers perform military service of their own volition.



Hey, Kaplan, keep pounding at this buffoon. You've done a terrific job at it!
 

Congratulations to Wallace and Argue!

Many thanks to both of you for sharing your well-researched articles. Together, they provide us with crucial information about fascist actions in our community and with the historical background to provide context.

Typically, one sign of a strong arguement is when your opponent(s) cannot seriously rebut your points and resort instead to childish name-calling.

Alternately, a slightly less-immature version of intellectual retreat is found in phrases like, "his musings aren't worthy of a thorough rebuttal." Such response might be justified in circumstances where your opponent is obviously just ranting and babbling, but is not justified (other than as a sign of defeat) when your opponent has offered an extensive and fairly well-researched argument.

Fascists hate honest scholarship, for fascism relies upon the maintenance of fear, lies and forgetfulness.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Agent Lee,

Everyone knows you continually post under the comments section under various names, not to "comment" about the article, but to continue your campaign of hate. All of your claims are ridiculous! The more you insult people like Steve, the more we are reminded of what a hero he really is.

Here is a quick review of all the groups/people Lee and his fellow agents have attacked (either directly or by using unethical scare tactics to frighten sensitive populations):

1. Teachers, k-12
2. Teachers, college
3. Gardeners(!!)
4. Older Jewish Americans who have either been through the Holocaust or had family members who went through it.
5. Liberal American Jews, who are the MAJORITY of American Jews
6. Arab Americans
7. Muslim Americans
8. Peace Groups -- many, many, many all over the U.S.
9. Quakers
10. Mennonites
11. Church of the Brethren
12. Church of Presbyterians
13. Tikkun
14. Gush Shalom
15. Mideast Children's Alliance
16. Democrats
17. Women's International League of Peace and Freedom
18. Peace and Freedom Party
19. John Kerry
20. A.N.S.W.E.R.
21. Michael Moore
22. International Solidarity Movement
23. Student groups (esp. Muslim Student Associations)
22. Uri Averny
23. Al Franken
24. Teresa Heinz Kerry
25. Noam Chomsky
26. Edward Said
26.5 Alec Baldwin
Locally.....
27. George of FRSC
28. All of FRSC
29. Resource Center for Nonviolence
30. Santa Cruz City Council
31. Scott Kennedy, former mayor
32. Joe Williams, Peace & Freedom Party candidate for 17th dist.
33. Emily Reily
34. Steve Argue

Gee.... I'm beginning to feel like an insult from Agent Lee is a badge of HONOR.

Feel free to add to the list. (Who is next? BARBARA STREISAND??)

Yep.

35. Barbara Streisand
36. Harry Belafonte
37.Whoopi Goldberg.....
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue's "history" and "facts" are such as one finds in the propaganda ministries of the PA.
I note the expose claims I am not a journalist, yet a google search will show anyone I write for Front Page as a contributing editor, am published worldwide and even well-known in Israel having been written about in Ma'Ariv and the Jersualem Post.

Steven Argue's ranting about "Zionists" show a level of immaturity found also in the print media of the Arab world. The new propaganda doublespeak is to try and persuade unknowledgeable American Jews, particulalrly the Jewish radicals who run with Steven Argue's anti-American crowd, that by not supporting Israel they are not being antisemitic. The fact is, urging that Jews in Israel be deported, murdered,
or removed from their homes as Argue does isn't any less antisemitism because it attacks Jews in one part of the world.

Actually, I was going to curtail my hostings of Becky's shows. But thanks to this "expose" I will now increase them. I'll also point out the lies and inaccuracies of Stever Argue's diatribe on one of them. Thank goodness I reached the Santa Cruz community.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

1. Steve's "history" comes from totally debunked work by "jews against Judaism" like Brenner, Neturai Karta, and Jeff Rense.
2. Leftists who focus on Israel's bad policies at the exclusion of the policies of countries like SA, Syria, Iran, etc. are fools and doing the work of the extreme right. I don't like many of Sharon's policies, but that doesn't mean that the "zionist state" is at fault. Arafat was a Nazi, so was Sheikh Yassin. How any conscious leftist could defend either is beyond the pale.
3. This whole "Palestinian" thing is a psyop meant to split the Left along Israeli/Palestinian lines. It was effectively linked to movements like ANSWER and drove Jewish activists out of the anti-ware movement. And people wonder why Ramsey Clark and his ilk are such failures.

Oh, yeah and if Bush is "Sharon's puppet" as much of the "Internet Nazi/Leftist Blog Alliance" thinks, answer me this one question.

If the US is such a good ally of Israel and controlled by Israel, why did AIPAC feel the need to spy on the US and why did the FBI bust the ring at all?

Also on that note, any Zionists who blindly support the Bush Administration are the ultimate fools and will wake up with a knife in their back one day. The US is no friend of Israel, which is why Israel is selling weapons to China and holding joint training drills with the Russians. Bush has reignited the Cold War, except this time, we have less allies. Thanks, George! And, thank you, "anti-Zionist activists", for obscuring these issues with your nonsense! You are such a great asset to the cause.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan claims, "The fact is, urging that Jews in Israel be deported, murdered, or removed from their homes as Argue does isn't any less antisemitism because it attacks Jews in one part of the world."

While this is what Israel is doing to Palestinians it is not what I advocate for the Hebrew speaking population. I advocate equality and an end to genocide by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people. A step towards doing this will cutting of all U.S. military aid to Israel. As I stated earlier, I advocate the fight for a democratic secular and socialist Palestine with a separation of church and state to cover the current occupied territories, Israel proper, and Jordan.

It was asked, "If Bush is Sharon's puppet". Obviously the rich and powerful imperialist country is the United States, not Israel. Sharon could not survive without massive military assistance from the United States.

ANSWER did not drive Jewish activists out of the anti-war movement, but they have rightly resisted pressure from the Zionist movement to ignore the war being carried out against Palestinians.

As for "Steve's history" being "debunked", continually repeating your hope that this be true does not make it so.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Mr. Argue:
To quote you:
"While this is what Israel is doing to Palestinians it is not what I advocate for the Hebrew speaking population. I advocate equality and an end to genocide by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people. A step towards doing this will cutting of all U.S. military aid to Israel. As I stated earlier, I advocate the fight for a democratic secular and socialist Palestine with a separation of church and state to cover the current occupied territories, Israel proper, and Jordan. "

Perhaps you could explain what genocide Israel is perpetrating on the Palestinian people? Thier population has increased rapidly. 70% of the PA's money comes from Israel. Surely a country intent on genocide would not fund the entity they seek to destroy? Israel gave the Palestinians 97% of the West Bank and Gaza with 3% more on exchange only to have 1,200 + of her people murdered. Is this the genocide you speak of by Israel against the Arabs. The PA has a law on the books with a death sentence to sell land to a Jew. It advocates the removal and expulsion of the Jeewish population (while Israel has Muslim and Arab citizens).

Of the 2,500 Arabs killed in the Intifada, those figures include suicidal bombers and terrorists killed by the IDF during armed combat. So where's the genocide, Steve? 6,000,000 Jews were murdered by the Nazis whose leader, Arafat's uncle was their ally and even provided some troops.
The real facts are you spout dogmatic Arab lies and propaganda because you hate Jews. Calling me a "Zionist" is a euphemism for calling me a Jew.
Please feel free to call me a Jew any time because I know your true agenda is to lie as an antisemite and propose the end of a democratic Jewish state in favor of another Arab-Muslim dominated one in its place. And please. the nonsense about equality between Jews and Arabs being your goal is either a deception or ignorant. Arab Israelis have the same civil rights as Jews. You can't show one Arab country where Jews or Christians have equal rights, including the PA. Arab TV inciites the murder of Jews daily even in "Palestine."

Steve, the write above has you pegged fairly well. You are a gardener, someone is a low pay job. No doubt you see yourself as "oppressed."
That is, the working proletariat oppressed by the capitalist leadership. Hence you are a radical communist wannabe revolutionary. You spout dogma against the "rich Jews" like genocide
where there is none. YOu repeat concocted history
you find on communist anarchist radical websites that are frequently funded by Arab money.

I research and write internationally. You state 25 killed at the Passover Massacre and say the bombingh was carried out by Hamas. You obviosuly do not research nor know what you talk about. 31
were murdered that Passover in Netanya. The killer was sent by the PFLP, not Hamas and the cell originated in Jenin. Your amateur "reporting" and "history" may play to the unknowing, but the facts are the facts.

Someone like you could not thrive except in a college town like Santa Cruz. You spout peace and human rights then embrace war on the Jews and the US. You claim you are a human rights advocate but want no settlement for Palestinians in UNRWA camps except the dismantling of Israel.
College students are frequently naive and fall for the false image you try to convey as wanting peace and human rights. You want endless war in favor of the goals of revolution and the murder of Jews who you euphemisitically call Zionists.

I will be discussing you next at length on Club Cruz, Steve. If you really ahve any influence in teh community, I think that community needs to know what an amateur and hatemonger you really are. The votes got rid of Scott Kennedy wehn they learned the truth, maybe they will begin to ignore your antisemitic diatribes. Saying that Jews control America is just one part of this.

Thank you for inspiring me to increase my hosting duties on Club Cruz....
 

wake up steve

>While this is what Israel is doing to Palestinians >it is not what I advocate for the Hebrew speaking >population.

Not true, as Kaplan clearly points out. What kind of genocide is it when population INCREASES?

>I advocate equality and an end to genocide by the >Israeli government against the Palestinian people. >A step towards doing this will cutting of all U.S. >military aid to Israel.

I don't have a problem with cutting the aid as Israel can support itself and it is mostly a boon to our defense corps. No argument there. However, what guarantee is there, Steve, that the suicide bombings will cease?

>As I stated earlier, I >advocate the fight for a >democratic secular and socialist Palestine with a >separation of church and state to cover the >current occupied territories, Israel proper, and >Jordan.

You do realize, Steve, that if this is implemented, the Arabs will vote the Jews "into the Sea"? I know that is really sad, politically incorrect, realistic, etc. but it is the truth. What guarantees would Israel have against this scenario if a US of the Mid-east were created?

>ANSWER did not drive Jewish activists out of the >anti-war movement, but they have rightly resisted >pressure from the Zionist movement to ignore the >war being carried out against Palestinians.

No, not intentionally, but I know plenty of Jews who were against the war in Iraq, but not going so far as to be anti-Israel. There is no place for them at ANSWERs rally. You are aware, Steve, aren't you, that ANSWER is the WWP, which supported Saddam, the Tienanmen massacre, the Russian invasions of Czechoslovakia and Hungary, and practically every Stalinist crime of the past half-century? And you call yourself a Trotskyist AND a historian?


As for Lee, while I agree with you about Israel, it comes off ridiculous for you to insult Steve for being a gardener. You sound like an elitist asshole or a Republican. Also, I don't think Steve is a true anti-semite, just a leftist who has been confused by all the slick Nazi propaganda that has crossed ideological boundaries on the Internet.

"“When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.?
- Martin Luther King

"“peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.?

-Martin Luther King
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Pretending to be someone else Becky Johnson wrote, "I was proPalestinian until I watched the Club Cruz episode and did some investigating. Now I am proIsrael." This quote backs my contention that to be pro-Israel or Zionist is be anti-Palestinian, just as to be a Nazi is to be anti-Jew.

Becky Johnson also wrote, "In his [Steven Argue's] historic narrative and overview of the human rights situation within Israel proper or that Arabs can't own land in Israel proper." And claimed that this was an "absurd mistake".

Here is what I actually wrote:

"Although the Israeli government claims that Palestinians have the
right to own property, this is a lie. Ever since 1948 Palestinians in
Israel do not have the right to own land, because their land is often
confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. Water
rights have been systematically cut off and diverted away from
Palestinian lands and given to stolen Hebrew owned lands. Palestinian
laborers are then denied by law the right to work the Hebrew owned
agricultural lands, although they are sometimes illegally employed as
cheap labor with no labor rights."

This was no mistake.
 

Just as I predicted...

The buffoon on duty is clinging to both his misconception/lie and his conviction that I'm no other than Becky Johnson, the evidence I provide to the contrary be damned.

If Becky Johnson is reading these lines, perhaps she can try to translate the following passage I'm about to write in transliterated Hebrew?

Koteret: toda raba.
Me'et: hoshev biqorti
Gouf hahoda'aa: Halink shesipaqta natan li hizdamnout lehavhir kama devarim legabei te'anot shenichtevou 'al yedei hahaver shelcha. Bli qesher lemidat hahashpa'aa shel devarai, birtzoni lomar she'ani me'od me'udad lehivachah shesmolanim kmo Becky Johnson yotz'im be'iqviyout lehaganat Yisrael. Mi Yiten vesmolanim rabim aherim yevorchu besoug ha'ometz vehanehishout shela.

--------------------------------------------------

Now, dear readers, what do you bet the Argue buffoon will keep believing I'm Becky Johnson even if she comes back here and concedes she's unable to translate the passage above?

As for dissecting all his lies and misconceptions, I'll leave that to Lee Kaplan, Becky and others who actually reside in or around Santa Cruz or even the US. I rather spend a much larger portion of my time laughing at the buffoon's skewed facts than bothering to refute each and every one of them when it's obvious he and his ilk will never accept even the most compelling rebuttal. I would bet that unlike buffoons like Argue, Lee Kaplan and 'Steve can't argue' don't see reason to suspect I've been lying about who I am and where I am (not).
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"Alternately, a slightly less-immature version of intellectual retreat is found in phrases like, "his musings aren't worthy of a thorough rebuttal." Such response might be justified in circumstances where your opponent is obviously just ranting and babbling, but is not justified (other than as a sign of defeat) when your opponent has offered an extensive and fairly well-researched argument."

Scroll back people. The writer being trashed here refuted FIVE of Steve's arguments before deeming the rest not worthy of taking the time to refute. And the responder accuses him of name-calling? I was once on a debate team with formal rules. Name-calling earns you zero points and can actually cause you to lose points.

Also, it is a point of pride for me to always post my name and e-mail to show I stand behind what I say.
 

For the Record

Lee Kaplan, one of my hosts on Club Cruz and the editor of dafka.org website, does not know Steve Argue personally like I do. For the record, Steve is a horticulturalist who is currently writing a book about the ferns of Nevada and California. Lee's attacks on him for his profession are really without merit.

(hopefully at least some of you have been amused)

Secondly, Steve Argue HAS run for city council and I voted for him. While we completely disagree on issues regarding Israel and the Palestinians (and neither of us has even been to Israel so what do we know!) Steve has been a staunch opponent to police misconduct, is a prolific writer on a number of foreign issues which he continuously researches, and is a strong union activist. To my knowledge, neither Lee nor I are employed by the State of Israel. Please read my article "An albino in G-d's garden and a Six-Pack of Beer" posted at the dafka website. It gives a very personal explanation of why I have come to support Israel.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Critical Thinker: steroetypes are never good. My comments about Steven Argue being a gardener do not mean I am a Republican. You are guilty of simplistic comments just as Steve is. That said, I referred to Steve Argue's career simply because he tries to write about geopolitics and history as an authourity when his real expertise in in cutting grass and pulling weeds.

Sadly, these are the people who spread the lies against Israel. Also, Steven Argue writes extensively about "Jewish control" of the media,
of the country etc. and smears the Jewish nation
accusing it of genocide.He also lends support to the likes of Sheikh Yassin and Arafat who have butchered many Jews and even Americans.

I write in internationally syndicated journals for my living and research my materials with facts. Not to boast, but wannabe revolutionaries in the beachfront community of Santa Cruz, that is, armchair communist revolutionaries, are just acting out their fantasies. I imagine poor Steve, sweating in teh hot sun while toiling over a garden deems himself part of the exploited masses. To that end he attacks the rich Jews and capitalists he perceives as reasonsible for his plight.

Make no mistake about it. He is not misguided and thinking he is helping the poor or humanity. He hates Jews, "Zionists," as he likes to call us
so he can deny being antisemitic. As a commentator on Middle East Affairs he is uneducated, his only skill being hate. He has been arrested for assaulting police offficers in the past, another sign of his peaceful intentions.

Again, Critical Thinker, don't presume to criticize American Jews here who help Israel. Because ignorance over Israel's situation is major here and part of it is due to clowns like Steven Argue. He will be a major focus on the next Club Cruz Show. If we got rid of Scott Kennedy, maybe we can get the community to understand what a buffoon (a good description of him) Steve Argue is also in Santa Cruz.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I read Steven Argue's "history" and I know that Critical Thinker, Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan are right. I thought the information below might enlighten anyone taken in by Steve Argue's propaganda. Like those other three writers I see a closet revolutionary supporting terrorists and dictators overseas from the comfort of Northern Califfornia.

Why does the Palestinian "Peace Plan" call for the expulsion of so many Jews from their homes?



You know for years, leftists and Arabs, and all kind of anti-Semites have compared Israel to South Africa. For the last few years, there's been a divestment campaign against Israel as was done against South Africa. Many Jews shrugged off the comparison, or hid from it. And most decent people of all persuasions, argued, "No it's not true, Israel is a democracy, and the old South Africa had apartheid."

But it has dawned on me that the comparison makes some sense. Not between Israel -- the embattled victim of morally degenerate suicide bombings -- and the once racially segregated South Africa. Not between Israel, the victor in a defensive war -- that pitted several enemies against it, attempting a second Holocaust in 1967 -- and a cruel divisive South African regime that pitted one group against another for racial supremacy. But between Israel the country that since 1948, has wanted to live peacefully with its neighbors; between Israel who has won all the wars that were forced upon it and still made agreements to return territory captured -- territory that gave it much needed strategic depth -- in return for promises written on paper; and the new racially diverse South Africa of Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, and the current President Thabo Mbeki.

You see Nelson Mandela and F.W. de Klerk -- winners of the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize -- and Desmond Tutu -- winner of the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize -- called for reconciliation between groups in South Africa. It might not be perfect now, but after Mandela's release from 28 years of imprisonment in 1990, the first thing he DIDN'T do was call for killing whites. Being elected President in the first multi-racial election in South Africa in 1994, Mandela also knew how to step down after 5 years in office; instead of like Arafat -- the infamous Nobel Peace Prize winner -- who died in office, incapable of releasing power until his death. Desmond Tutu has used his Nobel money to set up the Desmond Tutu Peace Centre.

Will Yasser Arafat's heirs (Mahmoud Abbas, Marwan Barghouti, Hamas, and others), use some of his stolen money to set up "The Yasser School of Safe Explosive's Use," maybe?

The Quartet's (US, EU, UN and Russia) so-called Roadmap to Middle East peace, envisions the first case of "Ethnic Cleansing" of the 21st century, this time internationally legitimated. The Sharon government in Israel intends to be a willing accomplice, if it carries out its planned expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif-Gaza and Northern Samaria (euphemistically called "Disengagement"). I understand that if most countries would have favored the Nazi attempt to commit genocide against the Jews, or most of the world supported forced racial segregation -- Apartheid -- in South Africa, that would have made them okay to do. You don't agree? So why is it okay to close Jewish "settlements," uproot several hundred thousand Jews from Judea and Samaria -- the West Bank -- and Gaza, in the name of "Peace," when the world is being promised an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a democratic Palestinian State? Forget Apartheid, they're planning a racially-ethnically pure Arab state free of Jews.

If the "democratic" Palestinian state that Bush and Blair keep talking about, and everyone else envisions, requires uprooting whole communities; towns and villages of thousands, expelling families from their homes, destroying everything built -- schools, synagogues, community centers, businesses, people's lives -- in the last 37 years, where may I ask is the reconciliation? Where is the peace? When the blacks in South Africa finally gained power, they didn't throw the whites out, or try to murder them.

If Palestine has to be Judenrein -- free of Jews -- then it won't be "democratic" but NAZI!

Palestine won't be an Apartheid State like the old South Africa, but a Nazi state, not racially supremacist but racially pure. And that's a far cry from the vision being presented to us by Bush, Blair, Sharon, and all those nice people who say, "we have to solve the Palestinian problem" or "The solution is two states living side by side in peace." The Palestinian Authority till now has done nothing to stop the Oslo War for over four years. Plenty of evidence indicates they've actually helped carry it out. Marwan Barghouti (founder of the al-Aksa Martyrs Brigades terror group, affiliated with Arafat and Abbas's Fatah) just called on Mahmoud Abbas (the Fatah candidate for PA President) not to give up the option of "armed struggle." The express purpose of the terror groups is to drive Jews out of their homes, and Sharon is helping them with his expulsion plan for Gazan Jews.

But Jews have a longer history (almost 4,000 years) with these ancient Holy Places (Gaza, Hebron, Shechem, Bethlehem, Shilo, Tekoa, and Jericho) as the indigenous population -- than the Arabs do. Most of whom came into the area from the surrounding Arab countries in the late 19th & early 20th centuries. Why should the Jews have to leave? If Arabs can live as equal citizens in Israel, able to be elected to the Knesset (there are Arab citizens in Israel's parliament), or serve on Israel's Supreme Court (there is an Arab Supreme Court Justice), why can't Jews be equal citizens in the democratic Palestinian state in the making, with full rights, responsibilities, and privileges?

The comparison between Israel and the old South Africa doesn't fly, but the comparison between the Palestinian state that they're trying to sell us, and the old racist South Africa goes quite well. On the other hand, the correct comparison is between Israel and the new multi-racial South Africa. The population of South Africa today is about 75% black, with the remainder made up of white, coloreds, and Indians. Israel's population is about 80% Jewish, with the remainder Arab, Druze, Bedouin, Circassian, Armenian, etc. Both are democracies with a dominant majority and minorities sharing equal rights.

The proposed Palestinian state will have an estimated population of between 2.4 and 2.9 million people, and almost 10% of the population is Jews. In Judea and Samaria -- the West Bank -- there are about 1.5 to 1.8 million Arabs and almost 250,000 Jews, or about 15%. When you include the post-1967 parts of Eastern Jerusalem that some want to make into the Palestinian capital city, it brings the total number of Jews in the so-called "occupied territories" to about a half a million, or almost 20% of the proposed Palestinian state.

So why exactly can't Jews stay in "democratic" Palestine?

In Hebron for example, the media always tells you that there are 500 Jews living among 100,000 or 120,000 Arabs. BIG LIE! What they "forget" to tell you is that the population figure for the Arabs, is for the greater metropolitan area of Hebron, surrounding villages (i.e. suburbs) and all, and if you include all the Jews living in the same areas (Kiryat Arba, and the Hebron Hills towns and villages) there are close to 10,000 Jews living there, or about 10% of the total population. Jewish cities in Judea and Samaria like Ma'ale Adumim with almost 35,000 Jews and Ariel with 22,000 -- the size of Anytown, USA -- they're going to be expelled?

Why can't all these Jews stay living in Palestine, just as the non-Jews live in Israel? Real peace doesn't mean "Ethnic Cleansing," real peace means reconciliation, respect, and mutual trust. If there aren't any of these, THERE ISN'T ANY REAL PEACE! So, why are the Jews being forced from their homes exactly?

Why does everyone (Bush, Blair, the Quartet, Sharon, Peres and Israel's left) just assume Jews can be moved like cattle (and have no rights)? Why does the world want to Ethnically Cleanse "democratic" Palestine of Jews? Why would the world voluntarily create -- at best -- another old South Africa -- at worst -- a Nazi Arab state? Does the world somehow have lower expectations from the Arabs? That Arabs somehow can't live peacefully among others? No one even mentions the possibility of Jews staying in their homes and becoming Palestinian citizens. Does the world have racist attitudes that somehow Palestinians can't live in democratic societies and share? Or, does the world not care about persecuted Jews? Just like in the time of the Holocaust.

Where are all the "Great Souls" of the world, morally outraged by a "Peace Plan" that calls for the expulsion of people from their homes? Where are all the anti-apartheid activists, who saw such evil in the old South Africa? Why aren't they protesting this latest injustice? Why not divest from Palestine?

So, I challenge you Desmond, I dare you Nelson, and all you "Anti-Apartheid Great Souls," stand up for those high morals everyone has attributed to you. Don't just sit back and watch as 8,000 people get expelled from their homes in Gaza. Don't let several hundred thousand more Jews get Ethnically Cleansed from their ancient homeland and call it "democracy."

Remember Rev. Tutu, the Land of Israel, Canaan or Judea, that place described in your Bible? Certainly men of such high moral fiber as yourselves, and all the others like you, will call out for "understanding," "tolerance," and "peace and reconciliation," between Arab and Jew in a democratic Palestine. And certainly, you will all oppose expelling people from their homes in Gaza and elsewhere, even if they are only Jews.

Steven Argue I think has been refuted here enough. Becky! I'm going to watch your show. You piqued my interest.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue has been arrested for assaulting police offficers? Is that a definition of a "peace advocate?" I can't wait to watch this Cruz Report. What channel is it on?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

>I referred to Steve Argue's career simply >because he tries to write about geopolitics and >history as an authourity when his real expertise >in in cutting grass and pulling weeds.

So, in other words, nobody who isn't a professional is allowed to comment on politics?
How democratic of you! Also, I didn't say you were a Republican, but that you were acting like one by insulting his line of work and acting like you are so special and that your shit doesn't stink. I would agree with you on the Israel issue, but not on your classist attitude. If you really look down on people for being gardeners, you are no better than Steve. Also, don't delude yourself about getting rid of Kennedy, many people, including myself have been sick of this guy for years for his pro-capital policies.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

You missed the point. The motivations behind people like Steven Argue are to destroy America and Israel "by any means necessary." You also missed the point saying I speak like a Republican, that's as elitist as your criticism.

That said, I also wish to say I didn't say I am special but that my research is based on facts. If that offends you or seems egotistical, too bad; it's true.

I don't look down on gardeners who are normal Americans and support demcoracy and freedom. I look down on gardeners who pass themselves off as intellectuals and spread antisemitic lies and rumors. That's the difference.

As for Kennedy, they said I got rid of him? I hope so. Let's talk about Argue on the show next...
 

Lee, you're wrong!

Whoa!

Before you go any further, I noticed you're confusing me for 'Steve Can't Argue'. I'm not the same person and am rather disappointed that you rushed to conflate the two of us without checking any of the facts, like where (in which country) the other guy lives.

It would be nice and ethical if you articulate something like an apology and redirect your reply to the other person. (Sheesh....)
 

I like your list

thanks for taking the time to make this list. I don't know about Lee or his/our "agents" but this is a (hopefully) brief statement of my positions

Teachers, k-12 -- I am one. I am pro-teachers.
2. Teachers, college _- I am pro-college teachers.
3. Gardeners(!!) I take the pro-gardner position, especially if pesticide and chemical fertilizer free

4. Older Jewish Americans who have either been through the Holocaust or had family members who went through it. ?

5. Liberal American Jews, who are the MAJORITY of American Jews ?
6. Arab Americans ?
7. Muslim Americans I have criticised one woman who was demanding the right to wear the hijab, when the issue to me is do women have the right to NOT wear the hijab?
8. Peace Groups -- many, many, many all over the U.S. --- I consider myself a member of several peace groups.
9. Quakers I disagree with the Quakers on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but find their experts to be the most honest and knowledgable of all those on the left
10. Mennonites ?
11. Church of the Brethren ??
12. Church of Presbyterians - YES! I am VERY critical of the Presbyterian decision to divest from Israel. their reasoning was based on a pack of lies and it amounts to antisemitism.
13. Tikkun -- Michael Lerner is shamefully trying to make a name for himself off the back of the peace movement and at the expense of Israel.
14. Gush Shalom --misinformation central!!
15. Mideast Children's Alliance --these people are scary
16. Democrats -- yeah, yeah. Can't live without them. cant shoot them.
17. Women's International League of Peace and Freedom -- Some of my very favorite people are staunch WILPF'er. I love them. But they are 100% wrong when it comes to Israel.
18. Peace and Freedom Party -- kneejerk anti-Israel
19. John Kerry -- I was (and still am) pro-Kerry. Kerry is pro-Israel. Kerry was the only one to bring up what is happening in Sudan.
20. A.N.S.W.E.R. I agree with them on Iraq. Disagree on Israel.
21. Michael Moore Isn't he great!!
22. International Solidarity Movement --oh,boy. way way off the deep end. tragic really.
23. Student groups (esp. Muslim Student Associations) I have seen NOTHING to recommend the MSA at UCSC. They put on forums full of misinformation and hate-speech. they have actively sought to prevent their members from attending events which presented an alternate view. Big problems here.
22. Uri Averny -- how much do the Saudis pay him, I wonder.
23. Al Franken I like him.
24. Teresa Heinz Kerry I like her.
25. Noam Chomsky Great! except about Israel. There he has his head up his ass.
26. Edward Said this guy was a real piece of work. his so-called "scholarship" is thankfully over with his recent death. But people still quote him!
26.5 Alec Baldwin ?
Locally.....
27. George of FRSC George had me debate Stephan Zunes on her show. I disagree with her about Israel, but she is top-notch journalist, listens to criticism and doesnt ignore the debate. The worst insult I have ever heard her say was that someone was "very conservative". She does have show after show after show where she or her guests engage in Israel-bashing. but hey, this is a democracy and free speech is all about people having opinions other people dont like
28. All of FRSC --- pretty much anti-Israel throughout (except me of course) but you forgot Vinnie! Hes rabidly anti-Israel
29. Resource Center for Nonviolence -- while they do some good things like draft counseling and some tepid anti-war activity, they have ignored homeless issues, ignored police violence in their own backyard, and are institutionally against the Jewish State of Israel. Scott Kennedy personifies whats wrong with the RCNV.
30. Santa Cruz City Council -- Good things: they passed a stay out of Iraq resolution and supported WAMM Bad things: they persecute homeless people institutionally while claiming to be progressive and liberal. thumbs down to all but the two new members (Ryan coonerty and Tony Madrigal) who havent had time to do anything yet, good or bad.
31. Scott Kennedy, former mayor -- Did Lee really cost him his re-election??? I hope so!!
32. Joe Williams, Peace & Freedom Party candidate for 17th dist. -- a thoughtful, knowledgable, and considerate person and a personal friend.
33. Emily Reily -- shes the marie antoinette of our time--- you know "Let them eat cake!"
34. Steve Argue -- 100% wrong when it comes to Israel
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Look, I'd rather be arguing with Steve, but you aren't making it easy. I don't think it is true that Steve is a bad person out to "destroy America by any means necessary". In fact, on many local issues, he has been courageous and consistent. Like many people on the Left he's just confused about Israel. During the war in 1999, he was quite vocal against the US collaboration with Muslim terrorists in the Kosovo war, so it is unfair of you to paint him as "anti-Jew" and "pro-terrorist". It is more complicated than that. Why he can't see that the people who are attacking Israel are the same people who attacked the Serbs in Yugoslavia, the Russians in Chechnya, the Indian Hindus in Kashmir, the Chinese in Xinjaing, and Americans in Manhattan, I don't know. But, unfortunately, he is not the only one.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Great list, Becky. Agree with you almost down the line. It's very hard to be a Left Zionist these days, isn't it? You find yourself at odds with people you agreee with on practically everything else, and agreeing with buttwipes like Fox News and Charles Krauthammer on Israel. Ugggh. But it must be done, unfortunately.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

To Critical thinker: Shleecha....
 

Becky you might be right

Becky, you might be right about Steve being a horticulturalist. He obviously has expertise since he's such a big fruit.
 

Lee, you're wrong!

Whoa!

Before you go any further, I noticed you're confusing me for 'Steve Can't Argue'. I'm not the same person and am rather disappointed that you rushed to conflate the two of us without checking any of the facts, like where (in which country) the other guy lives.

It would be nice and ethical if you articulate something like an apology and redirect your reply to the other person. (Sheesh....)
 

Apology accepted

Apology accepted. (BTW, the word is "sleecha".)

Please disregard the duplicate post right above. It was produced by a glitch during a refreshing of this webpage.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

As a member of the Santa Cruz community I have read Steve Argue's frequent diatribes about Jews.
I'm glad to see Becky has the courage to point out to opur community these people who tell history replete with lies.

Steven Argue, the RCNV all ahve an agenda of supporting those who destroy Israel. They are not "peace advocates" but rather warmongers in their own rights.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Up above, "the real Lee Kaplan" writes the following:
"I write in internationally syndicated journals for my living and research my materials with facts. Not to boast, but wannabe revolutionaries in the beachfront community of Santa Cruz, that is, armchair communist revolutionaries, are just acting out their fantasies. I imagine poor Steve, sweating in teh hot sun while toiling over a garden deems himself part of the exploited masses. To that end he attacks the rich Jews and capitalists he perceives as reasonsible for his plight."

The enlightened specialist claims to research his materials with facts. What on earth does this mean??????
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Um...I'd guess it means he has materials to back up his information. I googled his articles and he usually has footnotes. Looks pretty carefully researched.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I understood what "the real Lee Kaplan" was saying. I was just mocking his arrogance and terrible writing (which is probably why he is a journalist). Since he insists on equating criticisms of the Israeli state with racism (which makes rational discussion impossible), I decided to focus on his incoherence. Read his post again. It IS amusing.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I jsut read the comments by Lee Kaplan and I don't see him equating anything with "racism."
Since Judaism is not a race, that makes Amused look pretty stupid. Also implying jornalists engage in terrible writing is insulting to all journalists. Amusing says she's a teacher...as Shaw said, those can do, those who can't, teach.
And in Santa Cruz they teach a lot of bullshit and lies. Keep up the good work on Club Cruz. We'll all tune in.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan wrote, "Also implying jornalists engage in terrible writing is insulting to all journalists."
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

A gardener is doing a better job as a writer than incompetent journalists working for Israel.

Viva Caesar Chavez!

Steven Argue has my vote for any office!
 

Re: What?

No, "Lee Kaplan" did not say that, "Amused is not amusing" wrote that. Anyways, what's the point here folks? Let's move past this comment thread and organize for change. shalom.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Perhaps it does not matter, but I am a botanist, and not usually a gardener.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"Lee Kaplan" goes by the name: "Amused is not amusing"
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I go by the name Amused is not Amusing? News to me...I'm also known as Superman, Spiderman, Ariel Sharon, Zionist agent, um...how about
Mossad agent (sounds more excitng).

So Steven Argue is a botanist. Does that mean he grows pot in Santa Cruz? At any rate, the "expose" on me is pretty silly. Maybe we can do a call in program on Club Cruz. The hate for Israel in the community by some uneducated people does seriously need to be addressed. I found the list of people I "attacked" as insteresting. Argue seems to think anyone opposed in the Middle East situation is attacked by me. But his lsit does include some major bullshit artists. Let me sign off here and say that people who support the PLO are not "peace activists." They claim they want Israel dismantled and call Jews Zionists. The rationale is they only want Jews in ISrael dispossessed.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Why does one side have to be right and the other wrong?

Isreal is doing horrible things to the Palastenians.

This doesn't mean that the Arabs don't also hate.

But I agree with Steve, I don't think that my tax dollars should support what Israel is doing.

They are stealing land once owned by Pals and denying them the right to return to this land.

Now there are many cases where 2 families claim the right to a single piece of land, and both could be considered right.

If my tax dollars were also supporting what Hamas and other terrorist are doing then I would be against our money being used in that manner too, but it isn't.

Our tax dollars are supporting only 1 side of this and I don't think we should support either.

Giving them $3 Billion in weapons every year is not helping the peace process.
 

Distortions of IDF involvement in deaths of Palestinian children

I was cruising the internet to learn about the "rarely discussed" Palestinian deaths mentioned in a Sentinel letter today when I found this guest column. I wonder what devotees of B'tsalem have to say about the articles' contention that minors killed who were perpetrating stabbing an Israeli citizen to death are listed as "innocent child victims" of the IDF?

Check out the entire article at:

www.sptimes.com/2004/12/11/Opinion/Report_offers_pervers.shtml
 

Some kind of "Peace" advocate!

The USA DOES provide aid to the Palestinians with grant money to the Palestinian Authority. They do not (intentionally) provide military aid to the Palestinians. The USA also gives $2 billion a year to Egypt which it DOES use for military purposes. Again, the aid to Israel is one of the provisions of the 1979 Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt which has kept peace between those two countries for 25 years. Yet "Peace" advocates here call for tearing up the peace treaty and arming the Palestinians so they can kill even more people? This is peace?

Also: UN resolution 242 which was passed right after Israel's stunning victory in the 1967 war, presumed that Israel would militarily and civilly administer the conquered lands until a peace treaty could be reached between the parties involved (at the time, there were no Palestinians--only Arabs). Israel has followed this resolution, made peace with Jordan (which had previously occupied the West Bank) made peace with Egypt (which had previously occupied Gaza) and with the Oslo accords, attempted to make peace with the Palestinians. Instead, Arafat launched his murderous 2nd intifada. Israel is still legally militarily controlling the West Bank and Gaza (until a peace treaty can be reached) but the PA is the sole civil administrator for 95% of the Palestinian people (and doing a piss-poor job of it too!). So, Israel is not illegally in the West Bank or Gaza.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan writes:

"Argue seems to think anyone opposed in the Middle East situation is attacked by me."

Actually I didn't write that list.

Kaplan writes, "So Steven Argue is a botanist. Does that mean he grows pot in Santa Cruz?" Add to list:

38. Botanists
39. Santa Cruz

While we are at it I do not support the PLO, but that and the fact that I am not anti-Semitic are pretty obvious from my writings. Support for the basic human rights of an entire people cannot be linked to what we think of their leadership.

Kaplan and Johnson claim that Arafat was involved in suicide bombings. The reality is that he worked to stop them.

My criticisms of Arafat have always been from the left. When Arafat negotiated for the current "two state solution" I pointed out that it would not work because Palestinians would only have control of the poorer areas of Palestine where there was/is no real basis for an independent economy. Instead of being a truly independent nation the Palestinians continued to be forced to work for racist Zionists for employment while the Palestinian Authority took on the role of capitalist government administrators of the new Israeli Bantustans.

I oppose all capitalist governments, including the PA. This, however, doesn’t mean that I’m neutral when it comes to Israel’s murderous invasions of Jenin and Gaza.

The current state of the situation has shown that Yasir Arafat's strategy of negotiations with the Israeli government has achieved
nothing, that the Israeli government can not even keep their word on
earlier agreements, and that there will not be peace for either the
Palestinian or the Hebrew speaking population until the Israeli state
is abolished and in its place a democratic secular Palestine is built
with a separation of church and state where the civil rights of all
nationalities are guaranteed. Only a socialist movement that
represents the rights of the entire working class and speaks
uncompromisingly against the discrimination and violence meted out to
the Palestinians by the Israeli State will be capable of making such a
revolutionary transformation. Likewise such a movement cannot see
the Hebrew speaking population as the enemy and must instead target
the repressive apparatus of the Zionist state.

Much hope can be seen in the fact that neither the Palestinian
Authority (P.A.) nor the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP) target civilians. In addition a revolt has taken
place within the Israeli army where many Israeli soldiers are
refusing to participate in Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian
people, despite going to prison for their heroic actions.

Every 3 billion per year sent by the U.S. government to the Israeli war machine just prolongs Israel’s war on the Palestinian people. It is time for the U.S. government to end its role in this crime.
 

The buffoon Argue keeps lying

Lie #1:
"Kaplan and Johnson claim that Arafat was involved in suicide bombings. The reality is that he worked to stop them."

Arafat only did that during part of the 1st half of 1996 at Peres' behest and also to try to ensure Peres' victory in the forthcoming election that year.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Lie #2:
"Palestinians would only have control of the poorer areas of Palestine"

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Lie #3:
"Israel’s murderous invasions of Jenin and Gaza."

Israel assassinated and routed only terrorists/combatants during these incursions (the 13 yr. old girl from Gaza was murdered by the private initiative of one company commander), hardly a murderous actibity.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Lie #4:
"the violence meted out to the Palestinians by the Israeli State"

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Lie #5:
"Much hope can be seen in the fact that neither the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) nor the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) target civilians."

The PFLP has carried out a few suicide bombings, one of which has been extensively discussed above. Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades have committed countless suicide bombings and other sorts of terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians until very recently. (For the uninformed: al-Aqsa is Fatah's military arm and Fatah is the party that rules the PA and the two mostly overlap.)
What's more, the Israeli military has seized PA documents proving the PA has encouraged and funded attacks on civilians.

-------------------------------------------------

Lie #6:
"In addition a revolt has taken place within the Israeli army where many Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate in Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people, despite going to prison for their heroic actions."

No revolt has occurred. Rather, there have been several hundred cases -- mostly on an individual basis -- of Israelis who have either refused the draft or military duty in the disputed territories.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Lie #7&8:
""Every 3 billion per year sent by the U.S. government to the Israeli war machine just prolongs Israel’s war on the Palestinian people."

Not only is the second contention herein false, but only $2.6 billion were allocated for aid to Israel this fiscal year.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````

Just a curiosity: any ideas why the buffoon keeps referring to the Israeli Jews as "the Hebrew speaking population"? And what does it tell us about his attitude toward them all?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steve, see my embedded remarks.

by Steven Argue 23 Dec 2004
Lee Kaplan writes:

"Argue seems to think anyone opposed in the Middle East situation is attacked by me."

Actually I didn't write that list.

OOPS! MY MISTAKE DUE TO A HARRIED SCHEDULE. THEN I ASSUME YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE LIST.


Kaplan writes, "So Steven Argue is a botanist. Does that mean he grows pot in Santa Cruz?" Add to list:

38. Botanists
39. Santa Cruz

CUTE. BUT I DIDN'T SAY I HATE ALL BOTANTISTS. I SADI BEING A BOTANIST IS A POOR QUALIFICATION FOR PASSING YOURSELF OFF AS A GEOPOLITICS AND HISTORY EXPERT. YOUR INFORMATION ABOVE IS FULL OF FALSITIES AND MISREPRESENTATION. UH, STEVE, DO
YOU SMOKE POT?

Steve continues:
While we are at it I do not support the PLO, but that and the fact that I am not anti-Semitic are pretty obvious from my writings. Support for the basic human rights of an entire people cannot be linked to what we think of their leadership.

THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS HILARIOUS. YOU DO NOT SUPPORT THE BASIC RIGHTS OF JEWS RESIDING IN ISRAEL TODAY. THE PLO COVENATN STILL CALLS FOR THEIR ANNIHILATION. LET ME HEAR YOU CONDEMN ARAFAT AS A MURDERER, STEVE. BTW, YOU KEEP CHANTING YOU ARE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS THEN EMBRACE TERRORISTS AND MURDERERS. WILL YOU CONDEMN SHEIK YASSIN? YOU ATTACK ISRAELIS< ACCUSE THEM OF "GENOCIDE", WHAT ROT, BECAUSE THEY DEFEND THEMSELVES. 4.9 MILLION JEWS AGAINST 250 MILLION ARABS. WHOSE A HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST, STEVE, CERTAINLY NOT YOU. YOUR RANITNG ABOUT "ZIONISTS"
JEWS AND JEWISH CONTROL OF AMERICA ARE WELL KNOWN. THAT"S ANTI-SEMITISM.

Steve conntinues:
Kaplan and Johnson claim that Arafat was involved in suicide bombings. The reality is that he worked to stop them.

LOLOLOLOL. NEXT TIME ON CLUB CRUZ I"LL SHOW DOCUMENTED PROOF WITH ARAFAT'S SIGNATURE THAT HE PERSOANLLY AUTHORIZED AND PAID SUICIDE BOMBERS DURING THE PEACE PROCESS. I"VE ALSO SHOWED FILMS ON CLUB CRUZ OF ARAFAT PRAISING SUICIDE BOMBERS
AS MARTYRS, HE HAS NEVER KEPT ANY IN JAIL. YOUR SILLY COMMENT ABOVE MEANS EITHER YOU ARE DELUSIONAL, LYING OR A BOTANIST TRYING TO PASS HIMSELF AS A GEOPOLITICAL PUNDIT OR HISTORIAN.

Steve says:
My criticisms of Arafat have always been from the left. When Arafat negotiated for the current "two state solution" I pointed out that it would not work because Palestinians would only have control of the poorer areas of Palestine where there was/is no real basis for an independent economy. Instead of being a truly independent nation the Palestinians continued to be forced to work for racist Zionists for employment while the Palestinian Authority took on the role of capitalist government administrators of the new Israeli Bantustans.

Lee kaplan replies::
So you admit you are opposed to a two state solution. In other words, you want Israel, the home to 4.9 million Jews and about 2.2 million gentiles dismantled for a PLO state in its place.
The Bantusans propaganda is designed to try and trick people to think that Israel is like South Africa. Actually, Jews in the West Bank live in BAntusans because they are murdered by the Arabs.
Arab-Israelis by law can live anywehre they want in Israel. Once again the botanist shows his ignornace of the facts on the ground merely reciting propaganda from PA propaganda ministries. By the way, Steve, the PLO keeps the Palestinian Arabs poor while the eladership steals the foreign aid money. YOU SUPPORT THESE PEOPLE. YOU ALSO SUPPORT HAMAS. Some might call you a bullshit artist.
Steve says:
I oppose all capitalist governments, including the PA. This, however, doesn’t mean that I’m neutral when it comes to Israel’s murderous invasions of Jenin and Gaza.

Lee Kaplan replies (caps are a pain)
So you support totalitarian communist control. A Botanist-Stalin type. Gee, Steve, if you prefer a communist government and would relegate other people half way arpound the world to live under such a system, why don't you go practivce Botany'
in Cuba or China? Even the Russians don't like your system any more. More fromt he bullshit artist passing himself off as a geopolitical pundit.You pay taxes as a gardener? Then you are supporting a capitalist government. I suggest you move to Cuba or China or the PA. I dare you.

Steve again:
The current state of the situation has shown that Yasir Arafat's strategy of negotiations with the Israeli government has achieved
nothing, that the Israeli government can not even keep their word on
earlier agreements, and that there will not be peace for either the
Palestinian or the Hebrew speaking population until the Israeli state
is abolished and in its place a democratic secular Palestine is built
with a separation of church and state where the civil rights of all
nationalities are guaranteed. Only a socialist movement that
represents the rights of the entire working class and speaks
uncompromisingly against the discrimination and violence meted out to
the Palestinians by the Israeli State will be capable of making such a
revolutionary transformation. Likewise such a movement cannot see
the Hebrew speaking population as the enemy and must instead target
the repressive apparatus of the Zionist state.

Lee Kaplan responds:
More rhetoric, Steve. Israel already is a secular democratic state. It just hapens to be a refuge for World Jewry as well. Show me one Arab state out of 22 including the PA that is a democratic, let alone secular state. WIll you demand the same of the PA right now? Incidentally, Steve, if you want a state where Jews get no automatic refugee status, then maybe you can condemn here the PA constitution that calls for apartheid against Jews and declares Islam the national religion. Israel has fifteen recognized religions. It even has affirmative action programs like in the US for Muslim Arabs.
You constantly repeat trash. That is a particular quality of communists going back to Stalin. Stick to Botany, Steve, the ferns will believe your baloney. Nobody else does except the little revolutionary wannabes runnign around in Santa Cruz allying themselves with Jew haters like yourself.

Does anyone really take the rantings of people like Steve seriously? I mean claiming that Arafat wanted two states? In SOuth Africa after he signed the Oslo Accords he said he was against two states and would take all of Israel.
The patch on his jacket showed all of Israel as Palestiine.

Steve should be a used car salesman as I doubt he's as ignorant as he sounds. I think he wants to deceive the capitalist masses and Jews to support his communist anti-Jewish tirades. Anyway, it just won't fly...

Tune into Club Cruz...Becky's on the right track.


Much hope can be seen in the fact that neither the Palestinian
Authority (P.A.) nor the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP) target civilians. In addition a revolt has taken
place within the Israeli army where many Israeli soldiers are
refusing to participate in Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian
people, despite going to prison for their heroic actions.

The above shows your abject ignorance or attempt to lie.The PFLP has murdered hundreds of civilians. The Japanese Red Army machine gun attack at Lod Airport was orchestrated by the PFLP. Rahaam Ze'evi was a civilian. ANyone can google civilian deaths at the hands of PFLP.

Every 3 billion per year sent by the U.S. government to the Israeli war machine just prolongs Israel’s war on the Palestinian people. It is time for the U.S. government to end its role in this crime.

The Arabs get more in foreign aid from the US than Israel. Israel's money from the US is usually laon guarantees that are paid back. You sound silly saying the Israelis use American tax dollars to make war on Palestinians. The fact is
Israel at Oslo took arafat and his other pigs and helped them create a new state. They had their people murdered on buses as a result. Really, Steve, are you this ignorant or are you jsut lying to make your little communist revolution "by any means necessary?"
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I haven't heard anything in the news about Egypt using weapons against anyone. I did hear about a terrorist attack at an Egyptian Hilton Hotel recently.

You claim there has been 25 years of peace, but in reality there has been 25 years of oppression.

How does supplying weapons for offensive purposes support peace.

Why are my tax dollars being used to supply a UN Resolution BREAKER to attack innocent civilians with Black Hawk Helocopters and missles? This is not about keeping Isreal safe, it's about diverting tax dollars to the makers of helicopters and missles.

Isreal already has 200 times the weaponry of any of it's neighbors.

I say we cut off military aid to everyone that attacks innocent civilians or breaks UN resolutions.

If we don't then we are an accomplisses to these crimes! And that is the boat we are currently in.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

To the last post:
Egypt is known to smuggle weapons to terrorists who kill Israelis. They do nothing to stop the smuggling. The Karine A weapons ship went thru Egyptian control as well. Egyptian press constantly calls for war and destrutcion of the Jews.

25 years of oppression aginst whom. Arabs in the Occupied territories since 1967 had free health care, the highest standard of living in teh Arab world, local voting rights etc. Under the PA they have been robbed and kept in refugee status.
The reall oppressors are the Arab world.

Weapons have not been supplied for offensive purposes. There are 250 million arabs calling for Israel's annihilation of 4.9 million Jews.
Why don't you ask why aid money destined to help Palestinian poor goes to fund suicide bombers?
It ahs been well documented it does.

"Why are my tax dollars being used to supply a UN Resolution BREAKER to attack innocent civilians with Black Hawk Helocopters and missles? This is not about keeping Isreal safe, it's about diverting tax dollars to the makers of helicopters and missles."

The above is pur rhetoric. The IDF targets the Hamas leadership. Of course if the Palestinians arrested the terrorists (as they agreed to do at Oslo) there would be no need to surgically remove the terrorist leadership. You call every Palestinian terrorists leader killed a civilian
which is disingenuous.

It is not true that Israel has 200 times the weaponry of its neighbors. It is vastly outnumbered by Arab populations and armaments.
That is a lie as usual.

I agree we should cut off aid to those who attack innocent civilians. Since the PA pays rewards to suiicide bombers and lauds them as heroes, lets cut off their aid. As for UN resolutions, given that bodies proven corruption how can anyone take the body seriously?

You are an accomplice in crime by keeping the conflict roiling by demanding Israel's destruction rather than a real settlement.

Rhetoric is cheap in messages like yours....
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

So you support Israel's use of American made weaponry? Missles made here in America being fired into crowds. Killing of 20 innocents for a single guilty man?

Do you deny any of the UN Resolutions or is it just the institution that you have a problem with.

www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
There are close to 100 resolutions in this list that have not been complied with.

Bush and the neocons have tried very hard to make the UN powerless. Their agenda is not about making peace, they are all about perpetual endless war so that they can continue to provide profits to the likes of the Carlyle Group.

They are only pretending to want this to stop. They would loose too much money if it were to stop. They make these helicopters and missiles and stand to loose a lot of money should any warring stop.

If you don't think that these war profiteers aren't also war mongerers then you have more homework to do.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

PLEASE START A NEW THREAD FOR THIS DISCUSSION!
 

25 years of peace with Egypt, but are we getting our money's worth?

"You claim there has been 25 years of peace, but in reality there has been 25 years of oppression."

BECKY: The last time Egypt openly massed its armies on Israel's borders and publically called for open warfare to drive the Jews into the sea was in 1973 with the Yom Kippur war. Then the Arab coalition attacked Israel on the most holy day of their entire calendar. Israel just barely hung on, since the Israelis were taken off guard.

In 1979, President Jimmy Carter (ever heard of him folks?) brokered a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. One provision was that Israel give back 94% of the land it had conquered in a defensive war in 1967. Israel traded all the oil-rich lands of the Sinai peninsula, which were already beginning to bloom with Israeli agriculture and development, back to Egypt because they wanted peace so much.

It is Israel who wants peace.

If you support peace, you support Israel.

Egypt, in addition to getting all their land back, was to get $2 billion a year. And Israel was to get $3 billion a year. All US dollars and with the Pres. of the US's signature on it.
And, incidentally, Egyptian Pres. Sadat paid for this treaty with is life when he was later assasinated.

AND THE PEACE ACTIVISTS WANT THE USA TO UNILATERALLY WITHDRAW FROM A PEACE TREATY THAT HAS MORE OR LESS BEEN WORKING FOR THE PAST 25 YEARS?

Since that time, the Egyptian govt. has never massed its armies against Israel or openly declared war on Israel. But, as the above post indicates, Egypt is no friend of the Israelis. They continue to incite hatred of Israel and the Jews in their press and schools.

"How does supplying weapons for offensive purposes support peace"

BECKY: Per the four wars waged by the Arab coalition of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Libya (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973), Israel was only able to stop the open aggression by arming itself to the teeth.

Israel's presumed nuclear arsenal reminds me of Winston Churchill's summation of US foreign policy with "Walk softly but carry a big stick."

Israel has NOT been running around threatening any Arab country with nuclear annihilation unless certain demands are met. Indeed, they denied they even had nukes. But tellingly, they also did not sign the Nuclear non-proliferation treaty either.

Israel currently has what is considered to be the most professional military force in the world. Professional means they are not running around "machine gunning Palestinian children" as a regular course of events. Israel investigates war crimes and prosecutes violators. War is a nasty business. But for the Israelis, war is preferable to everyone being dead. There aren't many places on earth where this is true. But Israel can only lose once. And then there will be no Israel.

The Left does not want to believe the murderous intent of the many impassioned Arabs and Islamics that they have met. People they have grown to love and respect. But the horror of it is, that some of the most well-meaning and active pacifists are cynically being used by those who most ruthlessly promote war.

No not every Arab. No not every Islamic. Not even the majority. But enough of them to pose a real threat. Enough of them to make us aware of the consequences of our ignorance. What did 911 mean to you?
 

Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

A new link has been created for this article.
Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Why the Santa Cruz Peace activists are warmongers 23.Dec.2004 20:28

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The real Lee Kaplan link


I've noted with interest the musings in here. Mr.Argue accuses Israel of "genocide" against the Palestinians. Fact: Israel provides 70% of the funding for the Palestine Authority. That's hardly an attribute of someone tryng to commit genocide. In fact, Israel gives more to the Palestinians than the EU does or the United States respectively. Fact: Israel created the Palestine Authority for the Palestinians to ahve a state within five years.
Arafat started his terror war thinking the Israelis would succumb and flee.
Fact: Israeli sooldierss must take courses in "purity of arms." The purpose is to prevent abuses of civilains. Facts: The PA leadership steals from its own people foreign aid money. Billions have been given the PA but while the leaders live in palaces, the average Arab earns $2 a day. When Israel lets them work inside Israel, they send in suicide bombers and blow up Jews.
Finally, the term "genocide" is bandied about to imply the Jews are doing to the Nazis what the Nazis did to the Jews. This is imagery and lies at their worst. Palestinians are routinely treated for free at Hadassah hospital. The civilians the previous author cites as being killed (i.e. 20 to one terrorist
is also a fabrication.

WHen people like Steve Argue insult our intelligence by misusing such words, they show the weakness of their arguments. Israel is a Jewish state, yes, but also a secular democracy ranked as democratic as the US and the UK. The
Arab Muslim and Arab Nationalist front is fascist. If you support Freedom and democracy then support Israel.

And as for the guy suggesting America is just in Iraq for profit, get a life.
We can buy the oil cheaper than the cost of waging war. Honestly, some of you Santa Ctuz denizens live in your own little never never land...Tune into Club Cruz.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Would someone tell me what's the difference between an "extreme Zionist" and a "moderate Zionist"? Clearly the author who begaan this thread with his article makes no sense. Zionism means supporting a Jewish national homeland. Israel is a national homeland and refuge for Jews, but does not discriminate against other nationalities. The writers here attacking Lee Kaplan aned DAKFA I happen to know have reorted both inaccurate details and in some cases information composed of outright lies. I looked at the DAFKA website: www.dafka.org and it is quite good. Read the articles in the left menu under News and Commentary. And watch the movies on the site. They clearly refute the messages the Israel bashers keep sending.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

In his pro-war and anti-Arab diatribes Agent Kaplan claims, “And as for the guy [Steven Argue] suggesting America is just in Iraq for profit, get a life. We can buy the oil cheaper than the cost of waging war.?

The obvious point that Kaplan doesn’t want us to see here is that the billions spent on war and occupation do not come out of the pockets of those that profit off of it. The war is being paid for by us taxpayers, not Halliburton and the others. As such it is not just those American capitalists that are looting and privatizing the Iraqi economy that are gaining big profits, but also those who sell the hardware to the U.S. military.

Agent Kaplan claims, “Israel is a Jewish state, yes, but also a secular democracy ranked as democratic as the US and the UK.?

Who gives such rankings? The United States with its violations of the 1965 voting rights act, rigged elections, and political prisoners is far from democratic. Israel is much worse.

Palestinians do not have the right to freely travel. Reminiscent of chattel slavery, Palestinian families are often separated by Israeli officials who commonly do not grant necessary permits for
Palestinians to enter neighborhoods or towns where wives, husbands, or children live. In contrast the Hebrew population has full rights to travel.

Palestinians often do not have the right to keep their own homes, which are often confiscated or bulldozed. The bulldozing of houses is a common punishment of families whose children are accused of throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. Recently in Jenin houses were bulldozed
with people inside, an act that besides killing people also made an estimated 4,000 people homeless.

Palestinians do not have the right to freedom of speech and regularly face arrest, torture, and execution for their political views. Even Hebrew speakers who support rights for Palestinians or an end to Israeli wars have, at times, had their press shut down by the Israeli government or had their demonstrations attacked and beaten by Israeli soldiers.

Although the Israeli government claims that Palestinians have the right to own property, this is a lie. Ever since 1948 Palestinians in Israel do not have the right to own land, because their land is often confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. Water rights have been systematically cut off and diverted away from Palestinian lands and given to stolen Hebrew owned lands. Palestinian laborers are then denied by law the right to work the Hebrew owned
agricultural lands, although they are sometimes illegally employed as cheap labor with no labor rights.

The humiliating conditions of the Palestinian people were recently observed by former anti-Apartheid fighter Archbishop Desmond Tutu who wrote: "I have been very deeply distressed by my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in
South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young police officers prevented us from moving about.

"On my visit to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

"I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: 'Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home;
it is now occupied by Israeli Jews.'

"My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment

In the 1940s Jews were only one third of the population of Palestine. The Arab majority had not yet been driven from their land. After independence from the Britain in 1948 the Zionist state began a massive expropriation of Palestinian land that has not ended. Becky Johnson's claim that, "the Arabs and Muslims who did not flee in 1948, but stayed in Israel have full citizenship, have freedom to practice their religion, own property, vote, have representation in the Knesset, and compose 18% of the population" is so utterly untrue as to defy common sense. Besides defying all facts, I ask why most of an entire people would voluntarily flee the land in which they had built flourishing towns, a rich agriculture, and a vibrant cultural life with nowhere else to go? The short answer is that they did not flee voluntarily. They had met the "Jewish bayonets" of Zionist Jabotinsky's "Iron Wall". To deny this fact comes in on the same level as those who deny the Holocaust of Europe.
 

Now he's recycling his lies and disinformation

from before since he has very little else to say. I'd say he's switched to autopilot mode.
 

Lee Kaplan's Slanderous Lies

Lee Kaplan writes, "YOUR [Steven Argue's] RANITNG [sic] ABOUT "ZIONISTS" JEWS AND JEWISH CONTROL OF AMERICA ARE WELL KNOWN. THAT"S ANTI-SEMITISM."

Earlier Kaplan made a similar slander against my writings. I pointed out that this is not my position and I challenged him to produce anything from my writings to back up his claims. He has not done so, but repeated the same slander.

I will now caution Kaplan that what he is saying is an illegal defamation of character in the fact that Kaplan knows what he is saying to be lie but continues to repeat it in attempt to hurt my public image. I will also warn Kaplan and Johnson that legal proceedings will be carried out against you if you attempt these defamations again on television.

As for Kaplan's fishing expedition on whether or not I smoke pot, no Lee Kaplan, I do not.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Poor Steve Argue, he's so easy to refute because he chants slogans and words "genocide, "Zionists"
and cites made up quotes of Jewish leaders like Jabotinsky that are frabricated on the internet.
Let me go over some of this tripe from above.

Steve says:

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed
by Steven Argue 24 Dec 2004
In his pro-war and anti-Arab diatribes Agent Kaplan claims, “And as for the guy [Steven Argue] suggesting America is just in Iraq for profit, get a life. We can buy the oil cheaper than the cost of waging war.?

The obvious point that Kaplan doesn’t want us to see here is that the billions spent on war and occupation do not come out of the pockets of those that profit off of it. The war is being paid for by us taxpayers, not Halliburton and the others. As such it is not just those American capitalists that are looting and privatizing the Iraqi economy that are gaining big profits, but also those who sell the hardware to the U.S. military.

Kaplan replies:

My dear gasrdener, let me ask you something: if it's a case of going to war for profit, certainly Congress could just legislate to give the money to Halliburton as you claim rather than going to war. While I'm no fan of corporations in the US, I'm not so naive or as simplistic as you as to say Halliburton is the reason we fight the war. You have a simplsitic mind which is also why you are a communist, my friend. You are as simplistic in mind as the worst knee-jerk conserrvative who brands liberrals as all subversives (which I certainly don't do). Sadly, you are pathetic. How dare you, by the way, a gardener in sunny Santa Cruz on the beach, tell Jews born in Israel their country msut be dismantled to allow an Arab Muslim hegemony ruling over them.

Steve Argue says:
Agent Kaplan claims, “Israel is a Jewish state, yes, but also a secular democracy ranked as democratic as the US and the UK.?

Who gives such rankings? The United States with its violations of the 1965 voting rights act, rigged elections, and political prisoners is far from democratic. Israel is much worse.

Kaplan replies:
The above paragraph shows what a buffoon you are,Steve. Can you prove a rigged election. Does the constitution provide for the elctroal college? The ranking are based on a website that ranks the freest mnost democratic socieities in the world, www.freedomhouse.org . There are certainly more places this can be seen. Also, Steve, Cuba, Vietnam and your other favorite Communist countries are ranked the worst of the worst. This makes you look like the fool you are, Steve. As for "political prisoners" in the US, Steve, who might they be? Israel's society by the way has no death penalty. You might want to watch this video of thewoman stoned for violating sharia (Islamic law) then tell us all how you are the champion of human rights in supporting such governments against Israel and the US: www.apostatesofislam.com/media/video/stoning_video_32kbps.wmv

also: www.apostatesofislam.com/media/video/stoning_video_100kbps.wmv with Dial-up Modem

The PA is a military dictatorship, an Islamic theocracy and regularly incites to murder Jews.
Again, who are you, ya little twerp, living in Santa Cruz to tell the Israeli Jews who do live in a western style democracy that they must dismantle their country for Arab Muslim hegemony?
I urge Indymedia readers to watch the stoning at the link above then ask themselves if Jews in Israel have something to fear from the Muslims.


Steve Argue says

Palestinians do not have the right to freely travel.

(Arab-Israelis do. Palestinians are only restricted in traveling into Israel without clearance due to the suicide bombings. In addition, in the West Bank by pass roads you lie are not open to PA citizens are indeed open to them if they apply for permits. They were set up because the Arabs murdered Jews driving on the highways in the West Bank. However, Arab taxi driver from the PA esepcially love to use the bypass roads and get permits to do so. Another lie, Steve, by you that can't hold water.

Steve says:

Reminiscent of chattel slavery, Palestinian families are often separated by Israeli officials who commonly do not grant necessary permits for Palestinians to enter neighborhoods or towns where wives, husbands, or children live.

Lee Kaplan replies:

Sigh..Again untrue, Steve. Israeli Arab citizens have no such restrictions. Due to the national policy of the PA to reward suicide bombers and encourage them, Israel exerts some adminstrative control. But nobody is denied the right to see relatives. By the way, the Palestinian adminsitration agreed to this in the Oslo Accords, so Israel has a legal right to protect its security.

Argue says:
In contrast the Hebrew population has full rights to travel.

Lee Kaplan answers:

Jews who travel in the West Bank are not free to travel and are usually murdered. Remember the lynchiing in Ramallah of the two reservists who got lost and went to a PA police station? Their bodies were mutilated beyond recognition by the Arabs. Stop lying, Steve.

Steve again says:

Palestinians often do not have the right to keep their own homes, which are often confiscated or bulldozed. The bulldozing of houses is a common punishment of families whose children are accused of throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. Recently in Jenin houses were bulldozed
with people inside, an act that besides killing people also made an estimated 4,000 people homeless.

Kaplan replies:

The above is a complete lie. Palestinians can own their homes. There has been no news reports by any major wire serivce (which most are anti-Israel) telling of 4,000 people bulldozed in their own homes. This is more hyperbole by the gardener posing as a geopolitical pundit and repeated on Arab websites. Steve, show me your documentation. Since the PA's casualty figures including all aremed combatants killed fighting the IDF and suicide bombers doesn't exceed 2,500
how do you account for 4,000 people "bulldozed alive in their homes. Steve, your lying knows no bounds. By the way, Btselem, the communist Israeli group says 550 homes werebulldozed, most being houses for terrorist cells or bommaking factories.

Argue claims:

Palestinians do not have the right to freedom of speech and regularly face arrest, torture, and execution for their political views.

Kaplan says:

Another lie, Steve. Show me any Arab-Israeli arrested for speaking out. They are in the Knesset and even call for Israel's destruction. In the PA the IDF has no authority to arrest someone for speaking thier opinion. So this is a complete fabrication and lie. SUch restrictions exist incommunist Cuba and North Korea, Steve. Will you condemn THOSE countries for it and call for their dismantling since they are communist?

Argue says:
Even Hebrew speakers who support rights for Palestinians or an end to Israeli wars have, at times, had their press shut down by the Israeli government or had their demonstrations attacked and beaten by Israeli soldiers.

Kaplan says:
Another lie. Show me any proof of any Israeli newspaper shut down by the government. Show me independent news reports of beating by Israeli soldiers: CNN, AP, UPI etc. not from some of the ISM websites that always start "someone told me.." By the way, The PA routinely shuts down the Palestinian press critical of it. Where's your objection to that?

Argue says:
Although the Israeli government claims that Palestinians have the right to own property, this is a lie. Ever since 1948 Palestinians in Israel do not have the right to own land, because their land is often confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. Water rights have been systematically cut off and diverted away from Palestinian lands and given to stolen Hebrew owned lands. Palestinian laborers are then denied by law the right to work the Hebrew owned
agricultural lands, although they are sometimes illegally employed as cheap labor with no labor rights.

Kaplan replies:

Steve, the only lies in the above paragraph are everything you wrote. Nobody inside Israael owns land. It is leased only because the state is so tiny and there isn't enough.Arabs can't buy land
and neither can the Jews. However, in the PA it is on the books as a death sentence to sell land to a Jew. Hmmm...Apartheid, Steve? You also claim
because Arab land is often confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. This is another outright lie. Not one settlement was ever built on privately owned land. Jordanian government land was used. This is another lie, Steve. Israel does not confiscate private property illegally. if anything is taken via eminent domain, such as for security, teh owner is compensat3ed at market value. Some PA Arabs have sued in the Israeli supreme Court and stoppped eminent domain, so it's not a given. In any event, no idividual homes are "stolen, " a new lie.

Argue:

The humiliating conditions of the Palestinian people were recently observed by former anti-Apartheid fighter Archbishop Desmond Tutu who wrote: "I have been very deeply distressed by my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in
South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young police officers prevented us from moving about.

"On my visit to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

"I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: 'Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home;
it is now occupied by Israeli Jews.'

"My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment

In the 1940s Jews were only one third of the population of Palestine. The Arab majority had not yet been driven from their land. After independence from the Britain in 1948 the Zionist state began a massive expropriation of Palestinian land that has not ended. Becky Johnson's claim that, "the Arabs and Muslims who did not flee in 1948, but stayed in Israel have full citizenship, have freedom to practice their religion, own property, vote, have representation in the Knesset, and compose 18% of the population" is so utterly untrue as to defy common sense. Besides defying all facts, I ask why most of an entire people would voluntarily flee the land in which they had built flourishing towns, a rich agriculture, and a vibrant cultural life with nowhere else to go? The short answer is that they did not flee voluntarily. They had met the "Jewish bayonets" of Zionist Jabotinsky's "Iron Wall". To deny this fact comes in on the same level as those who deny the Holocaust of Europe.


Kaplan replies:

Desomond Tutu gets millions from the Arabs to push their cause. The fact he has a turned around collar is meaningless. In addition, his mvoement also endorsed Mohammar Gaddafi in the past. Tutu is hardly a civil rights activist of any reliability any more. Pluse, like you, Steve,
he can be abysmally ignorant and subject to lies and propaganda. Has Tutu ever condemned Arafat and his thugs for the well documented theft of foreign aid money that never gets to the Arabs in the refugee camps? Or to teaching children to kill Jews in PA schools? Or to end suicide bombings? Nope. Tutu is a joke.

Now he's recycling his lies and disinformation
by Critical Thinker 24 Dec 2004
from before since he has very little else to say. I'd say he's switched to autopilot mode.

Right, Critical, Steve is feeling allbeaten up.
Read on:

Lee Kaplan's Slanderous Lies
by Steven Argue 24 Dec 2004
Lee Kaplan writes, "YOUR [Steven Argue's] RANITNG [sic] ABOUT "ZIONISTS" JEWS AND JEWISH CONTROL OF AMERICA ARE WELL KNOWN. THAT"S ANTI-SEMITISM."

Earlier Kaplan made a similar slander against my writings. I pointed out that this is not my position and I challenged him to produce anything from my writings to back up his claims. He has not done so, but repeated the same slander.

I will now caution Kaplan that what he is saying is an illegal defamation of character in the fact that Kaplan knows what he is saying to be lie but continues to repeat it in attempt to hurt my public image. I will also warn Kaplan and Johnson that legal proceedings will be carried out against you if you attempt these defamations again on television.

As for Kaplan's fishing expedition on whether or not I smoke pot, no Lee Kaplan, I do not.

Kaplan replies:

Hey, Steve, you threatening to sue me and Becky?
Go ahead you twerp. We've got reams of your writings against Jews, your lies against Israel, not just to mention things you wrote above. PLEASE SUE US. We;ll finish you and your bunch of lying clowns down in Santa Cruz. your threats indicate you know you're up against knowledgeable people who can prove waht a liar and little communist supporting anti-Semite you are. Are you willing to take a lie detector test to see if you smoke pot? I'll pay for it,Steve.

You see, dear indymedia readers, all of you, Steve knows his lies don't wash with me. So he threatens legal action. I repeat: STEVE, SUE BECKY AND ME. You will definitely be the focus on our next Club Cruz.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan is obviously incapable of objective analysis or the truth.

He accuses me of smoking pot, yet anyone who knows me knows I do not. Now he wants me to prove a negative, when he has no evidence that I ever did in the first place. This is the typical method of an agent. He is discredited and incompetent so now he just tries to sling mud.

Likewise Kaplan continues to claim that, "We've got reems [sic] of your writings against Jews." This is a lie since I have never written anything against Jews. Once again I say produce your evidence.

Likewise Lee Kaplan wrote, "And he [Steven Argue] doesn't give a fig about poor Arabs overseas, he has written some of the most vile antisemitic crap[ abpout [sic] Jews one can imagine. You know, us rich Jews who run the world that communists like him are going to overcome...sort of like Josef Stalin..."

To which I responded, "Is this an example of the kind of honesty it takes to be an Israeli disinformation agent? I challenge you to find any writing, or even a quote from me, that backs up this claim."

Agent Kaplan, you have yet to produce anything I have ever written about Jews running the world and overcoming them.

Likewise I have never said anything like as you claim here: "YOUR [Steven Argue's] RANITNG [sic] ABOUT... JEWS AND JEWISH CONTROL OF AMERICA ARE WELL KNOWN. THAT"S ANTI-SEMITISM."

Agent Kaplan, your lies and slander are so obvious that anyone can see through them. All of your "facts" should be seen in the same light. None of what you say against people or organizations should be taken seriously by anyone.

In addition I will remind you once again that your libel against me here on IndyMedia, as well as threats of expanded libel on television, are illegal and will be subject to court action against you.

I demand a retraction and apology. Short of that you are going to court.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Hey, Steven, regarding libbel, I note you are calling me a "Zionist agent." No matter. Regarding your demands for an apology you can kiss my Jewish ass. We've got plenty of past postings showing you as the antisemite you are. You wanna go to court? I dare you. You can pay me money for it after I win. And I will win.

You must be terribly frustrated that I showed on here you are a consistent liar, an antisemite and a communist who supports the enemies of the United States and Israel. You also report consistently lies in writing on this webpage. It will be a pleasure to expose you and enlighten the Santa Cruz community about who you really are and what you really stand for.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Kaplan claims once again, "We've got plenty of past postings showing you as the antisemite you are."

Produce them liar.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

1 a person who acts for or represents another
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

This website is a kick. As the real Lee Kaplan I am flattered that so many people purport to be me. As for Mr. Argue's threats to sue me, Mr. Argue, feel free to do so at any time. I submit to the readership here that your tales of transgressions by Israel are lies and designed to deceive people. I submit that your articles both in the past and present have been and are antisemitic. You cannot escape by calling people "Zionist." I also submit that as a commuist revolutionary in Santa Cruz you support overseas dictatorships. I ahve my own battery of lawyers and will gladly clean your clock with the evidence.

As for past postings requested, we'll show them on Club Cruz. We hope everyone will tune in.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Now really, Steve, aren't you threatening people because you were shown for the buffoon you really are? Whoever replied to you in here, be it Mr. Kaplan or someone else, you've been made into a monkey's uncle.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Kaplan asks, "My dear gasrdener [sic], let me ask you something: if it's a case of going to war for profit, certainly Congress could just legislate to give the money to Halliburton as you claim rather than going to war."

Obviously you could not be so naive. The additional resource of Iraqi oil is not included in your equation. Nor is the drive for U.S. hegemony over the world. And while the American people sometimes put up with up-front giveaways to the rich such as the S and L scandal and bailout, those in power know this cannot be a consistent way of doing things. Generally there needs to be a reason, no matter how bad, for what our tax dollars are spent on.

War is good for a few people making money. Bad for over 100,000 dead Iraqis, bad for 1,200 dead American soldiers, bad for the devastated country of Iraq, bad for social programs in the United States.

But you would not see that would you Agent Kaplan, you think any policy killing Arabs is a good policy.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Argue is no buffoon, he is a courageous speaker for peace.
 

Clarification

It wasn't me who posted the last "Critical Thinker" comment, but I of course am content to see another concur that Steve Argue is a buffoon and am positively amused at the embedded humorous jab at him.
 

Fake Posts

This post was falsely attributed to my name:

"I would like to make a public apology to Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan. After doing some fact checking on information in my earlier posts attacking Israel, I discovered my information was indeed not correct and in many instances untruthful. I found a lot of the information on anti-Israel websites, but after doing better research I now know they are not true. Mea culpa. Again, my apologies."

Likewise the posts supposedly by Paul LaRudee and Alison Weir put up at the same time as mine are also surely fakes. I ask IndyMedia editors to remove the post falsely attributed to me and consider removing the two others.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

To Indymedia editors:

The parent article above contains libelous information that Alison Weir received death threats mentioning our group or support of our group. This is a blatant lie. If you do not remvoe the offending passage, we will take legal action against Indymedia for irresponsibly publishing it. You should ahve been sued earlier for printing the same lie.You can verify the truth with the Berkeley Police Department, then we advise you print a retraction and apology.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Once again Lee Kaplan has falsely attributed a post to my name:

"Again, I wish to apologize to indymedia readers. The above post is a fake and I canot speak for Alison Weir or Paul LaRudee. The information I wrote earlier on indymedia was not accurate in condemning Israel and that is not right. My apologies were sincere. I realize I will get a lot of flack for this, but so be it."

Regarding Paul LaRudee and Alison Weir, I have contacted them so that they can deny these posts themselves.

As for my "psychiatrist", I can assure everyone that I have none, nor have I ever had sexual relations with that cactus.

Lee Kaplan, you have lost the debate and now appear to be very desperate to divert people's attention from what has been said.
 

falsely attributed posts

santa cruz indymedia editorial volunteers reserve the right to hide posts which are obviously incorrect or misleading. This includes attempts to spread dis-information or to impersonate another individual.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Indymedia has posted on this site that death threats were made to Alison Weir which allegedly mentioned DAFKA. As this is false and libelous,
the comments in the "expose" are to be removoed immediately or DAFKA's attorneys will take legal action against Santa Cruz Indymedia. You can verify with the Berkeley police department that DAFKA was not mentioned on any messages sent to Alison Weir. The posting above is testament that you can edit incorrect and libelous material and if it is not done immediately we definitely will take legal action against Santa Cruz Indymedia.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

What a joke Indymedia is. They print lies and disinformation about Israel, but censor comments they don't like. Obviously as a website in intellectual discourse, this site is a joke.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"falsely attributed posts
by sc-imc volunteer 25 Dec 2004
santa cruz indymedia editorial volunteers reserve the right to hide posts which are obviously incorrect or misleading. This includes attempts to spread dis-information or to impersonate another individual. "

THe above quote by an Indymedia volunteer shows how this website is bulshit. The alleged "expose"
above is written by someone who uses a false name and does not identify themselves. It also contains libelous material in it. Indymedia is worthless as a news organziation and will hear from DAFKA's attorneys.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

This is the stupidest thread I've seen on Indymedia and I've seen plenty. Steven Argue's
information is not correct or truthful. Period.
As for the expose, it's pretty sily also. Just what was exposed? Indymedia, can't you do any better?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven, as a Jewish member of the Santa Cruz community I agree you hate Jews and just mask that hate by calling us "Zionists.." Why don't you just slither away...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I bet Steven Argue is this WIlliam Wallace jerkoff. Does anyone have anything interesting to
discuss on here?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I went to the DAFKA website at www.dafka.org and watched some amazing videos including the beheading of Daniel Pearl. It's under Palestinian media. I don't see how anyone who has viewed such films can support
the attacks on Israel. Very frightening.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

For the record I am not William Wallace, and Lee Kaplan should stop pretending to be Paul LaRudee, Alison Weir, and me.

Here I take the time to answer a few more questions from Lee Kaplan. I'm sure that he and the many names he writes under won't appreciate it, but perhaps some others will.

Lee Kaplan wrote, “Israel is a Jewish state, yes, but also a secular democracy ranked as democratic as the US and the UK.?

In response I said, “Who gives such rankings? The United States with its violations of the 1965 voting rights act, rigged elections, and political prisoners is far from democratic. Israel is much worse.?

Lee Kaplan says, “The above paragraph shows what a buffoon you are, Steve. Can you prove a rigged election.?

Steven Argue Replies: Yes I can. The following links will be useful:

Bush Regime Maintains Power Through Electoral Fraud
By Steven Argue
santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/12684/index.php

Proof of Ohio Election Fraud Exposed
By William Rivers Pitt
www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

Lee Kaplan asks, “Does the constitution provide for the elctroal [sic] college??

Steven Argue responds, apparently it does, although I have not studied the constitution on this question, but even if it is constitutional this does not make the Electoral College democratic.

Lee Kaplan states, “I also submit that as a commuist [sic] revolutionary in Santa Cruz you support overseas dictatorships.?

Steven Argue replies: I do not back the lack of democracy anywhere in the world. For my actual positions please read:

On North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam
By Steven Argue
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/13243/index.php

You have also accused me of being a Stalinist, and someone else in this thread called me a Trotskyist. For my actual thoughts on this please read:

The Negative And Positive Lessons Of October 1917
By Steven Argue
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/13245/index.php

Lee Kaplan states, “Steve. As for "political prisoners" in the US, Steve, who might they be??

Steven Argue replies: Some of the most famous are Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Sherman Austin, Jerry Dale Lowe, Chuck Africa, Michael Davis Africa, Debbie Sims Africa, Janet Holloway Africa, Janine Africa, Delbert Orr Africa, Edward Goodman Africa, William Phillips Africa, Ed Poindexter, Wopashitwe Mondo Eyen we Langa, Jamal Hart, and Jamal Holiday.

For more on Mumia Abu-Jamal please read:
Yet Another Witness Comes Forward and Refutes The Frame-Up Of Mumia Abu-Jamal!
By Steven Argue
www.freemumia.com/policecoercion.html

Lee Kaplan then claims, “Israel's society by the way has no death penalty.?

Of course this is complete nonsense, everyone knows that the Israeli government carries out summary executions all of the time. This has been documented by human rights organizations in Jenin and elsewhere. And we should not forget the poor people of Sabra and Shatila.

In the 1982 case of the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Lebanon, Palestinians were rounded up and systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops and their Phalangist Militia allies.

As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on the Israeli governments war crimes, "The Lebanese forces militia [Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth. The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting, 'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4 PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again."
 

Zionist death threat

Zionist death threat

LOCAL MIDDLE EAST activist Alison Weir was the subject of a death threat Oct. 5, [2003] the day after participating in a debate at UC Berkeley during which Weir said the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would only be resolved when U.S. tax dollars ceased flowing to Israeli militarists.

A message left on the voice mail of the activist group If Americans Knew, where Weir is the executive director, said, "me and my buddies ... were trained in the Israeli army, and we support DAFKA [a Bay Area pro-Israeli student coalition]. We will come and kill every single one of you sons of bitches for what you are doing to destroy Israel."
 

When he finally gets to discuss Israel,

he reverts to his buffoonery, throwing truth and rational argument, let alone reason, out the window.

First, he relies on the mendacious testimony of his apparently like mninded "human rights organizations" pals. Truth of the matter is that not only are "summary executions" by Israeli troops rare, to date there's only one proven case -- that of the 13 year old girl in the Gaza strip.
But note also how the mendacious idiot projects the Israeli law system onto the military echelon as he has no other way to defame Israel on this issue.

Next, the arch-clown proves himself worthy of his certificate as an avowed liar by accusing Israeli troops of direct collusion in the Sabra & Shatila massacre he digs up from the past.

I for one hope a legal showdon will take place and Steven Argue will end up losing his residence and the rest of his property to cover the legal expenses he might be slapped with, just like what occurred to the neo-Nazi "historian", David Irving. Argue certainly is no neo-Nazi, but he sure shares their flair of irrational and compulsive defamation of Zionism and Israel. If he ends up paying a steep price for his hateful obsession, poetic justice will have been served.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The previous statements attributed to me in this chain are quite false. I have no idea who did this. Sadly, however, I find this type of deception typical of some pro-Israel activists and "journalists."

For people interested in learning about the Israel-Palestine issue, I urge you to read the information at our website: www.ifamericansknew.org

Since this is Christmas and I am spending it with my family, I will now be signing off. To Lee Kaplan / whoever is sending out these false posts: Please step outside your door, enjoy the day, and join with the growing numbers of us working toward justice and a more peaceful and compassionate world.

False statement:

"I would like to point out that in the above expose it states I received a death threat from DAFKA. I would like to clairfy that while a death threat was left on my answering machine at one time, it mentioned in no way the group DAFKA nor anyone affiliated with that group. The Berkeley Police Department has a copy of the tape and can verify that. Please do not associate my name or my group's name with false rumors. -Alison Weir"
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

You Zionists are outrageous! You libel us with statements that you write up and put our names on pretending they were made by us. You accuse me of smoking pot without a shred of evidence. You accuse us of being anti-Semites, not just for demanding Palestinian rights, but you claim that I made anti-Jewish statements that I never made. You make death threats. You infiltrate organizations. You brag about passing yourselves off as Arabs to carry out your activities, and then feature repentant “Arabs? on your television show.

Then after all of this deceit, when it comes to me offering evidence of the Israeli government carrying out mass murder of unarmed civilian prisoners at Sabra and Chatila, all you can do is respond saying, “The arch-clown proves himself worthy of his certificate as an avowed liar…? Yet as usual they offer no evidence of how I am lying.

I know I do not need to lie to promote justice. To me the pursuit of the truth is equal to the pursuit of justice. Dafka, Lee Kaplan, and Becky Johnson obviously have a different outlook on the world. To them the truth obviously does not matter. This is sad.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Your website continues to claim that Alison Weir received a deaththreat that mentioned DAFKA. Ms. Weir did report a deaththreat after a debate in Berkeley. She did not report DAFKA was mentioned on the tape andthe Berkeley PD havea copy of the message. IF this is not retracted by Santa Cruz
Indymedia, you can expect to hear from our lawyers. And that is a promise.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"I know I do not need to lie to promote justice. To me the pursuit of the truth is equal to the pursuit of justice. Dafka, Lee Kaplan, and Becky Johnson obviously have a different outlook on the world. To them the truth obviously does not matter. This is sad. "

THe above quote is ver funny given Steven Argue's persistent lies in his vilification of Israel (genocide) etc. Steve obviously is a communist style propagandist.

Kudos to Becky and this Lee Kaplan for exposig the Jew-haters in Santa Cruz. Steven Argue's idea of prmoting "justice" is to support terrorists who murder people and call for the detstruction of the pluralistic democratic country of Israel.

I for one will urge my friends to watch Club Cruz. It will be a breath of fresh air.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

We wish to advise Alison Weir that she will be named in a lawsuit for claiming DAFKA was mentioned in any threats she may or may not have received over the phone in the past unless she specifies that DAFKA was not mentioned. If she fails to do so, she will be named in a lawsuit through our attorney as well as Indymedia. In addtion, her organization, IfAmericansKnew, like Steven Argue, engages in false statistics and misinformation regarding ISrael. THe woman is not a peace advocate advising a settlement in the Middle East, but a propagandist against Isael calling for the dismantling of Israel.

Ms. Weir, consider this posting a warning to tell the truth, which is no doubt very ahrd for someone like yourself.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

This website is a joke. It spouts lies about Israel, praises communist revolutionaries and
complains about Jews. Alternative press my arse.
Who could take any of this seriously?
 

Sabra and Shatila AGAIN!!??

Steve, so you have to go all the way back to 1982 to find a massacre to pin on the Israelis. And you have to fudge the facts to make even THAT work. They were not "innocent Palestinians" since a day or two before a group of them went into a Lebanese camp and murdered 65 men, women, and children. When the Lebanese Phalanx came up the road to the camp where the murderers were hiding, Ariel Sharon let them through. It was the Lebanese army that killed the Palestinians. Not a single IDF soldier killed anyone. Sharon was later disciplined by his own govt. who ruled that he should have known what the Lebanese were about to do and he should have tried to stop them.

Fast forward to Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. In 1994, right after signing the Oslo Accords with Israel, Arafat rounded up any Palestinians who had been part of the Israeli govt. occupation between 1967 and 1993 and had them shot in the public sports stadium in a public execution. And that was only the beginning. Arafat's minions sent over 100 suicide bombers into Israel proper to kill innocent civilians. And Steve Argue calls the Israelis violent?

When Israel performs a targeted execution of a known terrorist, it is only after it is deemed impossible to capture and put the perpetrator on trial that Israel is forced to go the next step and kill them outright.

These are people who have already killed and are planning new attacks, so these executions are all about saving lives.

When Israel can arrest the suspected terrorist, then they are put on trial like a civilized country with no death penalty.

As for my fake Arabs: see www.shoebat.com and www.noniedarwish.com

Note to Critical Thinker: No I do not know Hebrew but would very much like a translation of what you wrote above.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Fascinating that this thread still continues. The Berkeley DAFKA crew asked me to comment on some things above:
1) Alison Weir did not receive any threats from DAFKA. The recording she supposedly turned over to Berkeley police cntianed no mention of DAFKA.
However, it looks like Alison doesn't mind letting people think it did. Considering the lies and misrepresentations this divorced mother of three from Suasalito and San Rafael as decided to make her new career, I am not surprised. I've advised the Berkeley DAFKA they can count on me to testify if they pursue the matter legally. I referred them to a good attorney. Note: Alison's website contains graphs with inaccurate information. She is also a warmonger like Steven Argue claiming she is sekking peace--by destroying Israel and promoting
Arab-Muslim hegemony voer the region. She was and is a supporter of the murderer Yasser Arafat.
These are very scik people who pose as "peace advocates" then support terrorism. They are nt misguided either.

2)In correction to Becky (if it was Becky): I urge people to go to www.dafka.org and click on the left "Arabs Speak Out." If anyone wants the truth about Sabra and Chatilla they can read the account by Tarek Farage who was present there.

The correct fatalities at Sabra and Chatilla were
880 Palestinians killed--many were armed PLO terrorists but there were civilians killed as well. Becky is wrong about the casualty figures from Damour, the Christian Arab village wiped out the week before by the PLO. In stead of 65
it was in fact about 660 murdered civilian women and children. Arafat described the massacre a week before Sabra and Chatilla as a "political move" during the Lebanese Civil War. For propagandists like Steven Argue and Alsion Weir
the PLO story of massacred Palestinians has gone through several transformations:

The casualty figures at Sabra and Chatilla at first were inflated to 1,000 dead. Now these clowns run ads and write that 30,000 Palestinains were murdered. The figure of 30,000 is closer to the number killed by Jordan's King Hussein which moved the PLO into Lebanon where they helped precipitate a Civil War. Readers here should note Lebanon back then was a CHristian nation jsut as Israel is a Jewish one.
The Muslim dominated PLO managed to tip the Muslim scale in that country which resulted in teh Lebanese Civil War. The PLO committed many atrocities against the Christians. The same thing is going on now against the Jews in Israel.
Also, not one Israeli soldier was involved in the killings at Sabra and Chatilla. Those were done by the Christian militias taking vengeance for Damnour. The Christians were allied with the IDF and Ariel Sharon ahd control over the region.
Rather than risk his own soldiers in the narrow
casbahs of the camps, he let the Christian proxies go in. He was indicted by an Israeli court and found "indirectly responsible" for not appreciating that the Christians would want vengeance for Damour. He was forced to resgin his position as isrel's Defense Minister. That is, he lost his job, not a small punishment. Contrast this with Arafat and the PLO leadership that has murdered people in cold blood on buses that nary merits a condemnation from Steven Argue or Alison Weir.

Part of the continuation of this war is the disinformation put out by people like Argue and Alison Weir. Their motivations are not peace, but to destroy Israel, they say that but always in euphemisitic terms (peace will be the end of the Jewish democracy). Argue is a self-proclaimed communist who adopts the anti-capitalist idea that the Jews are the capitalists of the world and embraces Islamic hate of Jews much as the KGB promoted in the 60's and 70's. ALison Weir is just a divorced momma of three, someone who is not very bright, and found a new career attacking Jews. She gets to fly all over the US promoting hatred of Israel and lying about America's investment in a
country that brings back considerable profit to the USA (not to mention a democratic ally in a totalitarian part of the world).

I invite indymedia readers to visit www.dafka.org and click on Palestinian media and watch Palestinian television. WHO EXHORTS YOUNG CHILDREN TO KILL? The murders on the tapes are frequently Arabs on Arabs precisely because they advocated peace with the Jews. The films do not lie like Argue and Weir.

Becky and I will be discussing such people on the Cruz Report. We will identify them to the Santa Cruz community. If anyone reading this is truly a "peace activist" or wants to see peace in the Middle East, we will show you how to work toward that goal. But listening to the doublespeak of such people with a goal not to a settlement, but the end of a Jewish refuge and democracy in the Middle East with a pluralisitic society while working for Arab dictators and theocrats is not the read to a settlement. The RCNV in Santa Cruz works toward that goal, as does Steven Arguea nd Alsion Weir, who, quite frankly, are deliberate liars.

It's been fun reading the posts in here (even ones attributed to me). Alison Weir's lying abut death thrreats to her that never occurred and can be verified by the Berkeley PD are particularly of interest. Steven Argue's history, replete with inaccuracies and even created quotes by earliest Zionist leaders he culled from the internet are also laughable were they not so deadly in continuing the terror war/

The Bay Area has a large contingent of these people. They are really "war activists" for the Islamo-fascists and we continue to expose them for what they are on Becky's show. Please tune in. You'll learn a lot!

And if you genuinely support peace and social justice and democracy, support Israel so that peace in the Middle East can become a reality,
not people who use communist sloganeering to perpetuate endless war.

If it's information you really want, Indymedia is not the place to findit truthfuly displayed. If it's peace in the Middle East you want, it's understanding why it is so elusive and why people
like Argue and Weir strive to make it an impossibility savewithout destroying a Jewish homeland that is also a democracy with all its citizens, both Jew and non-Jew alike. ALways bear in mind that people like Argue support dictatorships and totalitarian control. Weir just ain't very bright but is making a ncie living attacking Jews. Both call Jews "Zionists" so they can attack Jews while claiming not to be biased. If people fall for that one, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell them.

One last note: Becky Johnson is a leftist and she and I frequently disagree on political issues. I myself am a moderate and do not have conservative views; I'm more of a libertarian.
But I know bullshit when I see it and these "peace activists" are bullshitting people
because they really want to promote war on Israel's Jews until they either flee or succumb.
My main point is that as leftist as Becky Johnson
is--and she's not Jewish--she also recognizes
bullshit when she sees and hears it. Unfortunately there are even some communists and anarchists who abandoned Judaism long ago but like to claim their ancestry as a tool to try and persecute other Jews. These aren't much different from the Jews in the Nazi death camps who sent fellow Jews to the ovens. They contrast sharply with liberal Jews who sincerely want Israel to exist as a Jewish democracy. The ones who call for a right of return, who support the likes of Arafat, etc are the ones to watch out for and we will also expose them on Becky's Show.

Any way, here's hoping you all tune in to Club Cruz on Wednesdays in Santa Cruz...expect lots of fireworks as we do a genuine expose of these people and make some changes in the Santa Cruz community.
 

To Becky Johnson

While Steve Argue is the compulsively obsessed oaf repeatedly uttering lies here, you have a few details in error regarding the Sabra & Shatila massacre. Let's get the facts right so the likes of the buffoon Argue won't have pretexts to accuse all the "Zionists" of being disinfo artists.

Most or all the Palestinians murdered during that incident were innocents rather than PLO gunmen. Not the Lebanese army, but the Christian-Lebanese Phalange militia committed the massacre. As many as 35 women and children were among the massacred; the death toll ranged from 460 to 800. For more details, see palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_sabra_shatila.php (in case you aren't familiar with that website, I assure you it is truth-friendly).


I've visited the "Arabs for Israel" website and seen a few more "fake" Arabs like Brigitte Gabriel. The existence of such Arabs irks the Steven Argues to no end, hence their desperate attempts to suggest their non-existence or belittle their gospel.

The message I wrote in Hebrew is almost entirely a literal translation of what I had posted on www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1710529_comment.php . You're most welcome in advance.
 

To Steven Argue, the compulsive liar who never relents.

To the man who persistently tries in vain to fool others into not seeing the immense gulf he has created between himself and reality:

Boy, do you continually whip up a facade of innocence. The knight in shining white armor undertaking an ongoing crusade for justice and truth is unable to understand why others are so insistent on resisting his attempts to thrust the truth upon their ignorant souls, huh?
You haven't offered ANY valid evidence showing any Israeli government committing mass murder anywhere at any time. Even your depiction of the slain Sabra & Shatila residents as "prisoners" is unadulterated hugwash. I and others have amply demonstrated how you're lying, but you, naturally, will disregard all the evidence showing you for the certified liar that you are as your morbid self doesn't give a s**t about truth when it comes to Israel and Zionism related topics.

I haven't looked into your pronouncements about Jews and Judaism, but wouldn't be astounded to find the accusations levelled at you on this issue correct as well.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

To Critical Thinker:

You hit the nail on the head, sir. Steven Argue is one of the hippie dippies in Santa Cruz who promotes himself as a communist and "human rights" activists. Meanwhile, he writes and talks up every brutal dictatorship in the world.
Who is this little punk, who lives in the beachfront community of Santa Cruz in our free democratic society of America and then tells Israelis on the otehr side of the world they must let their country be invaded by Islamic Arab hoardes who every day exclaim how they will kill them? Why isn't Argue demanding the Palestine Authority show some civility and arrest terrorists? Why doesn't he condemn suicide bombings instead of muttering qualifications to his denunciations? And why if he's such a communist doesn't he go live for a while in Cuba or North Korea? You know why? He'd come running home to sunny Santa Cruz shaking like a leaf.

These people are the worst of our society. They claim they are for peace but foment war. They say they are for human rights but try to enable those who really do enslave people overseas. And they speak in codes--never the truth. That is what I see in this garbage story and Steven Argue's ramblings. There are those of us in Santa Cruz who want to clean up this town. We got rid of Scott Kennedy (thanks to Becky's Show)
and we'll also get rid of these other low-lifes.
And they use "Zionist" interchangeably with "Jew." Becky's show has found them out. Has anyone seen those Palestinian TV clips on Becky's Show where children (My God! Children!) are taught to want to kill Jews?

I for one will tune in and tell my friends, Becky.
 

The Sabra and Shatila Massacre

Becky Johnson seems to think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre is not worth discussing because 1982 is supposedly ancient history. 1982 is hardly beyond the statute of limitations for crimes against humanity. I’m sure you don’t have the same attitude towards Nazi butchers of the Third Reich. While I could, and have, written about the most recent crimes of the Israeli government in Jenin and elsewhere, the Sabra and Shatila massacre is still worth talking about since the current crimes are only a continuation of the past. Likewise, Sharon’s guilt in the Sabra Shatila massacre is worth mentioning.

Becky Johnson shows here extreme ignorance by claiming that this massacre was carried out by the Lebanese government. The Lebanese government had nothing to do with it. The massacre was carried out both by the Israeli military under the command of Sharon and by Israel's allies in Lebanon, the Christian Phalangists.

With the testimony Mrs. Sersawi in the Belgium appeals court on the Israeli government’s war crimes, which I’ve posted twice, I've provided Becky Johnson with clear evidence of the involvement of both the Israeli government and Lebanese Christian Phalangists in this mass murder of unarmed civilians, many that had been slaughtered after being taken prisoner by Israel. Among the dead was Mrs. Sersawi’s husband. Yet you Becky have chosen to ignore this evidence I have provided you to absurdly claim that this mass murder was only the killing of 35 combatants and that it was the work of the Lebanese government.

I will post Mrs. Sersawi’s testimony here once again at the end of this writing.

Prior to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon both Ariel Sharon and Bashir Gemayel had declared that they would create a panic amongst Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon that would reduce the numbers living there from 500,000 to 50,000. The Sabra and Shatila massacre was part of this stated goal of ethnic cleansing.

Ha’aretz reported on September 26, 1982: “A long-term objective aimed at the expulsion of the whole Palestinian population of Lebanon beginning with Beirut. The purpose was to create a panic to convince [sic] all the Palestinians of Lebanon that they were no longer safe in that country.?

As such the people of Sabra and Shatila facing the Zionist slaughter of innocents, were to meet the same fate as the Palestinian towns of Dueima, Kibya, Kfar Qasim, and Deir Yassin from 1947 to 1950.

As Time Magazine admitted on October 4th, 1982, “On several occasions Gemayel told Israeli officials he would raze the camps and flatten them into tennis courts. This fits in with Israeli thinking. The Christian militia forces that were known to have gone into the camps were trained by the Israelis.?

Major Saqr of the Phalangist Militia bragged after the massacre, “The only way you will find out how many Palestinians we killed is if they ever build a subway under Beirut ... A good massacre or two will drive the Palestinians out of Beirut and Lebanon once and for all.? (Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post).

Yet the massacre was not just carried out by these murderous Phalangist militia trained and allied with Israel, Israeli forces were also directly involved.

On February 14, 1983 Der Spiegel carried an interview with one of the killers at Sabra and Shatila, who described direct Israeli participation along side his own. The article, entitled “Each of You Is An Avenger?, is a first person account of crimes against humanity:

“We met in the Schahrur wadi, in the valley of the nightingales Southeast of Beirut. It was Wednesday, the fifteenth of September ... We were approximately three hundred men from East Beirut, South Lebanon and the Akkar Mountains in the north ... I belonged to the Tiger Militia of ex-President Camile Chamoun.

“Phalange officers summoned us and brought us to the meeting place. They told us that they needed us for a “special action? ... “You are the agents of good,? the officers told us repeatedly. “Each of you is an avenger.? ...

“Then a good dozen Israelis in green uniforms without indication of rank came along. They had playing cards with them and spoke Arabic well, except that like all Jews they pronounced the hard “h? as “ch.? They were talking about the Palestinian camps Sabra and Shatila ... it was clear to us what we were to do, and we were looking forward to it.

“We had to swear an oath never to divulge anything about our action. At about 10 p.m. we climbed into an American army truck that the Israelis had given over to us. We parked the vehicle near the airport tower. There, immediately next to the Israeli positions, several such trucks were already parked.

“Some Israelis in Phalange uniforms were with the Party. “The Israeli friends who accompany you,? our officers told us “... will make your work easier.? They directed us not to make use of our firearms, if at all possible. “Everything must proceed noiselessly.? ... We saw other comrades. They had to do their work with bayonets and knives. Bloody corpses were lying in the alleys. The half-asleep women and children who cried out for help put our whole plan in danger, alarming the entire camp.

“Now I saw once again the Israelis who had been at our secret meeting. One signaled us to move back to areas of the camp entrance. The Israelis opened up with all their guns. The Israelis helped us with floodlights.

“There were shocking scenes that showed what the Palestinians were good for. A few, including women, had taken shelter in a small alley, behind some donkeys. Unfortunately we had to shoot down these poor animals to finish off the Palestinians behind them. It got to me when the animals cried out in pain. It was gruesome.

“A comrade entered a house full of women and children. The Palestinians screamed and threw their gas stoves on the ground. We sent the hard-hearted rabble to hell.

“At about four in the morning my squad went back to the truck. When there was morning light we went back into the camp. We went past bodies, stumbled over bodies, shot and stabbed all eyewitnesses. Killing others was easy once you have done it a few times.

“Now came the Israeli Army bulldozers. “Plow everything under the ground. Don’t let any witnesses stay alive.? But despite our efforts, the area was still teeming with people. They ran about and caused awful confusion. The order to “plow them under? demanded too much.

“It became clear that the pretty plan had failed. Thousands had escaped us. Far too many Palestinians are still alive. Everywhere now people are talking about a massacre and feeling sorry for the Palestinians. Who appreciates the hardships that we took upon ourselves ... Just think. I fought for twenty-four hours in Shatila without food or drink.?

Many of the mass graves were never opened, but over 3,000 people were murdered at Sabra and Shatila.

In addition to the scenes described above, Palestinians were also rounded up and systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops in a Lebanese stadium.

As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on the Israeli governments war crimes, "The Lebanese forces militia [Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth. The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting, 'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4 PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again."
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

As one of those "fake" Arabs, let me tell Mr. Argue he has no idea what he talks about. He is a man on a mission to help murderers, not preserve human rights. See below:

LEBANESE WOMAN DESCRIBES ARAB GOALS TOWARD CHRISTIANS AND JEWS



LEBANESE VICTIMS OF ARAB MURDER.



home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll=



The above link has many other interesting links ....



Lebanese Christian tells her story



Brigitte Gabriel on THE RICE REPORT...



THUR. Nov. 6th.2003 8 pm or 2400 World Time.



Brigitte will field question from our listeners as well.



Brigitte Gabriel is a Christian Lebanese Arab speaking out about the threat of militant Islam to America and Western civilization.
Brigitte is also a survivor of the Moslem versus Christian civil war in Lebanon



Brigitte has experienced first hand the religious war being waged against both Christians and Jews in America and in the rest of the world.



Ms. Gabriel grew up in war torn Lebanon, where the Moslems declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975.



The Lebanese Civil War was the first front in the worldwide Jihad of militant Islam against the only Christian influenced country in the Middle East.



Her family's home was shelled and destroyed leaving her wounded.



She lived underground in a bomb shelter from age 10 to age 17 without electricity and very little food.
She had to crawl under sniper bullets to a spring to fetch water for her family.



As fighting escalated, the Moslems overran all but hers' and a nearby town.



The besieged Christians turned to neighboring Israel for help.
The Israeli Defense Forces responded with food, water, and military support.



As Brigitte came in greater contact with Israel through soldiers and doctors brought to the hospital in her town, she began to see the human side of people her Arabic culture, government and society had told her were the "enemy" for many years.



During the Israeli army's "Operation Peace for Galilee" invasion of Lebanon in 1982, to push back terrorist attacks from Lebanon on its northern boarder, Moslem shells wounded her mother who was sent to a hospital in Zefat, Israel.



Brigitte experienced a deep compassion and life style from the Israelis she met that solidified her appreciation for Israel and fueled her determination to leave the Arab world.



She soon moved to Jerusalem and became anchor for "World News," an evening Arabic news broadcast for Middle East Television seen throughout Israel, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon.



She covered the Israeli withdrawal from central Lebanon, the Israeli Security Zone and the Palestinian uprising in the West Bank.



Her work is of international scope having brought her in contact with world figures such as Margaret Thatcher, George H. Bush, Queen Nour El Hussein, Itzak Rabine, and Shimon Perez. Brigitte lived in Israel from 1984 to 1989 and relocated to the Unites States. She is fluent in Arabic, French, English and Hebrew.



Her perspective comes from her experiences and those of other Arab Christians.



She sees what Moslems have done to Arab Christians as being indicative of Islamic intentions towards Israel and America.



Her inside information is enlightening for unsuspecting and uninformed western civilized thinking audiences. She has appeared on news and information TV shows, talk radio and made numerous public appearances.



Her views are seen as a pertinent warning to the West.
At this crucial time ACT believes that every American must become informed about who our enemy is,



Also, what their goals are and how far they are willing to go to accomplish those goals.



ACT is also concerned about what we should be doing as individuals and a nation to defend ourselves nationally and internationally.



In an effort to get this information out, ACT offers a riveting hour-long message by Ms. Gabriel in a tape titled
"The Threat of Islam to Western Civilization."
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN LEBANON

Please read my letter below:







An Open Letter to Human Rights Watch
From the Lebanese Foundation for Peace
"We Have Hundreds of Eye Witnesses to the Events at Sabra and Chatilla, Will You Call Them?"
(www.free-lebanon.com/LFPNews/Witnesses/witnesses.html)




Mr Hanny Megally
Human Rights Watch
350 Fifth Avenue, 34th Floor
New York, New York, 10118 USA
Telephone: (212) 216 1230
Facsimile: (212) 736 1300



June 28, 2001



Dear Mr Megally,



I feel it's my moral obligation to address your latest remarks on the Sabra & Chatilla affair asking President Bush to urge Prime Minister Sharon to cooperate with any investigation against him. I must take issue with your accusations that there is abundant evidence that war crimes and that crimes against humanity were committed at the Sabra and Chatilla Palestinian camps. You should know better, for as one of Egyptian origin who is expert in Arabic you realize the problem within the Islamic world of the problem in seeing events, truths, that have no significance to Islam and of the Islamic world ignoring other crimes of larger gravity that are not significant to the Muslim world.



Did you really assume that the Palestinians were attacked for no reason or that groups of civilian Christians suddenly developed a blood lust for Palestinians? Why did the Christians attack only Palestinians and not the Lebanese Muslims with whom they lived peaceably for centuries? The Christians have historically been a peaceful people who preferred to live in Lebanon in a historical balance with their Muslim neighbors, a friendly and respectable balance that existed until Yasir Arafat and his killers entered Lebanon.



Your myopic vision of the Sabra and Chatilla massacres ignores the massacres perpetrated by Yasser Arafat and his murderers against the Christian Lebanese. Let me remind you of some of Arafat's actions (I am an eye witness):





* The distribution of arms and money to the Islamists in Lebanon for the express purpose of subjecting the Christian Lebanese to ethnic cleansing.



* The massacre of the town of Chekka, in northern Lebanon, by Arafat forces, dozens of civilians, mostly Christians, were murdered and tortured by Arafat's hoodlums.



* In the massacre of the town of Damour, South of Beirut, dozens of Christians civilians were slaughtered, along with numerous rapes of young girls, were done by forces that came from those same Palestinian camps that you are defending.



* The massacre of the towns of Aintoura and Mtein, where groups of Palestinians murdered innocent Christian civilians solely because they were Christians .



* The daily assaults by the PLO forces against the Christian towns of Hadath, Ain-el Remmaneh, Jisr el Bacha, Dekaouneh, Beirut, and the Southern Metn, that resulted in hundred of Christian casualties murdered for defending their hometowns and existence. This was at a time when the Lebanese Government was paralyzed and could not send the Lebanese Army to halt the Palestinian atrocities due to Arab intervention in internal Lebanese affairs by the "Cairo" accords.



No, Mr Megally, Palestine's path to the submission of Lebanon does not begin at the Lebanese Christian Port of Junieh as stated in the famous phrase of Abu Ayad, Yasser Arafat second in command. There were no Israelis in Mount Lebanon to murder, they were all innocent Christian civilians massacred in hundreds of low intensity incidents (as in Israel today) just because they were Christians. The barbarism in Lebanon was an Arafat speciality. Christians were decapitated, girls were raped, parents and kids were murdered in the streets due to Palestinian military attacks against the Christians areas, as they refused to distinguish between adult men and women and children. All Christians, despite age or sex, were Palestinian targets. These were the same Palestinians we welcomed with open arms in 1948 with charity and our reward was death and torture.



Sabra and Chatilla was not a peaceful area where strangers entered for no reason and murdered innocent civilians. Sabra and Chatilla were one of the largest training centers for international terrorism. Most of the terrorists of the world visited the Sabra and Chatilla Camps in Beirut, received extensive training in terrorism, ranging from the use of plastic explosives to booby trapping cars, and special, assassination techniques given by well experienced followers of Yasser Arafat.



For example, the terrorist Red Brigades from Italy trained there, the terrorist Basque ETA movement, Carlos, Islamist mercenaries from Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, all came to those camps to be taught how to hijack planes, prepare bombs for use in Europe and elsewhere against US and Israeli embassies and missions. Sabra and Chatilla became known as the terror center in Beirut, whose mission was to export terror and subversion to the world. Many Lebanese were kidnaped to these camps and never returned alive.



The Christian Kataeb militias are no murderers Mr. Megally. They realized that the destruction of Lebanon by Palestinian hands could not continue and Lebanon could not be a training ground for international terror and murder. There was no proportionality in the two events as Sabra & Chatilla experienced about 800 executions, yet the Palestinians murdered 200,000 Lebanese on different occasions and places. Could you help open an investigation into the matter? Lebanese families, eye witnesses, will thank you and are eager to get their rights back in court from Arafat murderers if they have the chance. Can you arrange in the interests of justice to hear in the court in Belgium from hundreds of cases of Lebanese victims of Palestinian terrorism? Will you call as a witness Elias Hobeika a known Lebanese traitor and Syrian operative who incited the event without the knowledge or consent of Ariel Sharon in order to embarrass and blacken Ariel's Sharon's name?



Additional information you should be aware of is that sensitive information from Lebanese intelligence army sources show that Brigadier General Ghazi Kanaan, head of the Syrian Secret Service in Lebanon, is now pursuing a path of intimidation and threats through many channels against former Lebanese forces leaders to force them to testify in Lebanese courts against Ariel Sharon so as to relieve the pressure on Elias Hobeika.



No Christian Lebanese will apologize for the deaths of assassins and murders as their continued existence was at stake, and the Palestinian executions occurred with a deep revulsion for the taking of lives; however, these Palestinians were the victims of Yasir Arafat who precipitated the killings by supporting an existential evil that threatened the world. No Palestinian ever apologized for the destruction of Lebanon a country that hosted them with a friendly and open hands.



Sabra and Chatilla was no mistake, it was the Christian Community's inability to continue to suffer their extinction and their planned genocide that forced them to decide to halt once and for all Palestinian terrorism in Lebanon, a country that has suffered terribly from PLO terror while the world ignored us, making them willing accomplices. Don't blame the Christians or General Sharon. The Palestinians under Yasir Arafat and Elias Hobeika are responsible as well as a world that doesn't care.



Sabra and Chatilla is a nothing more than a political attempt by Yasser Arafat, backed by Hosni Mubarak and Saudi Arabia, to undermine and weaken Israel's Prime Minister Sharon. By doing so, they hope to force Israel to return to the concessions given by former Prime Minister Ehud Barak, an inexperienced, political player as compared to Prime Minister Sharon. This is a failed tactic that will lead nowhere as Sharon's political position is to encourage a meaningful peace in the Middle East and is much stronger than these failed maneuvers and lost attempts.



Mr Megally, your call to President Bush was inappropriate, as you failed to present the full picture of the past events by inappropriately judging one side and disregarding the offenses of the other party involved in the events, not to mention that Arafat who succeeded through the weakness of the Israeli left to import the chaos and revolution from his Tunisian exile to the heart of Israel.



Thank you,



Nagi N. Najjar
Director of the Lebanon Foundation for Peace
Email: najjar (at) free-lebanon.com
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

As a Jewish member of the Santa Cruz community, I find Steven Argue's obnoxious lies and substitution of the word "Zionist" for Jew
(We "Zionists" control the media and America, you know). Please won't someone take responsibility to edit his articles that are full of lies and false statistics. THese are the people that ruin beautiful Santa Cruz and turn it into a haven for crackpots and liars.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I am a fan of DAFKA. They were the only group at UC Berkeley to stand up to the Students For Justice in Palestine and were very effective. They screened films like Trojan Horse and other films that proved what the Arabs really want is not peace but to destroy Israel. DAFKA is great in my book.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Someone calling me a "big weenie" says, "I find Steven Argue's obnoxious lies and substitution of the word "Zionist" for Jew (We "Zionists" control the media and America, you know)."

As I have clearly shown in earlier posts, I am not the one telling lies here. And I have never said that the Zionists control the corporate media of America, although the corporate media does have a separate agenda that is more than friendly to Zionism.

I of course do not substitute the word Jew for Zionist. They are two very different terms. "Jew" refers to differing degrees to a religious, cultural, and language group that is now suffering because Zionism.

Zionism is a rabidly anti-Arab philosophy that says that a Jewish government (without a separation of church and state) is their god given right on Palestinian lands. Due to the Israeli settler state that has been established, this extremist nationalist movement has now become the ruling ideology in what was Palestine. As such Zionism opposes the most elementary political rights for the Palestinian people they have displaced and are at war with.

I do not equate Zionism with being a Jew. Likewise I do not equate Nazism with being German.

As for these Zionists on campus, please read:

Down With Zionist Witchhunt on Campus!
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/13408/index.php
 

Listen to the death threat itself

Information about the death threat -- and a recording of the threat itself -- are on our computer, and have been ever since we received it over a year ago: www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/death_threat.html

We're requesting that people listen to this recording, in the hope that someone will recognize the voice and be able to provide information on who threatened us. The police and FBI still have open files on this case.

Please forward this link to others.

Thanks to all those interested in helping us stand up to this attempted intimidation. Such threats have silenced people for decades. They will no longer work.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

First on the 48 war.
The Nakba was the result of the Palestinians, together with their Arab allies, to perform "ethnic cleansing" of the Jews , and their failure to accomplish it.

On Sabra and Chatilla.
Not one single Israeli killed any Arab there.
What you had in Sabra and Chatilla, was Arabs killing Arabs, which happens everyday in the Arab world.

Sharon had nothing to do with the killings at Sabra and Chatilla. Elie Hobeika was the person who ordered the killings and not Ariel Sharon. What you didn't tell people, after Sabra and Chatilla, Hobeika was put under protection by Assad in Lebanon.

After Syria invaded and took over Lebanon in 1990. Hobeika was rewarded by Assad for his actions in Sabra and Chatilla and put in the Lebanese parliament for 10 years.

It was then learned by Hobeika's bodyguard, (Roger Hatem), Elie Hobeika was a Syrian agent in the 82 War. Hatem was Hobeika's bodyguard for 10 years. Roger Hatem wrote a book called, from Israel to Damascus. You can read the book on his website. pages.prodigy.net/vladrjr/Cobra/welcome2.html

Hatem documents, how Hobeika ordered the killings at Sabra and Chatilla to make Israel look bad, so Syria could control Lebanon. The only reason why the Christians went along with Hobeika's orders, was to avenge the thousands of Christians, who were killed by the PLO in Damour Lebanon and because the Lebanese Christian President Gamayel was just killed.

2nd, in 1985, the Syrian backed Amals Shiites, attacked the same Sabra camp and killed 650 Arabs. Ofcourse when Arabs kill each other, no one cares. What Hatem documents in his book. Sharon told Hobeika only to go after the armed PLO gunman in Sabra. Sharon made very clear to Hobeika not to target any civilians. Hobeika agreed to the orders. Then Hobeika gave his own orders to his men. Kill anyone they see in Sabra. Hobeika did this, to make Israel look bad, so Syria could control Lebanon.
If the Arabs are so concerned about the people killed in Sabra and Chatilla, why did Syria and Lebanon protect the person who ordered the killings. (Elie Hobeika).

Why did Syria put Hobeika in the Lebanese parliament?
Why didn't Syria or Lebanon prosecute Hobeika? Maybe there worred, he would tell the truth. Which is, Hobeika under orders from Assad was responsible. What you had in Sabra and Chatilla was Arabs killing Arabs. Not one single Israeli killed any Arab there.

Why dont you do a story about Damour lebanon. Or does Palestinian attrocties not bother you.

www.israelnewsagency.com/arafatterrorismisrael123115.html
During the 12 year Civil War in Lebanon, caused by Yassir Arafat's assuming power through terror, his terrorists committed mass murder. Whole villages of Christians like Damour were massacred, chopped into pieces with machetes. Out of the 30,000 Christians, 10,000 were slaughtered by Arafat's PLO. The town was then occupied and kept as Arafat's stronghold. David Shipler of the New York Times wrote the story of Damour June 21, 1982. There were individual murders. One horrific, but typical, example is when the Muktar (leader) of a village refused to be cooperative with Arafat and his terrorists. The Muktar's teenage daughter was abducted and raped. Her breasts were cut off and she was delivered to the doorstep of her father in a sack.
In any hospital controlled by Arafat's terrorists, captured Christians became live blood banks for wounded Palestinians. Israeli soldiers who captured these hospitals found bodies drained of all their blood and stacked, like cordwood in the hallways.
 

Why is no one talking about the Kurds

Amazing article to read. How come you left wing frauds are silent on the Kurds. I guess they dont fit your propaganda.
A great site about the Kurds is
_www.kurdishmedia.com

www.kurdmedia.com/reports.asp
A Darfur warning for the Kurds

In Darfur, Sudan, the crime "ethnic cleansing" of indigenous black Africans by the Arab Sudanese government is committed. Despite widespread publicity to the conflict in Darfur, the Arabs seem comfortable in their continued pursuit of ethnic cleansing. Sudan knows that people are just talking but not taking action. Sudan is a member of the Arab League and the Organization of Islamic Countries yet both these organizations seem to care less about what Sudan is up to.

If such blatant ethnic cleansing by an Arab state can take place in broad daylight, what can be expected if after the Americans leave Iraq, when Arab and Muslim states of Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey decide once and for all to permanently settle the Kurdish issue? Who then would the Kurds turn too? America will not be bothered about the Kurds once it leaves Iraq altogether. For all we know, America has probably struck a deal with the Arabs to guarantee them the oilfields in the north. Who then would the Kurds turn to? Syria and Turkey are forging closer diplomatic ties; the Islamists Iraqis are expected to gain power come election time; and from within, the Arabs have infused certain Kurdish groups with a high dosage of Arabic loyalty. Who then would the Kurds turn to, Britain or America, which has a history of abandoning the Kurds at their most needed hours? The United Nations which incidentally tries to very hard to avoid the use of the "Kurd" word at the highest levels of its organisation?

Even certain Kurds believe that with Turkey potentially being an EU member, human rights might improve for the Kurds. Once Turkey joins EU, the doors are permanently shut for northern Kurdistan to secede from Turkey. The EU will not allow its borders to be altered. As with NATO, EU members are bound to defend another member state in the event if the security and territorial integrity of a member state is under threat. The benefits for the Kurds if Turkey joins EU are still subject to open debate as it can go either way. The Kurds do not rank highly on the priority list of Europe.

The Kurds are ignored worldwide on the political scene and by the media. The Kurds are not considered to be on the same status as Palestine. The Middle East is solely about the stability of the Arab states which includes Palestine. The Islamic Republic of Iran can commit as many crimes as it wants, yet no international Islamic organization or member country has accused Iran of violating human rights. The reality is simple - any Islamic state in the world has been allowed to commit serious crimes for the simple fact that they are Muslims.

Given the above pondering on the reality of matters, there are 22 Arab states with another potential in the making, giving rise to a total 23 Arab states. The Kurdish territories comprise the eastern Kurds in Iran, the southern Kurds in Iraq, the western Kurds in Syria, and the northern Kurds in Turkey. 4 Kurdish "countries" and the Arabs, Persians, and Turks refuse to let even one be independent! There are 23 Arab states and not even one Kurdish state.

I believe the timing now would be right for southern Kurdistan to declare full independence. The Kurds in power in southern Kurdistan can sleep easy if they declare independence because the mandate has been given to them by the vast majority of Kurds to secede. The Kurdish political parties actually have a mandate to secede and declare independence! But what do the two main Kurdish parties do? The KDP-PUK apparently feels that it has not been given the green light by the Arabs and the UN to press ahead for independence. It seems that the KDP-PUK actions seem more heavily lenient to any mandate given by Arabs and Turks. It questions the Kurdish identity of both KDP-PUK of whom they serve? I would say if I were in either Barzani or Talabani’s shoes, I would not hesitate to call for independence given that I know that I would have a staggering possibility of more than 90% mandate of southern Kurdistan’s population to secede and create an independent Kurdish state.

So I wonder, why would the KDP-PUK be so concerned about the sentiments of Arabs and Turks? Only Barzani and Talabani can answer.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Alison, why don't you admit you had that tape made yourself. You are funded by the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee to lie about Israel, and lie you do. Nothing you say can be taken seriously.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Note how if you listen to the recording on Alison Weir's website DAFKA is not mentioned although the article posted for this thread says it was. Lie, lie, lie to foment revolution.

As for Argue. His above quotes:
"As I have clearly shown in earlier posts, I am not the one telling lies here." (Oh? ANd you didn't say Israel commits genocide when the Arab population inside Israel and the territories has always increased and Israel funds 70% of the PA?) And I have never said that the Zionists control the corporate media of America, although the corporate media does have a separate agenda that is more than friendly to Zionism.(Hey, Pinnochio, you've ranted about Jewish control in America continually, the same as from Ramallah).

I of course do not substitute the word Jew for Zionist. They are two very different terms. "Jew" refers to differing degrees to a religious, cultural, and language group that is now suffering because Zionism. (Steve, you are a shmuck. Zionism means a Jewish refuge and homeland. For 2,000 years at Passover Jews recited "next year in Jerusalem." You are not Jewish but define Judaism. You really are a shmuck. This trying to seperate Judaism from Zionism was started by the Soviet Union in conjunction with the PLO in the 60's and 70's when the PLO worked with the Arabs. Jsut as you are a jerky gardener in Santa Cruz telling Jews in Israel they msut lvie under Islamofascist hegemony, you are a shmuck telling Jews what is Jewish to make destroying Israel sound like it's not anti-Jewish. Nobody buys your bullshit except wannabe revolutioanry communist assholes like yourself.

Honestly, these people have no morla fiber. Terrorists and murderers are lauded by them and dictators are their heroes. Sickening....

Zionism is a rabidly anti-Arab philosophy that says that a Jewish government (without a separation of church and state) is their god given right on Palestinian lands. Due to the Israeli settler state that has been established, this extremist nationalist movement has now become the ruling ideology in what was Palestine. As such Zionism opposes the most elementary political rights for the Palestinian people they have displaced and are at war with.

I do not equate Zionism with being a Jew. Likewise I do not equate Nazism with being German
 

Sabra And Shatila Was The Work Of Israel

Dan makes the absurd claim that President Hafez al-Assad had something to do with the Sabra and Shatila massacre. Somehow, he says, this was some kind of set up by him to make Israel look bad. Yet he gives no evidence.

I have given evidence and references of the direct involvement of the Israeli military as well as their indirect involvement through the Christian Phalangist militias that Israel trained, armed, and was in close contact with. Besides giving you quotes of eyewitness testimony I established that both the Christian Phalangist militias that Israel also had the stated goal of driving the Palestinians out of Lebanon.

I could give more, including references on how the whole area was sealed off and controlled by the Israeli military, but I will save that until a more serious attempt at an argument that President Hafez al-Assad was involved is made. Until then I will just refer people back to my previous writing:

“The Sabra and Shatila Massacre? santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/13623
 

the death threat

If you listen to the recording on Alison Weir's website DAFKA is not mentioned although the article posted for this thread says it was.

This article exposing Lee Kaplan has cited an article on sfbg.com called "Zionist death threat" gives this description of the recorded death threat:

A message left on the voice mail of the activist group If Americans Knew, where Weir is the executive director, said, "me and my buddies ... were trained in the Israeli army, and we support DAFKA [a Bay Area pro-Israeli student coalition]. We will come and kill every single one of you sons of bitches for what you are doing to destroy Israel."

That article is dated October 8, 2003. It seems reasonable to ask people at sfbg.com why information about the recording in the "Zionist death threat" article does not currently match the recording itself as posted on the If Americans Knew website.

Here is an example of Santa Cruz Indymedia and open-publishing helping people work together to uncover the truth.
 

On Genocide and Lee Kaplan's Idea Of Honesty

Lee Kaplan has once again repeated his slander against me saying, "You've ranted about Jewish control in America continually."

Yet this liar has yet to produce anything with me saying anything like that despite me challenging him to do so. He then has the nerve to call me a liar. Likewise he has put up posts under my name and the names of others that are not from us. Is this honest?

Lee Kaplan also falsely claims that there is no policy of Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people.

The Merriam-Webster definition of GENOCIDE is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

This is what the U.S. government continues to carry out against the Native American population, but their numbers have also continued to increase.

Likewise genocide is exactly what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinian people through population transfers carried out through murder, the theft of property, and many acts of Israeli terror, humiliation, and economic warfare.
 

Bandwidth problem, editors?

My post hasn't properly loaded for the second time in a row. Feel free to delete my two posts above and kindly fix the problem.
 

Steven and Sabra and Chatilla

Steven, you say I make the absurd claim that President Hafez al-Assad had something to do with the Sabra and Shatila massacre.
You didn't listen did you.
The person who ordered the Sabra and Chatilla killings was Elie Hobeika.
There is no dispute over this.
Why did Assad give Hobeika refuge after Hobeika ordered the killings.
Roger Hatem who was Hobeika's bodyguard, documented how Hobeika ordered the killings, because Hobeika was working for Assad.
Hobeika was a double agent in the Lebanon war.
Hobeika wanted to make Israel look bad, so Syria could control Lebanon. This is why Hobeika ordered the killings.
Remember, not one single Israeli killed any Arab there. No Israeli commander ever ordered any civilians to be killed.
Hobeika and Assad did that.
 

Paul LaRudee Exposes More Lee Kaplan Capers

Dear Paul LaRudee,

The following statement on Santa Cruz IndyMedia was attributed to Paul LaRudee, and I believe falsely so:

“As a member of Norcal ISM I would like to interject here that Lee Kaplan are Becky Johnson, while I do not agree with their political views, are both upstanding and honest journalists and deserve proper respect as such. Personal attacks are not warranted on indymedia.?

Lee Kaplan and Becky Johnson are rabidly anti-Arab Zionists incapable of anything worthy of the name journalism.

Sincerely, Steven Argue

***********
Paul LaRudee Responds:

Steven Argue,

You're absolutely right; I never made that statement. Was it Lee who attributed it to me? If so, it would hardly be the first time he fabricated information.

Still, I'm inclined not to be very concerned about it. Kaplan is not taken seriously by mainstream media, even the most pro-Israeli, precisely because his information is not reliable. Put yourself in their place. What would you think of someone who shows up at the Palestine Solidarity Conference wearing dark foundation and a fake beard? His brand of journalism/comedy is not likely to catch on except among the most desperate and paranoid racists who are willing to believe anything.

Thanks for defending the truth.

Paul Larudee


****************
Steven Argue,

Thought you might be interested in this little
exchange between me and Lee when he tried to
"infiltrate" my distribution list.

Paul LaRudee

*************
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 03:04:26 -0800 (PST)
rabeednajaf (at) yahoo.com> wants to join iftah


Dear Lee Kaplan,

You've got to do better than this. You can't get my information right when I give it to you directly over the phone. You mangle English and Arabic in a way no Arab would. The crude, hastily constructed website you created is not about to fool anyone. You can't even get your spelling and grammar right in your articles, let alone your facts. Are you the best your supporters can come up with? If so, things are collapsing faster for you than I thought.

Yes, I know you were at the Palestine Solidarity
Conference. Everyone saw you there in your ridiculous darkface and crude beard. Your colleagues were less crude, but nearly as obvious.

However, since you want reports from Palestine,
permit me to brief you on some marvelous and
empowering demonstrations in some of the villages
here. One of the villages has managed to get the
authorities to shift the path of the wall so as to
restore most of the lands that the wall would have
taken. How? By nonviolent protests on a continuing basis in front of the equipment that was bulldozing their land and by braving assaults of tear gas, stun grenades and coated steel bullets. Another had its very first demonstration against against the settler thugs and thieves who try to take what is not theirs. Mass murders don't play well in even the most controlled press, so what can they do?

Last week, three military vehicles tried to enter
Balata refugee camp in Nablus, but we stood in their path and prevented them at every place they tried to enter. They tried to push us out of the way, but we wouldn't budge, so that day, at least, they were unsuccessful.

Obviously, we are no match for the fourth most powerful military force on the planet. However, these small victories are important in demonstrating to Palestinians that they are not alone, in reporting the realities that a coerced press refuses to see, and in turning the tide of lies that shelters the world's most racist society. Day before yesterday, soldiers bagged their quota of unarmed children so they wouldn't go home empty handed after looking for "terrorists".

Wish you were here, and would be happy to help you
build a society where Palestinian Jews and non-Jews can live equally without regard to race, ethnicity or religion.

Paul Larudee

P.S. Was expecting more difficulty getting into the country and through checkpoints. What happened?
 

Arabs did it

" Becky Johnson seems to think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre is not worth discussing because 1982 is supposedly ancient history."

There's nothing unusual about Arabs killing Arabs...that's what Sabra shatilla was all about...except it's convenient to blame the jews, because they were in the neighborhood...
But seriously folks, if you want to discuss some real massacres, how about Black September?? That's when Jordan MASSACRED 20,000 paletinians in less than a month!! But hey, not to be bested by his Arab brother, Assad of Syria massacred 25,000 Sunnis in under two weeks!! How was this accomplished? Fire bombs rained down on Hama...after the aerial carnage, ground troops were sent in to kill the survivors...man those guys are good...nobobdy Kill Arabs like Arabs do!
 

Sabra And Shatila Was The Work Of Israel

No matter how much you Zionist(s) want to repeat yourselves, Sabra and Shatila was the work of Israel (including Israeli troops) and the work of their allies they trained and armed in the Christian Phalange Militias.

I once again refer people back to my referenced work:

“The Sabra and Shatila Massacre? santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/13623
 

On Jordan

A Zionist wrote, "But seriously folks, if you want to discuss some real massacres, how about Black September?? That's when Jordan MASSACRED 20,000 paletinians [sic] in less than a month!!"

I am also an opponent to U.S. support to the Jordanian monarchy, although they are not being propped up by the $3 billion dollars a year from the United States that Israel gets. Despite how much Zionists love to point at Arabs killing each other, the Jordanian borders and repressive monarchy are only a product of imperialism. As such, and with a majority Palestinian population, I see the revolutionary overthrow of the Jordanian monarchy as an important component of a future united, democratic, secular, and socialist Palestine consisting of federated Arab and Hebrew speaking republics where equal rights are guaranteed.

As I stated in "How Israel Promotes Anti-Semitism, A Response To Becky Johnson (Part 2)"

"Socialists stand for an end to U.S. military aid to Israel and all of the crowned princes, sheiks, emirs, and Islamic fanatics of the Middle East. We understand that these U.S. policies are the policies of both the Democrat and Republican Parties. Imperialist policy isn't the result of some misunderstanding by these parties of the wealthy. Instead the repressive and genocidal policies of U.S. imperialism flow from the drive for profits by the rapacious U.S. capitalists that rule America and much of the world. From this understanding socialists know that the only way we will get a just foreign policy, fair
treatment of workers and the poor, and sound ecological policies is through a socialist revolution in the United States."
 

On Jordan (Continued)

The U.S presently sends about $100 million dollars a year in military aid to the Jordanian Kingdom. This is much, much less than Israel, but this money for repression and exploitation also must end!

Source:

Embassy of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
www.jordanembassyus.org/new/aboutjordan/uj1.shtml
 

An Unbiased Observation

Steven Argue's writings seem to always cite "sources" from the Arab press and organizations. Since the Arab world has a controled press and media, are dictatorships,etc., their credibility is suspect.
The continuation of claiming thousands killed in Jenin comes to mind when it is even acknwoedged by the PA itself today it was 58. Yet Steven Argue and his crowd still carry on about the thousands killed in Jenin. The UN also said thousands which makes it highly suspect and remember the UN is 70% dictatroships. If MOhammar Ghaddafi and Lybia can head the Huma RIghts Commission of the UN than it is corrupt.

I;m sorry, Mr. Argue. I tried being impartial but I find your articles and issues suspect. The Jews in ISrael have legitimate fears of Muslim rule and you live in Santa Cruz. DId you watch the video link above to women being stoned to death for sharia law violations? How can you be so heartless to Jews in the Middle East as to condemn them to such behavior? I'm sorry, but I ahve to agree you use Zionist merely as a word to deflect your hatred for the Jewish people and desire to see ISrael destroyed. That's not making peace or social justice.
 

I've Had Enough Steven Argue Bullshit

Anyone who wants to buy into Steven Argue's garbage should view the videos available here:

www.memri.org/video/index.html

Argue is a warmonger and anti-Semite, pure and simple and isn't fooling anyone. Scott Kennedy is gone? Good! Let's work on Steven Argue and the rest of the Santa Cruz Jewhaters and pro-dictators. God Bless America and Israel. We all know the majority of us in Santa Cruz are not represented by these repulsive people.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Somebody asked me to come in here due to a comment by Paul LaRudee above.

First off, Paul, I do not fabricate things as a journalist and am actually recognized as one not just in the US but internationally.

Second, at the PSM Conference I did go in undercover, not as an Arab (the author of the contrived "expose" is obviously a racist because Pakistanis are not Arabs). We also have some of your Norcal ISMers on tape telling about how they are paranoid of Lee Kaplan because I got
73 ISM volunteers deported from Israel for aiding the terrorists over there. People can read about that at these links:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp and don't miss:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp

Now, Paul, we both know how much you lie, including saying that homosexuals are gladly welcomed in the Palestinian community (they are persecuted and murdered in actuality). Your ISM buddies were deported because they were shown to be working to aid terrorists.

I'll be sure to discuss you in coming episodes of Club Cruz as well. About the secretive meetings I went into undercover held by your group. I've actually been at more than you realize also.

In any event, don't flatter yourself, Paul. I'll be telling the Bay Area community all about you and your group of terrorist-supporting misfits in the future some more.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I just saw Paul LaRudee's alleged email he sent me. I never saw it before today, but it doesn't give me much concern. Let me reply to Paul:

The fact you got in past the border police into Israel is meaningless as that is what you are a trainer here for the other terrorist-enablers to do. However, let's see what happens when you want to leave.

Paul, admit it, you and your Arab wife (who might also account for your getting into Israel if she has Israeli citizenship), want Israel destroyed, you don't want a better world for Jews, Arabs, etc. At the PSM Conference at Duke
University there was a resolution to condemn suicide bombings that failed. The crowd cheered when that failed. How did you vote on that resolution, Paul? I realize lying comes naturally to you as I showed in my articles, but really, did you vote to condemn them without qualifications? Paul, how does someone like you convince himself he is a good human being when he supports a pig-murderer like Yasser Arafat?
By the way, I dressed in disguise because you would not allow the press inside, the goal being to aid terrorist groups through recruiting to interfere with the IDF and propaganda and not reveal your planning on US campuses. This Conference concentrated more on how toinfiltrate Jewish orgnaizations in the US, even on how to get inner city shcoolkids to hate Jews. If I wasn't disguised, I'd never have gotten in. So
I guess you understand why I did so. People here can read about it:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp here
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp

No doubt we will discuss it all on Club Cruz.

Anyway, I have more columns to write...don't have a lot of time for indymedia nonsense....
 

Caught in a lie

I listened to the Alsion Weir death threat recording and heard no mention of DAFKA. WHoever implied that group was involved with the deaththreats certainly owes someone an apology and me on for wasting my time. I now know who to believe in here.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I am Jewish and lived in Occupied Palestine for 15 years, 1981 - 1997, and saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears the genocidal destruction of Palestinian life throughout all of Palestine (this includes the area of 1948 Occupied Palestine, better known as Israel). I was also in West Bank and Gaza Strip in 2002. I saw demolished homes and destruction of private businesses and food crops in Ramallah, Beit Sahour, Beit Jalla, Bethlehem, and Gaza Strip. It was extremely clear that the Israeli soldiers had done their utmost to cause as much destruction to personal possessions of Palestinians as they could. In downtown Ramallah all I saw was destruction.

In Gaza I saw agricultural fields totally destroyed, not only the crops were ruined, food for the people, but also irrigation pipes cut up by the bulldozers. What is the purpose of destroying food? Can a crop of eggplant cause harm to anyone? Can plastic irrigation pipes in Gaza Strip cause any harm to anyone living in Tel-Aviv?

I have seen the aftermath of Israeli soldiers shooting at apartment buildings throughout the Gaza Strp. The outside of the houses look like swiss cheese there are so many holes in them. Many of the apartment houses, where children, women and men civilians live, have been so badly shot up that they barely stand and are too dangerous to live in, this is besides the thousands of homes that have been demolished by specially built bulldozers made by Caterpillar for the Israeli Army, for decades.

I have heard Zionist Israelis express their outright hatred of Palestinians, and all Arabs. I have seen them on Israeli television shouting out in the streets "Death to the Arabs". Inciting people to actually go out and commit murder.

Israelis are taught to fear and hate all Arabs from the time they are born. I know this because I lived in the Tel-Aviv area and I saw and heard their racism. When I would tell Jewish Israelis that I was going to a Palestinian village in Israel, they would always ask me "Aren't you afraid?" I would ask them, afraid of what? I was always made to feel very welcome in the homes of Palestinians wherever I went, whether inside the 1948 borders, better known as Israel, or in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It was always known by the Palestinians I visited that I am Jewish and had Israeli citizenship.

I have been to Gaza Strip and to Jenin many times and a few times to Nablus, my life was NEVER in danger, I was never afraid, at least not of the Palestinians. My life was in danger a few times by Israeli soldiers. There were times when I feared I was going to be shot by a trigger-happy Israeli soldier.

My experience of Palestinians I have met is that they are a peaceful people. They love their children, they love their families, they are extremely generous and will offer you their last food to welcome you into their homes. Despite living under a very horrendous and genocidal Israeli occupation for more than 50 years, they are not a hateful nor bitter people. They make very clear distinctions between Jews and Zionists and Israeli soldiers and civilians.

During my stay in Occupied Palestine (all of Israel is Occupied Palestine) it became very clear to me that the Israeli Occupation Forces, the Israeli settlers and the Israeli government commit War Crimes, crimes against Peace and crimes against Humanity on a daily basis.

I totally support Palestinian Statehood and the Right to Return to every Palestinian.

I had my own experience with Lee Kaplan and Becky Johnson, both are extremely uninformed as to the truth about Palestine and Palestinians.
 

Still More Lee Kaplan Capers

From Paul Larudee:


Lee Kaplan is an e-journalist specializing in hate
reportage against Palestinians and their defenders. He
"infiltrated" a training session offered by the ISM
Support Group in Northern California and wrote about
his experience at the following sites:

www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp

israelvisit.co.il/cgi-bin/friendly.pl!volunteers

The following open letter is a response to these
articles:

July 6, 2004

Dear Lee,

As you may imagine, your "undercover" report of the
activities of our group caused some consternation
here. On balance, however, it may not be such a bad
thing, and I would definitely encourage you and your
readers to learn more about us.

First, as they say in show business, there is no such
thing as bad publicity. We are constantly trying to
get more into print about our activities, and I doubt
that any of your e-mags would have published anything
we might write. In that respect, your report at least
helped to build awareness about our organization, even
if much of it was inaccurate.

I also wish to thank you for including links and/or
the URL to the main ISM website,
_www.palsolidarity.org, so that your readers can judge
for themselves. Our local one is actually
_www.norcalism.org.

Even the negative slant that you placed on our
activities was not such a bad thing, either. Most of
it was in the nature of your commentary on our words,
rather than our words themselves. For example, if you
were hoping to find anything anti-Semitic or plans for
attacks against Israel, you must have been sorely
disappointed. You even managed to include a number of
positive things to say, such as that 60% of our
volunteers are Jewish. I did not realize that the
proportion was that high, and I wonder if that may not
be an exaggeration.

There are a few other inaccuracies, as well. For
example, I am not 68 years old. You confused that with
the average age of other volunteers that I mentioned
in a different context. I am also not a retired
University of California professor, although I taught
there briefly in the 1970s. It is also not true that
"Two suicide bombers gained entry for their murderous
agendas under the auspices of the ISM." That is
impossible on the face of it, since membership in ISM
is hardly the best way to persuade Israeli authorities
to let you into Israel.

In fact, the individuals to whom you refer made
contact with us in much the same way you did - by
subterfuge and by not revealing their true purpose.

We are a very open group, and would be even moreso if
Israel did not persecute nonviolent resisters. As it
is, I think you should have penetrated our activities
even more, gone to the West Bank with us, picked
olives with the farmers, shared their hospitality and
seen the consequences of ethnic cleansing with your
own eyes. (The World Bank reports that nearly half a
million olive and other fruit trees were destroyed in
only 15 months of the current intifada. More than
100,000 Palestinians have been made homeless by home
demolitions under Israeli occupation. I refer you to
the excellent reports by B'tselem, the Israeli human
rights organization at www.btselem.org/)

If you are among the minority of racists who revel in
the death and misery of your target population, I
suppose that such an experience might have no effect
upon you. However, I do not think this is true for
most people, and that it is only by sharing and
understanding the lives of others that we can learn to
live together in mutual respect.

Paul Larudee
 

Can't see Palestinian violence

So Supporter says that "My experience of Palestinians I have met is that they are a peaceful people." How do you account for the 73% support for the campaign of suicide bomber attacks on civilians in polls of Palestinians*? You condemn Israeli violence, but are blind to Palestinian youth throwing rocks at IDF soldiers and Israelian civilians on a daily basis with the approval of their parents, government, and religous leaders. A child killed while throwing rocks is lauded as a martyr. So in 15 years you saw none of this?

You saw none of the weekly exhortations to kill Jews broadcast on Palestinian Television by Imams in the mosques?

You know nothing of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Islamic Jihad, the PLO, the PFLP, Hamas, or any of a dozen other terrorist organizations whose stated purpose is genocide of the Jews?

Over 100 suicide bombers have come from the West Bank into Israel with the mission of killing civilians. You saw NONE of that?

I think you need to visit an opthomologist because your "vision" is pretty darn poor.

Your report tells us that night is day and black is white. That the Palestinians are a peaceful people and the Israelis are violent and intent on genocide when it is Israel which has reached out to the Palestinian people 13 times since 1937 in an attempt to give them their own state. Israel wants peace. The Palestinians want Israel.

* www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/IsrPalConflict/NVINT2/NVINT2.pdf
 

Mention Genocide As Many Times As Possible

THERE is no greater waste of TIME than arguing with master race ideologues like the Zionists.

Just by letting Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan post here, the editors are letting the Zionists invade OUR space, where we should be discussing what to do in terms of organizing, NOT pointlessly telling them the obvious about human equality.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Regarding Paul LaRudee's comments about me. I am not just an internet journalist. I am published worldwide. Paul, the only inaccuracy you ever could produce in my article was that I reported your age as 68 when you say you are 58. You look 68, so it was a small error.

As for your diatribe about my supporting death, Paul, I am a true peace activist, not a fake who works with terrorists to prevent the Israeli Army from protecting people from terrorists like you. Your organization I proved in my articles is linked to Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups. Your trainer in the West Bank is a PFLP veteran. You talk peace and mean peace will only come when all of Israel is Palestine under Arab-Muslim rule.

I know you are embarassed by my exposure of your ISM creeps. The fact is, they were all arrested and deported as a result of my article. The fact is even after one of your trainers tried to enter the country under subterfuge, and she had a free communist lawyer to defend her, the Israeli Supreme Court kicked her out.Criminals get deported, especially ones who work to aid terrorists.

This email from Paul LaRudee was intercepted by the StoptheISM team:

Subject: Re: [ism-coord] Stop the ISM - Front Page Magazine

I know there's a serious side to this, but I couldn't help laugh at phrases like "piles of rocks and dirt that the IDF uses as roadblocks to stop suicide bombers". To keep this in perspective, Lee Kaplan, David Bedein and Cinnamon Stillwell seem to be part of a small group that takes ISM more seriously than the Israeli government does. He even talks about persuading the Israeli authorities to get serious about us.

The down side is that they seem to be well financed and the Israeli authorities seem inclined to humor them, i.e. facilitate their work. Nevertheless, what is the result of this attempt to persecute us? Here is my assessment:

1. Perhaps they are able to offer some auxilliary intelligence to Israeli authorities about the identity of ISM volunteers and their travel plans, as when Lee Kaplan infiltrated our training session in San Francisco. There is no doubt that we have to be more careful about controlling this information, but too much control inhibits our ability to recruit. We
(NorCalISM) have lots of ideas, but would prefer not to discuss them on line. (Should we resort to snail
mail?)

2. Kaplan et. al. have been publishing bad press to the extent of lies, distortions, simple errors and even proofreading problems. It is nearly all on on-line publications, which may have minuscule readership. I have responded to pieces by Kaplan and Stillwell, but I'm not sure it's worth our time to go overboard with this. I don't see Kaplan with many of the local mainstream Zionists and I suspect they regard him as something of a wacko. There are, however, enough wackos to be something of a problem.
We could consider a libel suit, but I know that it's a big undertaking.

3. Is Kaplan et. al. violating our civil rights or breaking other laws? To the extent that they are spying on behalf of governmental organizations, Israeli or American, we may have a case, and the local ACLU is interested in pursuing such cases. I am copying this to them for their interest, but I suspect that we may need more evidence in order to take action.

By the way, we have pictures of Kaplan that we took at a local demonstration, if anyone is interested.
Still, I doubt if he will try the spy thing again (although someone else might).

The activities of this group are making things more difficult for us, but right now I'm more concerned about reduced recruitment numbers. For some reason this seems to be cutting into our strength more than anything else.

Paul Larudee
NorCal ISM

Yes, Paul, we are cutting into your strength. Israel as a democracy lets some of you assholes sneak in, but we have your number. You meet and openly work with Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Huwaida Arraf admitted that at Duke University at your national conference (we have it on tape!).

You meet like little weasels in dingy places in the Mission Distric in San Francisco and claim you are peace activists. But in reality you promote unending war even for the Palestinian Arabs because you insist peace can only come when Israel is dismantled. Giving Palestinian Arabs new homes, jobs, a better life, NOTHING WILL WORK FOR YOU BUT DISMANTLING ISRAEL. You worshipped Arafat, oone of the bloodiest killers in history and even overlooked his stealing aid money from his own people. You interfere with Israeli soldiers at checkpoints designed to keep out suicide bombers who you also make excuses for. You are the height of doublespeak. Talk about being peace activists, then you promote war
by working with Hamas and other terror groups that do not want peace with Israelis but to overhwelm and conquer them. That is the truth about your phony crusade.

And what's more, you all openly hate America: The email below was also intercepted from your group:

Subject: Re: [ism-coord] a suggestion: ISM-NA should
> be ISM-USA ...
>
>
>
> LOL, I can't imagine it would be any worse than
> carrying the label of "American" in general at the
> moment.
>
> Yesterday a Palestinian said to one of the
> Bostonians there to pick olives that his religion
> keeps him from killing her, after asking her if she
> was an American.
>
>
>
> Lysander Puccio <lysanderp (at) yahoo.com> wrote:
> you are right, jaggi, i'm just not sure any of us
> here
> could bear that tag. but let us see what we can do.
>
> lysander
>
>
> --- swallace (at) igc.org wrote:
>
> > Thank you Jaggi!
> >
> > I agree that it is important what we do here in
> > Palestine-but it is only part of our wrok-our
> on-going
> > and crucial work-which should include CD-is back
> "home"
> > in the States (which is only one part of las
> americas)
> > Thank you for your words....
> > Sharon Wallace
> > Now in Palestine
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jaggi Singh
> > Sent: Oct 15, 2004 8:55 AM
> > To: ism-coordination (at) lists.riseup.net
> > Subject: [ism-coord] a suggestion: ISM-NA should
> be
> > ISM-USA ...
> >
> >
> > Hi there -- Just a friendly suggestion for your
> > discussions at D uke ...
> >
> > I don't think you should be referring to ISM North
> > America (ISM-NA) but
> > rather to ISM United States (ISM-USA) (or ISM-U$A,
> if you
> > prefer).
> >
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any
> Canadian
> > or Quebec-based
> > ISM groups are part of the discussions around
> > re-structuring. Moreover,
> > the existence of a distinct ISM-USA makes a lot of
> sense,
> > since the
> > strategy and tactics in the belly of the beast
> will be
> > different than
> > those employed by those of us who live beside you
> (in the
> > "appendix of
> > the beast," if you like).
> >
> > I do think that there should be good communication
> > between all ISM
> > groups in North America. And this list is one way
> we can
> > do so.
> > Moreover, there are opportunities for
> collaboration
> > continentally
> > (speaking tours, urgent actions, joint
> fundraising, etc).
> > But in terms
> > of structure, there is not an ISM-NA, but rather a
> > ISM-USA and ISM
> > Canada (we even have a website at
> > www.ismcanada.org).
> >
> > You all in the United States have a particular
> obligation
> > to take on
> > your own government, because without USA support
> --
> > political, economic,
> > military, cultural -- Israel could not maintain
> > occupation. Direct
> > action in the USA IS direct action against Israel.
> The
> > scope for action
> > and civil disobedience in the United States, in
> > solidarity with
> > Palestine, is tremendous. In my mind, it's a
> direct hit
> > against
> > occupation, as much as funding people to go to
> Palestine
> > itself to do
> > civil disobedience. Moreover, the Christian
> Evangelical
> > movement in the
> > USA is such a key target, and a powerful lobby of
> support
> > for not just
> > occupation, but all out ethnic cleansing of Arabs
> from
> > all of historical
> > Palestine. The Christian Evangelical leaders and
> > organizations should be
> > confronted as well, as the bigots and racists that
> they
> > are.
> >
> > Certainly, in Canada, we have our obligations too,
> and
> > there are many
> > disturbing tendencies as well. But, while our
> goverment
> > is complicit
> > with Israel in occupation, there is still a more
> open
> > political culture
> > here around Mideast issues (relatively speaking).
> >
> > During the recent UN vote on the apartheid wall,
> the USA
> > voted with
> > Israel as per usual, while Canada abstained. These
> votes
> > reflect the
> > various challenges we face in our respective
> settler
> > states, and I
> > suggest the structure of ISM in North America
> should
> > reflect this, while
> > we strive to communicate and collaborate
> effectively.
> >
> > Have a good meeting at Duke.>
> > In struggle and solidarity,
> > Jaggi (ISM-Montreal)
> >
> >
>
>
Now, should anyone who lives in America, and especially Americans who want peace, believe anything you or your team say, Paul? You are in Israel right now? Great! We're going to alert the
Israeli authorities. I hope they catch you.

Paul, you're a bullshit artist. You hate America, you hate Israel because Israel like America represents freedom and democracy for all people, not jsut Jews. You have no compunction about lying to people. You do not promote peace but unending war. If exposing this about you alerts even one parent whose child might be fooled by your bullshit, then I've done a service.

Your organization is subversive and destructive,
it wants to enable a terrorist movement, the PLO to destroy a country called Israel, the home of 6 million people to set up a PLO dictatorship in its place. No lie is too great to achieve this.

The above expose also states that DAFKA made death threats to Alison Weir. The recording on her website clearly shows this nevver happened.
Again, these people are liars. The Author of the expose, "Will Walllace" is a fake name. He was invited to debate me on Club Cruz. Below is his reply:

From: Will Wallace
To: Becky Johnson
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Can you be a guest on Club Cruz?


Becky,

If you are okay with this guy harrassing peace activists (particularly women) and creating lies about people in our community, then your show is not for me.

Now, we know he already lied about the "death threats." He also lies about harassing women.
He also is afraid to debate me because he can't win because I can cut right through his bullshit and lies.

Let's face it. If Indymedia is legitimately into
"peace" and not a front for communist and totalitarian regimes who don't really give a hoot about people (especially to make America a better place) then this post will not be hidden.
On the otehr hand, if it is edited, then the site is completely worthless.

The facts are simple and plain. Paul LaRudee, the author of the expose titled here, Alison Weir, etc. all ahte America as the big Satan and
Israel, America's ally as the little Satan. When they say "peace"they mean no more Israel. They enver condemn suicide bombers without qualifications. They get funding and training from the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee. They work for Arab conquest of Israel--Period.

And Paul, if you want to "sue me," go right ahead. I ahve a team of lawyers ready to do discovery on all of you and to show where your funding ultimately comes from.

Anyone who comes in here who really wants peace: don't get involved with the ISM, Palsolidarity or any of these creeps. Peace will only come when teh terrorism ends from the PLO, the Palestinian refugees understand they cannot overwhelm the Jews via the right of return but by a compensatory settlement, and the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP terrorist groups who the ISM gladly works with, no longer has their aid to interfere with anti-terrorist operations. Then, and only then, will there be a real peace.

Think about it. If they hate America so much they don't even want it in the ISM name, what does that say about such people.

Tune into Club Cruz...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Mr. Kaplan, I never read your articles before and was even considering joining a Jewish Voice For Peace. Now I see what you are talking about.
Neither I or my children will associate with these people ever again. We want peace, and they clearly are making war.

Might I suggest you start an email list to keep in touch with readers. I for one would subscribe.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

My first time here. I live in Israel. Why do some people on here hate Isrel so? You know, we are democratic. I go to colege with Arab-Israelis. My brother serves with a Bedouin unit.
It's not true we persecute the Arabs. Genocide is ridiculous. We are trying to make peace over here yet all I hear is Zionist this and Zionist that...We are people too.

Please, Israel will never just give up and be destroyed. Neither will the Arabs. Stop the hate and the lies and yelling Zionist all the time. Encourage peace for that is all we Israelis really want.
 

i've just fallen off a turnip truck

oh please. "A Santa Cruz parent" is not really a santa cruz parent. And "Joshua" is not from israel. Maybe Lee Kaplan is upset that this article has been read by a whole lot of people! This article has already been distributed on several email lists that i know of. And now, if you type Lee Kaplan into the google search engine, this article is the number three hit. sorry lee, you've been exposed. actually, i'm not sorry. i'm glad.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

It looks like the word is out on Dafka as well. I was just curious, so i typed dafka into google, and guess what, this article was the third one to come up. that should be very helpful to people that are researching Lee Kaplan and Dafka. And all these comments from the Zionists just go to show a small bit of what Will Wallace is talking about. Thanks again Will Wallace, you have done a great service to the santa cruz community and people around the world. As for dafka, now this article is 'in your face.'
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Lee Kaplan has informed me he's actually delighted with this thread. He tells me the www.dafka.org has received a 40% increase in traffic and he has been invited to more speaking engagements. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. He also says he isn't anyone but himself.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"anyway, I have more columns to write...don't have a lot of time for indymedia nonsense...."

This comes as a big suprize since Lee has spent over a week trolling this comments section!

Thank you to Steve Argue who has kept the signal-to-noise ratio at a constant so the original message could still be heard.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I jsut wanted to say I am real and still beleive what I said. People in here are so nasty.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

In regards to this article, I would still like to know more about Lee Kaplan's background and location since the author couldn't find anything about it. If Lee has nothing to hide, can he provide this to me, along with an explanation of his job and his employer(s)? My friend says that since Lee Kaplan says he has nothing to hide, he will post his address, his education and research, and who he works for. (Or if he is unemployed, that is okay, too!)
Thank you very much!! :-) -Buffy
 

Hey, "nice try there buddy"

You seem fulla shit. What unimpeachable evidence can you produce to prove Joshua isn't from Israel?

Making unproven claims is cheap.
 

Oh, "nice try", you appear deluded just as your hero Argue

"Will Wallace" may have done the world a service, but unwittingly so, by giving Davka more exposure. What did this person accomplish? He lied about Israel receiving $6 billion every year in US foreign aid whereas the real sum is about half that figure, and he published a demonstrable slander against Davka linking it to the death threat on Alison Weir.

But hey, you folks never appeared to care about truth, except to carry it's name in vain.
 

THIS IS GREAT!!!!

This exposure has been phenomenal! THe DAFKA website hasn't had as many hits all year as in this last week due to this thread! We just got a
major donor too!!!!

Mr. Kaplan informs us he hasn't time to come in here himself, but we asked him about Buffy's questions. He said to say as soon as she gives out all her personal information, including, address, who she works for on here, phone numbers, etc, he will comply for her and do the same. (A good answer to give a bimbo).

He also said whoever keeps making fun of Steven Argue to stop, that Argue makes enough of a fool of himself with his lies and made up historical
documents.

Becky Johnson informs us Barbara Lubin called her
and Becky invited her to debate Mr. Kaplan but she got scared like William Wallace and refused.
Seems its another lie in the article above that
DAFKA members were at a Hayward demonstration (although we wish we were). In any event, Mr, Kaplan asked me to convey on here that Ms. Lubin
collects fungible money for Mona Al- Farra in the West Bank. Al-Farra it seems refused to sign a US state department document guaranteeing that USAID funds would not be used for terrorism. It seems, according to Ms. Al Farra, she refused because most of her "patients" are terrorists.
Mr. Kaplan said he's open to debating Barbara Lubin any time to show what a lair and terrorist enabler she is. He also asked her when her Middle
East Children's Alliance is going to buy some toys for Israeli children injured by suicide bombers.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The real Lee Kaplan asks:
>Does anyone really take the rantings
>of people like Steve seriously?

Becky Johnson does.

Though she disagrees with him on the issue of Israel/Palestine, she states that, "Steve Argue.... is a prolific writer on a number of foreign issues which he continuously researches..." and she thinks so highly of him that when he ran for City Council she voted for him!

But Becky, really... doesn't it seem odd to you that you agree with Steve (and Noam Chomsky, Desmond Tutu, etc) on so so so many other issues, yet when it comes to this issue, you find yourself siding with dishonest, juvenile name-callers? Doesn't it seem odd?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Becky Johnson in the past has been subject to the same mindless peer pressure as many of the so-called radicals in Santa Cruz.She is a homeless advocate, an admirable person who cares about her fellow human beings.

At the same time, she is not an automaton for the radical left. She has enough common sense to see bullshit artists who profess to being peace activists but are in fact supporting terrorists and despots. She knows these people from the inside out and can distinguish from when they are sincere or trying to promote a cause through untruths.

One doesn't have to support the War in Iraq to support Israel--these are two different issues.
The poster above who protested people of differeing views being allowed to post in here illustrates the hypocrisy of the hate Israel and Zionists movement.

As for Noam Chomsky and Desmond Tutu, she may be reevaluating her position after some of the posts in here.

Keep up the good work, Becky! The truth wins out even on Indymedia!!!
 

Go Get 'em, Steve

The only reason all these psychopathic bigots have converged here to spew their venom at you is because you've expressed ideas they don't want ANYONE ANYWHERE to EVER see.

I for one, think you're right on. Until the whole world wakes up to what heartless murderously vicious bigots these people are, there will never be peace.

Another good one:
takingaim.info/hhz/index.htm
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The StoptheISM team has been infiltrating the International Solidarity Movement, including Norcal ISM for the last year. We have a compiled list of the names of ISM "volunteers" even from the UK that are now in the hands of Israeli intelligence. We have been working closely with Interpol on this project.

For those who thought this expose was going to slow things down with DAFKA, guess again. Anyone who's "volunteering" for pain-in-the-ass
duty in Judea and Samaria or Gaza, be prepared to sit in a detention cell. The Israeli government has your identities and will be looking for you.

We wish to thank all those who gave their time up to this point to infiltrate the ISM, SUSTAIN,
SJP and other organizations to compile our list.
Look for its opening on the new Stop the ISM website coming in January.

Down with Arab fascism and long live all the people of Israel. We also thank the brave people
who go underecover to reveal these communist hate America support terrorists whack jobs to
an unknwoing public.
 

Anti-Bigot is the biggest bigot of all

The book plugged above is jsut another propaganda fluff peice against Israel. Fact:
Israel is the mmost pluralistic and democratic society in the Middle East and one of the foremost in the world. Fact: Any refugees who suffered since 1948 did so at the hands of their Arab brothers who made sure they remained refugees. Fact; The PLO is not a humanitarian organziation, but a den of thieves that prays on its own people and attacks Israel to distract from its own theft. Everyone should order this book if they want to know the truth about the PLO: DISCLOSED Inside the PLO by Arelene Kushner www.donationreport.com/init/controller/ProcessEntryCmd It's only 14.95 and tells the truth about the PLO.

These morons who call people who oppose terrorists and murderers "bigots" are the height of doublespeak. They are bigots against Jews who
just say "Zionist" as a euphemism.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I was struck by this quote:
As I stated earlier, I >advocate the fight for a >democratic secular and socialist Palestine with a >separation of church and state to cover the >current occupied territories, Israel proper, and >Jordan.

Steven Argue said the above. Mr. Argue, are you aware that the Palestine Constitution does not seperrate church and state but in fact makes Islam the offical state religion? That that is the same in all the Arab countries and in Pakistan and Iran? Seriously, sir, I've been to Israel and it is a secular society, more of jsut a haven for Jews than anything. Why do you spread such lies and disinformation. The Muslim
world is definitely theocratic.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I wonder if Lee Kaplan is an American. If he is, he would realize that it is NOT a crime to express dissent and, especially, to express disagreement with the foreign policy of ANOTHER COUNTRY. U.S. Citizens have EVERY RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to speak up when there is a wrong going on in the name of their own country and by foreign powers abroad. After all, this is one of the lessons we learned from the horror known as the Holocaust. People DIDN'T speak up when they should have.... People trusted governments to "do the right thing." Ultimately, people must follow their own G-d given conscience.... or we face the possibility of another such horror happening again.
For one to continue to support the extremely agressive tactics of Israel against Palestine (for example, see what is going on in Khan Younis right now), one is not only acting in bad faith against the Palestinians, but the Israelis as well. What do Israelis think the Palestinians are going to do? Roll over and die?!? The ones who are left have shown that they plan on fighting to the death. This only means more pain and suffering for Israelis! It doesn't *have to* be like this! Even though there has been a lot of bad feelings between the two groups, compromise can still happen if people DEMAND it.
Please, get information from ALL sides and critically examine it. Carefully consider the *source* of the information. (Kaplan still won't give his credentials though he presents himself to be an expert on the topic. That is a big red light to me!) Be sure to look into books, which have more stringent requirements for publication than do newspapers, magazines and internet sources.
Peace IS possible. Shalom!
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

It's the way they're utterly incapable of experiencing truth that makes them so pointless to argue with. The thing you must remember, Steven, is to never let them bait you with their stupid hair-splitting trivia. Stay strategic, ignore their jibes, and relentlessly aim for their soft underbelly: their whole position is fundamentally predicated on a system of ridiculous, enormous lies. It's impossible to penetrate their mental defenses because they believe these lies themselves with a fervor that makes religion look shallow. Fanatacism ain't just for ragheads. You can, however, get through to everyone else by ripping these lies apart in plain view. Two good examples:

indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/21606/index.php (see comments, especially the last)

www.chronicle.duke.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/10/26/417e3e4b845cb (see last comment by "John Brown")

To do this, you must become expert at analyzing their lies, i.e. overturning the multiple historical and conceptual fallacies they constantly rely on, which have become common "knowledge."

Be warned however: these people are vindictive like you would not believe. Mordecai Vanunu can tell you. And their resources inside this country exceed those of most nation's intelligence agencies. For some time, a zionist gatekeeper attached himself to an Indymedia site I won't name and kept working his Orwellian crap into every single comment thread, so I went after him in the above manner. I never gave out my name or e-mail address, but this warped freak had me HUNTED DOWN via the local Sayan network (his father's nearly in the same league with the PNAC crowd) so he could confront me, for which he had to travel hundreds of miles. I could not f-ing believe it when he showed up. He even had an extremely vicious looking Sayan bodyguard with him (tall, martial arts physique, clearly hoping he'd get to smash "anti-Semite" bones) who hung around menacingly as this guy expressed his opinion of me.

Of course, it never occured to him that going to such ridiculous lengths validated every condemnation I'd ever directed at him. That's what you and the Palestineans are up against: even when these supremacists lose themselves to neurotic fear and hatred so totally as to become capable of literally anything, their delusions keep them convinced they're still altruistic heroes. I suppose extreme bigots are always like that.

"Critical Thinker" is another of these internet gatekeeper idiots. The 'net is riddled with them. Lee Kaplan looks like a less cyber-dependent version. It's really pathetic what some people believe constitutes "activism."
 

"Tell The Truth", get a grip

You say
"U.S. Citizens have EVERY RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to speak up when there is a wrong going on in the name of their own country and by foreign powers abroad."

Wrong. The fact you're a US citizen doesn't give you a sweeping entitlement to meddle in another state's internal affairs anymore than being a Soviet citizen legitimized a person's interference in all of other countries' internal affairs.


You proceed saying,
"For one to continue to support the extremely agressive tactics of Israel against Palestine (for example, see what is going on in Khan Younis right now), one is not only acting in bad faith against the Palestinians, but the Israelis as well.

Get a grip on reality. Israeli military activity has the lowest rates of collateral damage in the history of modern warfare and the IDF uses the most benign methods under the circumstances. The US armed forces don't even come close to all the care expended by the IDF in avoiding non-combatant casualties.
If it weren't for the incessant barrages of mortars and Qassam rockets being launched by Palestinian terrorists at Israeli residential areas, causing much damage to property, injuries and even some fatalities, the IDF wouldn't have conducted the incursion into Khan Younis and other locations. These IDF raids are done for self defense purposes.
Tell me, were you ever aware of all these mortar and rocket attacks on Israelis before you thought complaining about the Israeli raids into Palestinian residential areas?

You ask,
"What do Israelis think the Palestinians are going to do? Roll over and die?!? The ones who are left have shown that they plan on fighting to the death. This only means more pain and suffering for Israelis! It doesn't *have to* be like this!"

Get a clue...can you tell me with a straight face, having read what I wrote just above, that the Israelis should sustain all the mortar and rocket attacks from and in the Gaza strip and just do nothing? Are they not entitled to try to protect their citizens?
Sir, I urge you not to settle for what you hear and see from the media you usually consume. Please try to study both sides of the issue from reliable sources before you cry out against a supposed Israeli injustice inflicted on Palestinians. Please stop being so naive; that's much too easy -- any fool is capable of it.


You claim,
"Even though there has been a lot of bad feelings between the two groups, compromise can still happen if people DEMAND it."

That's true mainly for the Israeli side, for now. When it comes to the Palestinians though, reaching a serious and lasting compromise is still dependent on their leadership abandoning violence and incitement, and cracking down on their terrorist organizations which they are still uninterested in.


You sign off urging,
"Please, get information from ALL sides and critically examine it. Carefully consider the *source* of the information. (Kaplan still won't give his credentials though he presents himself to be an expert on the topic. That is a big red light to me!) Be sure to look into books, which have more stringent requirements for publication than do newspapers, magazines and internet sources."

You're really something, Santa Cruz local.
I for one can only hope you can adhere to the advice you're dispensing to others.
 

"anti-bigot" -- quite a misnomer if there ever was one

"anti-bigot", along with Steven Argue, "Will Wallace" and the rest of that band of dipshits frothing at the mouth are not only such proven liars, they're also guilty of the same bigotry they charge all the pro-Israel crowd with.
We've witnessed "Will Wallace" and Argue referring to the Arab guests on Club Cruz as "fake" or "Arabs" because they dispel the lies being parroted by the rabid Israel haters; if this isn't racism, this planet is flat rather than round. The buffoon Argue has thus proven himself a racist, only to have "anti-bigot" come along and root for him like some brainless football spectator. "Go Get 'em, Steve" (...)

Most contributors upset at the article and Argue's musings have rebutted the anti-Israel lies using common sense, logic and reliable sources. All this "anti-bigot" can offer is little more than mindless unsubstantiated platitudes, discredited arguments and some pep talk. Pathetic.

Mordecai Vanunu got what he deserved for leaking some of Israel's top secrets -- a court of law convicted him for the crimes he had committed and sentenced him accordingly. That's what happens or should happen to spies and traitors in any state. Vengeance had nothing to do with it.


The bigot admirer "anti=bigot" continues erupting,
"That's what you and the Palestineans are up against: even when these supremacists lose themselves to neurotic fear and hatred so totally as to become capable of literally anything, their delusions keep them convinced they're still altruistic heroes. I suppose extreme bigots are always like that."

So to this pot calling the kettle black all Zionists and Israel supporters are supremacists constantly gripped by delusions of altruistic heroism, one hell of a ludicrous and groundless generalization. What a pitiful joke. Take about being deluded.

The dipshit "anti-bigot" is apparently dismayed at the validity of the refutations I've produced in this thread which he can't argue against with any credibility, hence his jibe at me.

Pathetic doesn't begin to describe the defense "anti-bigot" makes for Argue, his own stance and the lies spewed by his fellow dipshits. Pot, meet kettle.
 

Will Wallace and Barbara Lubin turn down spot on Club Cruz

For those of you who think that the best way to sort out ideas is to have a forum where pro and con positions are given, and let the viewers judge the merits of those arguments for themselves, I have some disappointing news. Both Will Wallace (author of the above article) and Barbara Lubin of the Mideast Childrens Alliance have declined a taping spot on an upcoming episode of Club Cruz in which they were given the opportunity to debate one on one with Lee Kaplan.

While many here have gone to great lengths to discredit Mr. Kaplan for faulty journalism, I haven't seen any factual errors exposed other than the age of one of the moderators at Duke University.

Barbara Lubin can't stand the heat so she's staying the hell out of the kitchen.

Ask Barbara Lubin how much of her funding goes to care for Israeli children who are missing limbs and recovering from burns from Palestinian terror attacks. Aren't Israeli children eligible for her aid?

Note the above attack on the IDF for events in Khan Younis without even a slight indication that persons in the camp are firing rockets over the border into Israel. That's how these people manipulate your emotions. They tell in detail what the IDF is doing to Palestinians and are completely mum about the circumstances preceding the IDF action.

Look above at Steve Argues LONG diatribe against Israel about Sabra and Chatila where he makes no mention at all about the slaughter that precipitated the massacre.
 

I'd Gladly Debate

My dear genocidal fanatics of Dafka,

So far you have asked Barbara Lubin and Will Wallace to debate you, why haven't you asked me? I'd gladly trash your racist and murderous Zionist ideology on the air just as I have done here.

The only ground rule I'd ask is that we bring in a calmer moderator for the show, such as Mark Halfmoon, who will give both sides clocked equal time.
 

Lee Kaplan The Sexist

Lee Kaplan wrote, "Mr. Kaplan informs us he hasn't time to come in here himself, but we asked him about Buffy's questions. He said to say as soon as she gives out all her personal information, including, address, who she works for on here, phone numbers, etc, he will comply for her and do the same. (A good answer to give a bimbo)."

Someone made a list earlier of people attacked by Kaplan:

Here is a quick review of all the groups/people Lee and his fellow agents have attacked (either directly or by using unethical scare tactics to frighten sensitive populations):

1. Teachers, k-12
2. Teachers, college
3. Gardeners(!!)
4. Older Jewish Americans who have either been through the Holocaust or had family members who went through it.
5. Liberal American Jews, who are the MAJORITY of American Jews
6. Arab Americans
7. Muslim Americans
8. Peace Groups -- many, many, many all over the U.S.
9. Quakers
10. Mennonites
11. Church of the Brethren
12. Church of Presbyterians
13. Tikkun
14. Gush Shalom
15. Mideast Children's Alliance
16. Democrats
17. Women's International League of Peace and Freedom
18. Peace and Freedom Party
19. John Kerry
20. A.N.S.W.E.R.
21. Michael Moore
22. International Solidarity Movement
23. Student groups (esp. Muslim Student Associations)
22. Uri Averny
23. Al Franken
24. Teresa Heinz Kerry
25. Noam Chomsky
26. Edward Said
26.5 Alec Baldwin
Locally.....
27. George of FRSC
28. All of FRSC
29. Resource Center for Nonviolence
30. Santa Cruz City Council
31. Scott Kennedy, former mayor
32. Joe Williams, Peace & Freedom Party candidate for 17th dist.
33. Emily Reily
34. Steve Argue

Gee.... I'm beginning to feel like an insult from Agent Lee is a badge of HONOR.

Feel free to add to the list. (Who is next? BARBARA STREISAND??)

Yep.

35. Barbara Streisand
36. Harry Belafonte
37.Whoopi Goldberg.....

And then with Kaplan's tirades I added:

Kaplan writes, "So Steven Argue is a botanist. Does that mean he grows pot in Santa Cruz?" Add to list:

38. Botanists
39. Santa Cruz

Now, with Kaplan using a sexist term like bimbo against a woman inquiring into his work we must add:

40. Women

Hey Agent Kaplan, I thought you said you were a journalist, why now so touchy about your job?

Lee Kaplan, both racist and sexist, both for the war in Iraq and against working class people at home.

It is indeed a funny kind of journalist who can't spell and by his own admission spends his time infiltrating organizations and giving information to Interpol and the Israeli government.
 

To the quasi-critical dullard

All this screaming and frothing and heroic defending of the zionist bigot project in the Middle East, when meanwhile THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN is becoming a global fascist menace such as the world has not seen in six decades. Given your history, one might expect you to be primarily concerned about the home front, but instead your attitude is clearly "meh, wuddevah." Only Israel matters, only Jews matter, and Jews are not on the recieving end of the fascist nightmare this time; on the contrary, they're one of the key groups LEADING it, so what's not to like? Whole populations of Jews everywhere are aligning with the extreme right in a way that has no historical precedent. And it's all because of Israel, the only spot on the whole planet a certain reactionary ethnomaniac mentality gives a fuck about -- a mentality that's taken hold of American Jews in particular. Most of the murderous zealots in the settlements come from Brooklyn, not Tel Aviv, and even a lot of Israelis think they're totally nuts. These people are not reacting to a reality of oppression; if there was ever an authentic Zion, it's New York. Instead, they're CREATING such a reality for another group (Palestinians and Islam), and doing so from a deeply bigoted ideology that has emerged from WITHIN New York's insular and exceptionally powerful Jewish culture.

Does it not occur to you that you're all being played for a bunch of fucking chumps? What's happening to you psychologically and politically is right out of one of Leo Strauss' books. Strauss admired Machiavelli and advocated using tensions of ethnicity, religion, nationality, etc., as a means of keeping people hysterically agitated so they can't analyze or work against the REAL power game, which ALWAYS arises from class. Guess who all your zio-maniac leaders (Bill Kristol, the Kagan Family, etc.) worship as a God among men? I think they've sold all of you down the river so they could get their hands on some real power. Jews used to be a wildcard in world politics.

Of one thing I'm very certain: your present blatantly supremacist posture, toward Arabs in particular, but also toward non-Jews generally, is going to haunt you for generations to come. It breathes significant life back into the most poisonous characterizations of Jews (The Protocols, etc.). If you want people to believe that stuff isn't true, perhaps you should behave in a way that refutes rather than supports it.
 

Hey bigot, I'm laughing so hard, it hurts...

It's like each anti-Zionist stooge for Palestinian terrorists I respond to tries to best the preceding one for sheer idiocy.

For starters, you obviously barged into this thread and haven't bothered to read it since. Had you done that, you would have seen my statement in one of the posts where I said I wasn't posting from the US. Yet you mindlessly holler with the cockiness characteristic of the retard you are a statement consisting of the imbedded confidence that I'm living in the US, which is not the case. But then, the exact same moronic idiocy that drove you to this stupid confidence also made you cheer for your fellow bigot Steven Argue who had made the racist comment labelling the Arab guests hosted on Club Cruz as "Arabs". If you were truly an anti-bigot, you would scold Argue for his racist outburst. But you won't.
Your alias is a sick joke where both anti-Arab and Anti-Jewish bigotries are concerned. But I'm sure you're not going to part with it.


You emit,
"Only Israel matters, only Jews matter, and Jews are not on the recieving end of the fascist nightmare this time; on the contrary, they're one of the key groups LEADING it, so what's not to like? Whole populations of Jews everywhere are aligning with the extreme right in a way that has no historical precedent. And it's all because of Israel, the only spot on the whole planet a certain reactionary ethnomaniac mentality gives a fuck about -- a mentality that's taken hold of American Jews in particular."
"if there was ever an authentic Zion, it's New York."
"New York's insular...Jewish culture".
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah"

This insane and mad babble of tripe seems to validate my assumption you're besting all the other anti-Zionist misfits that have posted here so far.


You go on claiming,
"Most of the murderous zealots in the settlements come from Brooklyn, not Tel Aviv,"

This contention begs two questions:
(a) do you believe all Jewish residents in Judea-Samaria and Gaza are murderous zealots, or is your claim allowing for the fact that at least some of them aren't such people?
(b) If your answer for (a) is the latter, which source did you rely on to establish what you did? Share it. Because you don't actually know where most Jews living in the disputed territories came from to begin with.


You proceed to argue,
"These people are not reacting to a reality of oppression. Instead, they're CREATING such a reality for another group (Palestinians and Islam)"

Provided that you're alluding only to the most fanatic Jewish residents -- the Kahanists -- there's a small kernel of truth in these claims, but you completely negate your arguments' merits by accusing them of imposing a certain reality on Islam, no less... Boy are you wacked.

Anyway, I couldn't care at all for your dimestore psychoanalytic kakamainy psycho-babble bullshit. Unlike a demonstrably brainwashed racist dummy like you and your ilk, I'm not part of a group that has been led into predetermined thought patterns via mass indoctrination. Save your futile manipulations to folks of your IQ and lower.

You don't know tiddly about my stance concerning Arabs and other gentiles, you King of Fools.
On second reading however, you're accusing all Jews of a "supremacist posture" toward non-Jews. I don't know much about you to reach a totally informed verdict about your political affiliation as in far Left or far Right, though the passage before your last seems to indicate a communist one. Nonetheless, I've read enough of your ramblings to discover you're not merely anti-Zionist but actually an antisemite. You amply demonstrate your antisemitism and seem rather proud of it, so I really don't see why you'd try denying it. Truth of the matter is, you're yet another rank antisemite who has learned to spell properly and get his syntax and grammar right, hurling ostensibly fairly benign canards. Your *attempt* at patronization gets you nowhere. You may have left some kind of impression on Neturei Karta and their secular counterparts, but you'll never fool me and most others.

I've read your arrogant eruptions on the other IMC and found you're pretty much of a historical lightweight. Arguing that the Philistines and Cana'anites were ancient Arabs, huh? Or another set of historical trash stemming from the Khazar canard? You're peddling trite and tired merchandise which tends to stimulate my yawning reflex. Save money, go (back) to college, broaden your horizons and then find a decent job that will allow you access to better health care.

If I sign off "ta ta", will you switch to silence?
 

Becky Johnson Says The Murder Of Innocents Is Justified

Becky Johnson says, "Look above at Steve Argues LONG diatribe against Israel about Sabra and Chatila where he makes no mention at all about the slaughter that precipitated the massacre."

In another posting she claims that the over 3,000 innocents slaughtered by the Israeli military and Christian Phalangist Militias were not innocents. She claims, “They were not "innocent Palestinians" since a day or two before a group of them went into a Lebanese camp and murdered 65 men, women, and children.?

The Sabra and Shatila Massacre was carried out directly by both of the two allied forces of the Israeli occupation (the Christian Phalangist Militia and the Israeli military). Becky Johnson obviously disagrees, but it is my opinion that the mass murder of innocents is never justified, not even by the killing of other innocents. Nor did other events directly prior to Sabra and Shatila justify the slaughter, including the murder of the butcher Christian Phalangist leader, Bashir Gemayel.

Yet, not only was there no justification, no event other than the Israeli invasion of Lebanon brought on the Sabra and Shatila massacre.

As I pointed out in “The Israeli Slaughter at Sabra and Shatila? www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1711914.php, the mass murder of innocents at Sabra and Shatila was part of the pre-planned and stated intent of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon to carry out ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon. While patriotic Lebanese and Palestinians fought against the murderous Israeli invasion of Lebanon (and eventually drove it out with the help of the Israeli peace movement), the Christian Phalangist Militias at that time became the strongest Lebanese force in the country due to their collaboration with the Israeli aggression and occupation. Leaders of both allied forces, Bashir Gemayel, the nazi inspired leader of the Christian Phalangist Militias, and Ariel Sharon made clear that it was their intent to drive the Palestinians out of Lebanon.

As the Israeli paper Ha’aretz reported on September 26, 1982: “A long-term objective aimed at the expulsion of the whole Palestinian population of Lebanon beginning with Beirut. The purpose was to create a panic to convince [sic] all the Palestinians of Lebanon that they were no longer safe in that country.?

As Time Magazine admitted on October 4th, 1982, “On several occasions Gemayel told Israeli officials he would raze the camps and flatten them into tennis courts. This fits in with Israeli thinking. The Christian militia forces that were known to have gone into the camps were trained by the Israelis.?

As for Becky Johnson’s statement, “For those of you who think that the best way to sort out ideas is to have a forum where pro and con positions are given, and let the viewers judge the merits of those arguments for themselves, I have some disappointing news. Both Will Wallace (author of the above article) and Barbara Lubin of the Mideast Childrens Alliance have declined a taping spot on an upcoming episode of Club Cruz in which they were given the opportunity to debate one on one with Lee Kaplan.?

On this I still have yet to hear from Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan taking up my offer to debate. As I stated earlier:

“I’d gladly debate

“My dear genocidal fanatics of Dafka,

?So far you have asked Barbara Lubin and Will Wallace to debate you, why haven't you asked me? I'd gladly trash your racist and murderous Zionist ideology on the air just as I have done here.

?The only ground rule I'd ask is that we bring in a calmer moderator for the show, such as Mark Halfmoon, who will give both sides clocked equal time.?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue and I can certainly debate. However, given his habit of lying, or stating false sources (3,000 killed at Sabra and Chatilla, the Israelis were in Chsirtian uniforms etc), we don't do clocked equally equally both times, but discuss the matter on air. As for your moderator, I'll ask Becky to check him out.

The reason why we don't want both sides clocked equal time is as he has shown, Steve rants on citing statistics, sources and information that is questionable and making numerous accusations.This is the debating style of his crowd, people who during their turn can go on and on accusing the other side of so many things they cannot possbly address them all and have to spend all their time defending themselves from false charges rather than presenting their point of view. If you cite a lie, I want the right to call you on it immediately, Steve. I'll be busy too.

As for statements like "My dear genocidal fanatics at DAFKA," this is an example of hyperbole which you will not do unchecked. If you are talking genocide, the PLO whom you defend certainly believes in that for Jews. We've already shown here there is no genocide and you are not a peace advocate.

As for a calmer moderator, Becky is certainly calm and more than fair. A debate which includes
hyperbolic and uninterrupted rhetoric like "your racist and murderous Zionists ideology" isn't going to happen. You'll have to cite how your position promotes peace, and or will solve the Middle East question. As mentioned, your style is to lay accusations, use hyperbole and cite so many outrageous and phony abuses that after you cite 25 made up ones, I may only be able to respond to half. That isn't going to happen. We're going to discuss how you are a peace advocate and how I supposedly am not and I'm going to prove you are actually a bullshit artist and a warmonger. By the way, check the posts of SF Indymedia where you accuse me of writng about and attacking over 40 people and issues, most of which I've never written about or heard of. If you tried that technique on air, I might not be able to address all 40 which is your style. It won't work with me, Steve.

If you have the guts to debate me one on one, I'm all for it...
 

I'll Debate, What are you afraid of Lee Kaplan?

Lee Kaplan wants to be able to interrupt me if the facts I present do not fit into his propagandistic lies!

It sounds like Lee Kaplan is afraid of debating.

As I said, I'll debate if the format is a civilized one with timed statements and no interruptions. This is the only way to have an equal and fair discussion. What are you afraid of Lee Kaplan?
 

Dig this, Critically Fucked in the Head

For it to be possible for me to give less of a shit about your opinion, I would actually have to reach orgasm upon reading one of your hysterical broadsides. I find your condemnation, insults, etc. absolutely insignificant. You embody perfectly a thing I already described:

"...their whole position is fundamentally predicated on a system of ridiculous, enormous lies. It's impossible to penetrate their mental defenses because they believe these lies themselves with a fervor that makes religion look shallow. Fanatacism ain't just for ragheads."

And the reason I know this about you with certainty is by way of contrast with Jews decent and honest enough to denounce zionism's brutal stupidity. For example, here's a calm and very fair critique of zionism by Jewish history scholar Barry Trachtenberg:

www.radio4all.net/index.php=&
(two audio .mp3 files; extremely worthwhile)

You really should listen to this, fucknuts. It's how sane people think; hopefully it will rub off. I look forward to seeing how long it takes you to call in the hackers and get this site killed.

Just for shits and giggles, why don't you enlighten me as to how Canaanites were NOT ancent Arabs? And why it's not true/doesn't matter that Ashkenazi Jews are of central Asian ancestry. Even the maniac who tracked me down via the zionist Mafia didn't dispute this, and he was very bright and knowledgeable. Though fully as rabid as you, he wasn't as willing to twist every historical subject into pro-zionist propaganda.
 

Anti-Bigot was responding to Lee Kaplan, not Steven Argue

Anti-Bigot is responding to Lee Kaplan, not Steven Argue. Since Anti-Bigot is right after Steven Argue it took me a few lines in to see that.
 

Clarification²

actually, I was responding to "Critical Thinker's" last post
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven, as usual you state the untrue then declare yourself the winner. I already said I would debate you. THe debating style of throwing outlandish claims and false statistics in huge quantities, then giving the other side a chance to respond to only a few (such as your style above of writing phony history and lies about Sabra And Chatilla and taking up pages and pages of text, won't fly.

Steven, I already said I'd gladly debate you. You jsut are going to have to address each point as it comes up. If that means you want us to take one minute turns, that's ok by me. But I start the debate.

As for anti-bigot, if it's your contention that the Arabs of today are the ancient Canaanites you need a lesson in anthropology. The Arabs originated in Saudi Arabia. The PA used to say the Palestinian Arabs were the Philistines until it was amply proven they had no relationship to them because they were a Minoan culture. Thus came the new saw that the Israelis are not from the region and the Arabs are the Canaanites to predate the Jews (also untrue). Your information is ignorant as well. THere's been a Jewish presence in the Holy Land for 5,000 years at least. 55% of Israelis are Jews of the same racial mix as Arabs. You also refer to I assume Koestler's theory of Kahzaria being a source of some European Jewry for the rest. However, the three disaporas of the Jews, the largest one by the Romans spread them throughout Europe which is why some Jews are Ashkenazic.

Now as for you "Canaanite" descendents, the PA COonstitution specifies that ANY Arab who worked or resided in Palestine for two years before 1948
is a Palestinian with the right of return to displace the Jewish popoulation. As the Zionists imported entire villages of Arab laborers prior to 1948 from Algeria, Syria and Iraq, where's that put your Canaanite theory? It's just such bullshit that Said thrived with on the campuses,
claiming the Palestinians were the Jebusites also. These ancient cultures were not Arabs.

Anti-bigot really is a bigot against Jews. He covers himself by calling names and claiming those who disprove his ignorant theories are bigots. Remember too, Israeli Arabs, who are Muslims, make up 20% of Israel's population, do have the same civil rights as other Israelis,e ven affirmative action programs in Israel';s universities while the Arabs claim literally "not one inch" belongs to the Jews. This of course includes Jews who can trace their lineage in the Holy Land back thousands of years.

Both of these clowns like to spout lies, or made up information in droves, then declare themselves winners in any debate.

Like I said, I'll debate anyone. Steven, you want to choose the moderator? I get to chose the format. The fact is, you are acared you will lose. ANd since Becky is a friend of yours, why are you fearful of haivng her moderate?

Bring it on, turkeys...
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Who are Argue and "anti-bigot", two asswipes who
live in the resort beach town of Santa Cruz, in the free and democratic Untied States, to tell Jews in Israel, most of us born there, that we must give up our country to Muslim Arab domination? Mr. Argue, will you give up your home and country to someone who comes along and says it's really theirs? Didn't Mexico used to own Santa Cruz? Aren't you a colonialist then? Aren't you responsible for genocide of the California Indians then? Aren't the descendents of those Indians entitles to blow your children up on a bus to regain their lands?

Mr, anti-Bigot is worse: he calls people nasty names; that's a bigot in my book.

God save America from such mean spirited people who give solace to the terrorists and murderers of the world.
 

O.K. Let's Debat Then

Lee Kaplan says, "THe debating style of throwing outlandish claims and false statistics in huge quantities, then giving the other side a chance to respond..." Actually it sounds to me like you are describing yourself.

O.K., You can choose the moderator, but the format must be one without interruptions and with longer speaking times than one minute. There is only time for meaningless sound bites to be thrown back and forth in one minute. Five minutes for opening statements, four minutes for rebuttals, and five minutes for closing statements is a much more reasonable format.
 

I wasn't talking to you, fuckhole

As for your selective presentation of "facts," this is hardly definitive. My information on the Canaanites comes from archaeologists working in Acre, who have no political agenda that I know of, unlike yourself. As for the "debunking" of the "Khazar Canard," I think your source for this dogma is the following piece by Robert Singerman:

www.jewishculture.org/jewish_scholarship/feinstein/singerman.html

Singerman doesn't prove shit. He just creates a space for doubt and then exploits it with his own ideologically motivated suppositions -- a Zionist specialty, I would say. Meanwhile, the case for linking the Khazars with the Ashkenazim remains compelling, but of course Singerman pretends just the opposite. And of course you buy into this because his agenda coincides exactly with your own. History is more contaminated with this sort of thing than any other academic subject.
 

"anti-bigot" my ass

You keep adhering to the antisemitic conviction that Ashkenazi Jews are all derived from Khazarians, don't deny your antisemitism, flaunt it, and yet have the gall to use the label "anti-bigot". I, along with many others, have come to expect that sort of audacity by unrepentant racists. You're the epitome of doublespeak, and so far one of the least smart and sophisticated in that respect which I have happened on in Indymedia.

You haven't answered my questions. Evidently real debate is something you fear as you know you're on the losing side. Yet you expect me to answer your crap, even if for the heck of it.

Having read how you scoff at and dismiss all the valid evidence presented to you when you demand it from interlocutors,-- behavior typical of the sheer idiot you are -- I'm not going to go to the trouble of laying out the evidence refuting your historical BS about the Khazar canard and the origins of the Cana'anites and Philistines. I'm content with the fact it doesn't take people who study these topics beyond superficial levels too much time to see through these crocks of shit that antisemites stick to at any cost. Also, I don't give two hoots about that supposed maniac who tracked you down and showed up at your door. Dragging him into the mix is supposed to make me marvel or impressed? Likewise, I care nothing for your Zionist bogeyman. Funny that, how you madly cling to that euphemism, as if you really needed it.

Your cadre of pre-picked, ideologically certified Jewish historians, be they real or with dubious credentials -- might cause some impressionable and underinformed folks to go "wow". It sure doesn't work with me.

Furthermore, you don't bother to deny any of my charges demonstrating how you're bigoted and racist. Therefore you're gulty as charged. And you're willing to tolerate anti-Arab racism whenever it as much as seems in line with your "cause". The bottom line on this matter is, your anti-racist bluff has been called. Your stance about racism don't even befit a caricature of anti-racism.

As for the alleged hacking occurring here on a daily basis which I have noticed too and am incidentally a bit annoyed with, you'd never believe in a million years it's not my doing. I can only assume the people who run the site disconnect it from the server, presumably either because they can't monitor and edit the contents 24/7 (for whatever reason/s), or this site is plagued by frequent technical malfunctions. Whether you believe me or not, I don't give a flying f**k. You're too much of an idiot to reason with on the more significant topics, so why should I care what you think on this one.

Go on, unapologetic racist, keep posting; just keep making my case about you, rotten souled arch-bigot.
 

Beyond Nationalism

The origins of the Canaanites, Philistines, and Ashkenazi Jews are of academic interest, but points that are, in my opinion, politically irrelevant to the current situation.

A Zionist asks, "Who are Argue and "anti-bigot", two asswipes who live in the resort beach town of Santa Cruz, in the free and democratic Untied States, to tell Jews in Israel, most of us born there, that we must give up our country to Muslim Arab domination?"

Personally I think that the $3 billion the U.S. government gives Israel every year to murder, rob, and humiliate Palestinians every year gives me every right and duty to talk about what is being done with my tax dollars. That money would be much better spent keeping social programs that are being cut in the United States.

That same Zionist goes on to rhetorically ask, "Aren't you responsible for genocide of the California Indians then?"

No, I am not responsible for genocide against Native Americans, nor are Jews in general responsible for genocide against the Palestinians. This is what I have been saying all along. These genocidal crimes are the acts of the racist capitalist governments of Israel and the United States. If I had my way perhaps some of that three billion going towards killing Palestinians could be used to meet this country's obligations towards the human needs of the Native Americans.

The forced removal of natives and settlement by foreigners in both countries is a reality and there is no purely nationalist solution for either of these oppressed native populations. The settlers of both countries, except for many of the most recent settlements on Palestinian land where the victims are still around to make a direct claim, are a reality on the ground that cannot be answered simply with evictions. Real solutions come from all nationalities realizing how much more we have in common with each other than we have in common with our oppressors and exploiters in the capitalist governments that rule over us and send us off to war.

My criticisms of Arafat have always been from the left. When Arafat negotiated for the current "two state solution" I pointed out that it would not work because Palestinians would only have control of the poorer areas of Palestine where there was/is no real basis for an independent economy. Instead of being a truly independent nation the Palestinians continued to be forced to work for racist Zionists for employment while the Palestinian Authority took on the role of capitalist government administrators of the new Israeli Bantustans.

I oppose all capitalist governments, including the PA and the Kingdom of Jordan. This, however, doesn’t mean that I’m neutral when it comes to Israel’s murderous invasions of Jenin and Gaza etc.

The current state of the situation has shown that Yasir Arafat's strategy of negotiations with the Israeli government has achieved nothing, that the Israeli government can not even keep their word on earlier agreements, and that there will not be peace for either the Palestinian or the Hebrew speaking population until the Israeli state is abolished and in its place a democratic secular Palestine is built with a separation of church and state where the civil rights of all nationalities are guaranteed. Only a socialist movement that represents the rights of the entire working class and speaks uncompromisingly against the discrimination and violence meted out to the Palestinians by the Israeli State will be capable of making such a revolutionary transformation. Likewise such a movement cannot see the Hebrew speaking population as the enemy and must instead target the repressive apparatus of the Zionist state.

Some hope can be seen in the fact that neither the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) nor the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) target civilians. In addition a revolt has taken
place within the Israeli army where many Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate in Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people, despite going to prison for their heroic actions.

Every 3 billion per year sent by the U.S. government to the Israeli war machine just prolongs Israel’s war on the Palestinian people. It is time for the U.S. government to end its role in this crime.

Socialists are also opponents to U.S. military support to the Jordanian monarchy, although they are not being propped up by the $3 billion dollars a year from the United States that Israel gets, they still get $100 million a year in military aid from the United States.

Despite how much Zionists love to point at Arabs killing each other, the Jordanian borders and repressive monarchy, like Zionism, are only a product of imperialism as well. As such, and with a majority Palestinian population, socialists see the revolutionary overthrow of the Jordanian monarchy as an important component of a future united, democratic, secular, and socialist Palestine consisting of federated Arab and Hebrew speaking republics where equal rights are guaranteed.
 

Observations about the arch-bigot's points

Notice how he alludes to unnamed "archaeologists working in Acre who have no political agenda that I know of" and doesn't cite any source, and yet expects us to take his word at face value. How convient for him not to devulge his source/s. His bull probably traces back to revisionist archaeologists and/or historians whose claims have been convincingly disredited.

He also makes nothing more than an assumption when he mentions the source debunking the Khazar canard. In truth, there are multiple credible sources, such as Khazaria.com which make a mockery out of the arch-bigot's confidence in the khazarian origin of all Ashkenazi Jews.
 

As for Argue's drivel

He claims the $3 billion the U.S. foreign aid given to Israel entitles him as a taxpayer to spout his mendacious moonbat rants on Israel at every turn. But this phony knight in pursuit of justice doesn't have a problem with the fact the US spends annually about the same sum on aid to different Arab entities (including the PA) combined, who violate human rights on a much larger and more egregious scale. He keeps completely mum on that.


Note to the other sane contributor besides Lee Kaplan: the racist "anti-bigot" is apparently posting from NYC as one can conclude from his ranting on the other IMC URL that he cited above when he barged into the fray.
 

Beyond Nationalism (Continued)

A Zionist said, "But this phony knight in pursuit of justice doesn't have a problem with the fact the US spends annually about the same sum on aid to different Arab entities (including the PA) combined, who violate human rights on a much larger and more egregious scale. He keeps completely mum on that."

What bullshit. Nobody but the puppet government the U.S. set up in Iraq gets more military aid from the U.S. than Israel. That aside, as I stated earlier in this string, “Socialists stand for an end to U.S. military aid to Israel and all of the crowned princes, sheiks, emirs, and Islamic fanatics of the Middle East.?

I've been very clear in various writings about my opposition to U.S. support for the repressive governments of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, and the puppet government the U.S. has set up in Iraq. Likewise I have written against the treatment of Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria.

In addition I oppose U.S. aid to the Kingdom of Nepal and have written on that. But presently we have been talking about Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians, so bringing up my position on every other country in the world was not necessarily relevant. You are like a Jewish mugger that I’ve caught killing a Muslim complaining that I must be against his religion because I didn’t go after the Muslim mugger down the street. You then add that what you are doing is justified by the crime of a completely different Muslim. Pure racist bullshit!

As for the PA, I am critical of them from the left, and if the U.S. were giving them real support I'd talk about them some more too. But the reality is that the U.S. takes the side of Israel in its murderous attacks on the PA controlled Bantustans.
 

Hey shit-stinker

I'll start citing my sources when I see you and fuckhole doing the same. The double standard does betray a certain attitude, however, i.e. "we're the Jews (sniff) we know everything. YOU, on the other hand, ha, well... (snigger, snigger)..."

This particular citation criticism is in fact a quintessential display of zionist hypocrisy. I've seen clowns like you two dish it out endless times, while never citing a source on anything. You just make shit up and toss it out and then count on your infallible Holocaust martyrdom to deflect all skepticism. That don't work on me, sorry. I have this knack, see, for shrugging off pop-culture brainwashing programs, like for example the endless deluge of "no one has suffered like the Jews" propaganda. Jews HAVE suffered greatly, I won't deny it, but in the world of here and now, you dish out ten times as much suffering as you absorb, and this has to count for more. No, history does NOT excuse it. Of course, all the above will be lost on Jews with your 'perpetual victim' psychology, who only have sympathy for each other.

Which brings up your other big display of hypocrisy, i.e. making light of my screen name here. You two assholes really should have stayed away from that one. You see, Israel is now the most obscene racist outrage in the world, displaced South Africa as such many years ago, and almost everyone outside the U.S. and World Jewry knows this. To answer certain characteristic "points" recently made, NO, Israel does NOT extend equal rights to Jews and non-Jews, even disregarding Palestine, where the occupation's abuses of non-Jews strain credulity. Only Jewish immigrants have automatic citizenship rights in Israel; everyone else is effectively barred. But then who the hell else would want it? Which is the only reason it isn't more contested. There's also land ownership rights, which are weighted wildly in favor of Jews. Racial discrimination in these two areas alone is so huge, impinges so broadly on every other area of life and legality, that all by themselves they justify the charge "Apartheid State." Of course, the institutional bigotry surrounding property rights within Israel pales in comparison to what the settlers perpetrate against Palestinians: they usurp more and more land each year through outright terrorism and theft with armored bulldozers and paramilitary gangs, and the Palestinians are powerless to stop them. Every means of redress is rigged against them. You're goddamn right I sympathize with these "terrorists": if you did that shit to land that had been in MY family since antiquity, land that was the only possible means of supporting MY family with any measure of dignity, I'd be out to murder a bunch of you motherfuckers, too. Back an entire people into an impossible corner, and sure the COWARDS will pack up and leave, but the ones who have souls will immolate themselves by lashing out; it's the only self-respecting option you've left them. But hey, I'm not revealing anything about human nature you haven't all been gloating about ever since Jabotinsky lit his first fuse, am I?

Interesting that you bring up California Indians; hardly the way to maintain your monopoly on victimhood, since this race has suffered way more than you have, and more importantly continues to suffer at present. Most zionists have the sense to stay the hell away from that one. And of course the same charge can be leveled at Jewish New Yorkers. I don't see them giving up their properties so the Delawares can come back, either.
 

Do the math properly rather than tendentiously

Trying to get such a tendentious person like the above one to realize the source of his error is probably a futile attempt doomed to failure in advance as it's most likely he was making his was making a factually wrong statement on purpose rather than in error, but at least it'd be a service to some less informed readers.

The new Iraqi regime is propped up by the US. The rogue Arab regimes I was alluding to, *including the PA*, are a different matter. Egypt receives about $2 billion in US foreign aid annually and others much less, but when you combine all those sums you get about $3 billion dollars or more -- about the same some Israel receives annually.

Genuinely informed observers should realize by now it's pointless to try convincing Argue that the party committing most of the crimes and far worse ones is the Palestinian rather than the Israeli, so this fact pulls the rug from under his first excuse to focus inordinate attention on the foreign aid sums to Israel. As to the other, I don't believe one party to a conflict should be subjected to so much attention just because it receives far more money in aid than its enemy. Additionally, besides the foreign aid, the US also heavily finances UNRWA. So I think we can put Argue's second excuse to rest too.

The "Jewish mugger" analogy doesn't stick, both because the "Muslim" nearly always is the aggressor starting the violence by murdering the "Jew" in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict rather than the reverse (which Argue obviously will go to every length to deny) and because I haven't been trying to excuse real excesses by Israeli soldiers/forces, such as the murder of the 13 yr. old girl in Gaza, by arguing they had the right to do so because Muslims commit atrocities too. So much for this inapt analogy.
 

Arch-bigot asswipe, you lost and are furious accordingly

He erupts,
"I'll start citing my sources when I see you and fuckhole doing the same. Blah (enter racist poison) blah..."

This is the way such a loser excuses his failure:
One the one hand, he makes unsupported claims and when pressed for proof or shown to have failed to present it, he refuses unless his interlocotur presents some (if they're even honest), even if the latter wasn't the one making claims in the first place. That's what happened in my exchange with him on this thread.
On the other, if he demands proof or evidence and is then shown it, he dismisses it outright. That's what occurred on the other IMC thread he clipped way above.

His lying racist vitriol, apart from the functions it fulfills which have been mentioned so far, is also meant to deflect readers' attention from his inability to prove his claims. It also appears the arch-bigot suffers from some martyr complex and narcissism, but I digress.

As you see, the antisemitic arch-bigot is infuriated by the justified criticism and derision heaped on his alias, causing him to lash out at Israel, as if any kernel of truth that might be pinpointed in his racist bile could excuse his mammoth racism. Evidently, he has no use for the truth regarding the truly most racist states in existence nowadays or even since the end of WWII.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The Zionist writes, “The "Jewish mugger" analogy doesn't stick, both because the "Muslim" nearly always is the aggressor…? This is pure racist rubbish, typical of those holding the Zionist aggressor ideology.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"Whenever someone challenges something Kaplan or Horowitz says, their stock reply is “Anti-Semitism!? This couldn’t be more ridiculous since they save their most vicious attacks for other Jews involved in the peace process and for Arabs, who are also by definition a Semitic people." -Will Wallace

"It's amusing seeing "Will Wallace"... cite Wikipedia's entry for "Semitic" in an attempt to distort the accepted meaning of "antisemitic" to also include "anti-Arab." -Lee Kaplan

If Lee Kaplan claims that "anti-Semitic" attacks only occur against Jews, what, then, does he call the hate-based phenomena that occurred after 9-11, when both Arabs and Jews alike were singled out all over the United States for discrimination and attacks?

Here is great read on Anti-Semitism from Josepsh Massad from Columbia University:

"Semites and Anti-Semites: That is the Question"

weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/720/op63.htm
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Jsut got back from New Year's...

Lessee...Argue is ranting about the "capilaist governments of ISrael and America." Honestly, Steven, you are such a bullshit artist. Your hate for Israel is linked as I said to your communist Stalinist belief system affixing the title of little Satan to Israel and Big Satan to the US. YOu trulyt are scum. Go live in Cuba or North Korea or even the PA for a year, I dare you.

Steven also speaks in code and rhetoric as did the Stalinists: "Zionists" means Jews as classical antisemitism was always a byproduct of the Soviet system.

The word "antisemitism" was coined in Germany in the 19th century and was specifically meant to refer to Jews. Arabs too are semites, but the word refers to hatred against Jews...

Regarding a debate: OK Becky moderates. Ill discuss details with her. But Argue, if you're caught in a lie you have to agree to apologize to the women and children in ISrael murdered by terrorism, ok? No qualifications.

I'll deal with the rest of this garbage tomorrow...
 

Argue took my words out of context - not surprising

Anyone who scrolls back a bit will see how the poor Argue distorted my claim into the contortion that suits him. Since he's dismayed that the facts bear out my contention and don't allow him to mount a counterargument bearing merit, he resorts to the misplaced charge of racism.

Making unjustified charges of racism is one of the oft used refuges of those whose claims aren't borne out by the reality on the ground. As it transpires, Argue's "Jewish mugger" analogy is the latest piece of baloney on this thread. The PC bullshit of making far fetched racist accusations is being increasingly rejected worldwide by those who aren't Liberals or extreme leftists.

When Argue caught me making an erroneous statement above about his position toward Arab recipients of US foreign aid, I didn't respond with an unrealistic claim divorced even further from reality in an attempt to defend my error. Argue, however, has done just that.

Regardless, it's not lost on me that Argue at least has stopped trying to identify me with Becky Johnson.
 

Omigod, this is just too rich.

"Making unjustified charges of racism is one of the oft used refuges of those whose claims aren't borne out by the reality on the ground."

You should try using this principle to analyze your OWN bullshit, namely your defensive tactic of choice: screaming "anti-Semite!" at anyone who challenges your incredibly warped, poisonously judeocentric comprehension of "history" and "justice." The zionists have been screaming "anti-Semite!" endlessly in every situation concievable for the past 40 years. They've worked constantly to keep the memory of Nazi barbarism vivid in everyone's mind as if it's present-day history, which they displace and stifle in order to do this. This in turn makes it possible for them to associate anyone who criticizes Israel with a vibrant social mythos of Nazi super-villainy, this being an extremely powerful tactic that really does work to shut down thought. It's a very clever scam. Of course, there's nothing logical or even-handed about it, it's a purely emotional, manipulative, and incredibly cynical enterprise. All the "anti-Semite!" screaming and constant reminders of the Holocaust work together to make this astonishing scam possible, and that's why the zionists keep doing both. The dozens of Holocaust memorials and museums, the Holocaust remembrance propaganda blitzes (e.g. "Schindler's List") -- billions of dollars pour into such efforts from all of zionist society, and reminding people to "struggle for social justice" has nothing to do with this. They're about twisting the knobs in everyone's head to keep the Jewish bigot's fondest dream alive: creating the Ultimate Ghetto, a place in the world where only they hold power, and where everyone else is second-class. Or worse.

"Goyim" translates, I believe, as something like "stupid cattle," and the best evidence that this characterization of non-Jews might be accurate is that this ridiculous "holocaust guilt" shtick keeps working on them year after year. It's definitely wearing thin, though.

The zionist's use of the Holocaust is a good example of "social engineering," the raison d'etre of all state propaganda, a.k.a. "mainstream media." When the media can't deliver certain lessons, or can't reach certain people, that's where "education" steps in. And when neither "media" nor "education" works, that's when governments send out their killing squads to simply exterminate those who won't be converted. Israel and the global zionist community are showcases of all three methodologies.

On another point, one of these zionist screamers threw out a hilarious red herring that must have appeared in the Fall 2004 edition of the Zionist Handbook, it's appeared so much lately:

"The new Iraqi regime is propped up by the US. The rogue Arab regimes I was alluding to, *including the PA*, are a different matter. Egypt receives about $2 billion in US foreign aid annually and others much less, but when you combine all those sums you get about $3 billion dollars or more -- about the same some Israel receives annually."

Uh-huh. The present governments of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq are thus reduced to "rogue Arab regimes, bent on pushing Israel into the sea (segue maudlin Klesmer)." This is such an incredibly childish and flimsy distortion of facts, I have seen no stronger demonstration of the zionist's inherent contempt for the intelligence of their opponents. All of these governments, including that of Iraq, are now ACCOMPLICES in the Western bid to dominate the region, Israel being since 1967 the foremost accomplice in that same bid. That's one reason these "rogue Arab regimes" are so repressive: their PEOPLE certainly hate Israel and want it gone, but these governments oppose this and use their U.S.-funded militaries and intelligence networks primarily to suppress underground efforts to fight Israel. If they did otherwise, they'd be back where they were thirty years ago, when they had to turn to the Soviets to equip their armies against Israel. Like, duh. All that ended while Sadat was still in office, for which he was killed by an Arab nationalist, for which in turn the incredibly repressive Mubarak government has been stomping the guts out of Egyptian society ever since. Mubarak is a U.S. puppet. Him and Sharon get together on the third Tuesday of each month and suck each other's dicks while wallowing in U.S. currency.
 

Morbid doesn't begin to describe the arch-bigot

I'll disregard his nauseating tirade, except to illuminate for the readership the real meaning of one Hebrew word the above sick and hate consumed racist is misinterpreting.

The word "goyim" (plural of "goy") means either non-Jews or nations. In early biblical times (i.e. Old Testament) it primarily carried the latter meaning, but ever since has gradually come to denote non-Jews.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Coting Joseph Massad as a source for anything shows the corruption of Steven Argue's arguments:

Read:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp

www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp

www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/10/27/417f373992380

www.meforum.org/article/526

I've been reading with great interest Steven Argue's ramblings in here. He admits to being a Stalinist while claiming he is democratic. He wants Israel and America destroyed because they
are "Capitalist" systems and this supports violent terrorist movements like the PLO and BAath Party that want that destrcution. No lie is too great (3 billion to Israel! Not true. 3,000 killed at Sabra and Chatilla). He engages with rhetoric worthy of Pravda at the height of the Soviet Union.

Clearly Indymedia is a hate website of the radical left. It doesn't even practice responsible journalism.
 

A rose by any other name...

What you say about the term 'goyim' may well be true in literal terms. However, given the brazenly manipulative attitude displayed by you and other Jewish supremacists toward the parties it signifies, it may as well mean what I said.

And if this nit-picking twaddle is all you can come up with as a rebuttal to my last, I'd say your ass is kicked.
 

Sabra and Chatilla: THe lies of Steven Argue

My sympathies to Mr. Kaplan if he debates this Steven Argue because the man knows no limit to his lying. For anyone who wants the truth about Sabra and Chatilla go here:
members.tripod.com/arabterrorism/FAQ/shatilla.html

Mr. Argue, my family was murdered by the PLO. You stink, sir. For you are an apologist and propagandist for murderers and have no compunction about lying. Mr. Kaplan seems to be right. You should stick to working with plants.
 

Yet another Indymedia anti-semite

THe commentary by 'anti-bigot" is plainly anti-Jewish. Jews are not supremecists. Israel was the only country that took in the Vietnamese boat people when no other country in the wprld would. Israel is the first to dispatch emergency aid in Africa, Turkey and now Sri Lanka (refused in an act of anti-semitism, the Sri Lankens took supplies and money but refused to admit Jewish aid workers).

Nor does Judaism teach supremacy. The concept of the "chosen people" does not mean Jews are better than others, for they are not, but that they must set an example to the rest of the world
as part of their duty as Jews. Hence, the acceptance of the baot people that the racist Arab world wold not admit (as well as Europe),
hence the emergency aid even to the Iranians after their major earthquake.

"Anti-bigot" uses his title to attack Jews, just like Steven Argue does by using "Zionist." Both of these men are intellectually and factually bankrupt and cannot be taken seriously.

If people come to Indymedia for alternative points of view only to read such nonsense as
"I am opposed to capitalist states like the United States and Israel" and try to pass their hate and warmongering off as peace advocacy, then
Indymedia is indeed a worthless media site.
 

Indymedia is a haven for bullshit artists

The quote above from an Indymedia "volunteer":

falsely attributed posts
by sc-imc volunteer 25 Dec 2004
santa cruz indymedia editorial volunteers reserve the right to hide posts which are obviously incorrect or misleading. This includes attempts to spread dis-information or to impersonate another individual.

Oh, yeah? The article this thread sprang from claims DAFKA was involved ina death threat. I listened to the death threat and there was no mention of DAFKA. That makes the author a liar.

Likewise, DAFKA is said to ahve been in HAyward at aa speech by MECA. They were never there, yet another lie.

So "Indymedia volunteer" when are you removing the bullshit article?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"Jews are not supremecists... Nor does Judaism teach supremacy."

Please show me another major religion in which virtually every holy day in the entire annual cycle reiterates the following theme: "then these other so-and-sos fucked us 50,000 years ago, but we overcame. Just like ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE have been trying to fuck us every day since then, but still we overcome."

Clue: there isn't one. No other modern religion has so much xenophobia and separatism built into it at such a fundamental level.

Judaism is also unique among religions in the way it perverts Jewish identity into a quasi-racial construct, when there's absolutely no reason to do this -- unless you're pathologically obsessed with "racial purity," that is. After all, they DO accept converts, but if you enter the religion this way, the "blood-Jews" never really accept you... Degrees of "Jewness" become evident in which heredity is all-important.

Similarly, the Ashkenazim discriminate against the Sephardim, The Hebraphones against the Yiddophones, the rich Jews against the poor Jews... It's fucking ridiculous. More discrimination goes on WITHIN the various sects and classes of Jews than you're likely to witness BETWEEN any two other entire religions.

Then there's the clear Jewish tendency to self-segregate, by which they've VOLUNTARILY separated themselves into ghettoes since antiquity, and can still be seen doing this today in neighborhoods in Brooklyn, the ultimate example of course being Israel itself.

I could go on.

Not that I think this really deserves special attention. Unfortunately, this sort of idiocy is merely human. I bring this up only because your assertion was ridiculously ignorant. Oh, never mind, just go back to watching Fox News for another ten hours.
 

The arch-bigot: a legend in his own morbid mind

He considers himself the ultimate authority on anything Jewish. Therefore, he purports to know both the literal and metaphorical meanings of all words in Jewish languages, and if you lay out both the real meanings of any, expect the asswipe "anti-bigot" to get smart-assed on you.

Sure, there will always be those who will eagerly consume his sickening racist lies and manipulation of certain facts for the sake of peddling his hate -- as we have just witnessed in his post above mine -- like manna from heaven. Then there's reality, and reality is something the arch-bigot and his ilk will never accept as it doesn't yield itself to their hate consumed perceptions of the real world.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

He's funny because his name shouldm be "bigot" instead.

So Jews put themselves in ghettoes,eh? OF course, this fits the current Arab propaganda line that the Jews also did the Holocaust to themselves to create the state of Israel.

Would Steve Argue, the self-acclaimed human rights advocate who supports suicide bomebrs refute anti-bigot's comments above on here?

Indymedia is little better than a pro-Nazi website maquerading as freedom of speech. It attracts the baser part of society.
 

Against All Bigotry

A Zionist (surely Lee Kaplan) writes, "Coting {sic] Joseph Massad as a source for anything shows the corruption of Steven Argue's arguments."

I never quoted Joseph Massad.

He then writes, "I've been reading with great interest Steven Argue's ramblings in here. He admits to being a Stalinist while claiming he is democratic."

I've never admitted to being a Stalinist but have instead painstakingly pointed out that I am not. This is the typical kind of slander Lee Kaplan keeps throwing at me.

Another Zionist then writes, “Would Steve Argue, the self-acclaimed human rights advocate who supports suicide bombrs [sic]…?

I do not support suicide bombers.

“Anti-Bigot? writes, “Then there's the clear Jewish tendency to self-segregate, by which they've VOLUNTARILY separated themselves into ghettoes since antiquity, and can still be seen doing this today in neighborhoods in Brooklyn, the ultimate example of course being Israel itself.?

The segregation of Jews into the ghettos of Europe was not voluntary. Jews were a persecuted minority. They had an economic niche where they were tolerated to a degree at times under feudalism, but with the advent of capitalism that niche was eliminated and the poor Jews of the ghettos became a hotbed for socialist radicalism as well as being targeted for pogroms and extermination by the capitalist classes as well as the Czarist government of Russia. This culminated in Adolf Hitler, the extreme nationalist and protector of capitalism grabbing power with the backing of the capitalist class and committing genocide against the Jews as well as other groups deemed to be a problem for German imperialism and capitalism across much of Europe. Fortunately Hitler was dumb enough to have attacked the Soviet Union, which led to his defeat.

While all this was going on the Zionist movement was collaborating with Hitler and focusing on building up settlements against their real enemy, the native Arabs. This is all documented in my earlier posts.

While Israel and Zionism is the biggest cause of anti-Semitism against Jews in the world, and therefore the biggest threat to Jews, it is important not to let Israel's governmental crimes against one nationality bring us to hate another. Jews are not the enemy, the Israeli government is.
 

Lowdown Argue keeps lying

There was NO collaboration on the part of the mainstream Zionists with Hitler and the Nazis except to try and secure through monetary payments the saving of Jews in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. The only exceptions to this were Fieval Folks, a midlevel Haganah officer. There was also an attempt by the far Right Stern Gang -- by no means a mainstream Zionist rooster -- to strike a cooperation deal with the Nazis against the British in return for having all Jews under Nazi occupation expelled to the Land of Israel. It must be noted though that their offer was made before they got wind of the Nazi Final Solution plan for the Jews.

As for the notion that all local Arabs were native, the truth is many were not. Actually, since the turn of the 20th century, if not before, most of the Arab population consisted of migrants that were to arrive in ever increasing numbers until 1948.
the fact is the British occupation government recognized a few times during the 1920s and 1930s that at least tens of thousands of Arabs had infiltrated into the land from neighboring Arab countries and beyond.
During World War I, the Jewish population declined because of the war, famine, disease and expulsion. In 1915, approximately 83,000 Jews lived in Palestine among 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs. According to the 1922 census, the Jewish population was 84,000, while the Arabs numbered 643,000.(Arieh Avneri, The Claim of Dispossession, (Tel Aviv: Hidekel Press, 1984), p. 28; and Porath, pp. 17-18). Thus, the Arab population continued to grow exponentially even while that of the Jews stagnated.
Throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants(John Hope Simpson, Palestine: Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development, (London, 1930), p. 126.).
The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.? (Palestine Royal Commission Report, p. 291.)
The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.?(Palestine Royal Commission Report, p. 242.).
Your earlier posts don't do this fact any justice, which is yet another reason not to accord them a credible authority.

Antisemtism's greatest cause is the bigotry ingrained in the minds of the antisemites themselves, that's all. The present Israeli government is carrying out policies and committing many deeds that many find disagreeable at best, but on the whole the enemy is found elsewhere. Palestinian and Islamic militancy (not to be conflated with Islam and all Palestinians, just so you don't start crying your usual "racist" bullshit) and their Useful Idiots throughout the globe, particularly in the West, are the real enemy. What you and your pathetic ilk fail to grasp is that Israelis would never crown Sharon some 4 years ago in the first place if it weren't for Palestinian rejectionism (at Camp David and Taba) and militancy (the intifada they chose over the negotiation table). If Sharon hadn't existed, it would have been some other tough guy.

Your anti-Zionist fervor renders you inimical to the truth wherever it clashes with your misconceptions.
 

Re: "So Jews put themselves in ghettoes,eh?"

Yes, they did. This was true of the Venice ghetto, the one all the rest are named after. Look it up. It was not true of ALL ghettoes, nor did I make that claim. That meaning was assumed, but I'll concede I should have expected this and been more clear. Furthermore, if you bother to observe the way Jews do the same thing in modern cities like New York, i.e. congregate into closed urban societies, even sealing their neighborhoods off behind walls and armed guards, the claim becomes unspectacular and self-evident. And once again, Israel is the largest and clearest example of all. How obvious does this need to get for you?
 

Woe unto those who take the knucklehead Bigot seriously

His rhetorical zigzags are becoming a pattern. Now he's trying to backpedal from his earlier lie that the Jews have always "VOLUNTARILY separated themselves into ghettoes since antiquity" by claiming they willingly confined themselves at least to the Venice ghetto. But even that's a lie. Whoever doubts he's lying should read a bit on the topic from these URLs:

www.giroscopio.com/english/enciclopedica/Life_in_Venice's_Ghetto.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_Ghetto


As for what happens in NYC and other urban centers, the ultra-Orthodox Jews form separate congregations as a means to best enable themselves to practice their unique lifestyle -- unique even among religious Jews who could be "merely" Orthodox or Conservative. The security measures they employ have been proven imperative by events such as the 1991 Crown Heights riots in which an unruly African-America mob murdered a Jew and caused untold damage to property. But it should be expected of the arch-Bigot to apologize for or even justify those riots. This racist lowlife has a problem with ultra-Orthodox Jews trying to keep antisemites at bay since he would rather they be vulnerable to attack.

His reference to Israel as one giant ghetto where Jews voluntarily live and flock to perhaps emblemizes the biggest paradox of antisemitic bigotry: antisemites wish, on the one hand, that Jews be removed from gentile society everywhere on earth; on the other, they bitterly wail whenever Jews do just that and congregate in one place of their own.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"As for what happens in NYC and other urban centers, the ultra-Orthodox Jews form separate congregations as a means to best enable themselves to practice their unique lifestyle -- unique even among religious Jews who could be "merely" Orthodox or Conservative. The security measures they employ have been proven imperative by events such as the 1991 Crown Heights riots in which an unruly African-America mob murdered a Jew and caused untold damage to property."

Oh, I get it now. New York Jews wall themselves off from the icky Goyim because ONE JEW got killed by a nasty nappy-headed porch-monkey 13 years ago. My God, how traumatic for them. Gee, I wonder if any Asians in New York have been killed by non-Asians in the past 13 years? Or Italians? Or Irish? Or Blacks? Or hell, plain vanilla WASPs, even? Maybe EVERYONE should emulate the clannish Brooklyn Jews by moving into racial enclaves and hiring paramilitary goon squads to harass the shit out of anyone who steps off their own turf. Yeah, that would be sane, wouldn't it (nodding manically)?

You really are a fuckhead, you know it, CT? First you pretend I'm delusional for bringing all this up, then you prove me right by displaying the mentality yourself. It's simply amazing.

"antisemites wish, on the one hand, that Jews be removed from gentile society everywhere on earth; on the other, they bitterly wail whenever Jews do just that and congregate in one place of their own."

Yeah, well that's not me. All I ask of Jews is that they accept an equal, unexceptional place in whatever society they find themselves in, exactly as countless other groups have. This includes not siphoning wealth out of communities whose air they just happen to breathe and shipping it off to their pet colonial project in the Middle East. You want to live in a place, then be loyal to THAT PLACE. If your heart and soul reside in Israel then godammit take your ass to Israel. "Dual loyalty" is a synonym for treason, and the dual loyalists keep proving it.
 

Thus spake the arch-Bigot:

"Jews aren't entitled to congregate in neighborhoods of their own (hey, never mind Little Italy or Brighton Beach and others...).
"Jews _steal_ wealth from the gentiles they dwell amongst and transfer it to their main ghetto, Israel (yeah, it's so 'cause I say so).
"Only US Jews -- not US Arabs or any other ethnic group -- have divided loyalty, aren't loyal to their place of inhabitance at all."
 

On Nazi and Zionist Collaboration

The Zionist claims, "There was NO collaboration on the part of the mainstream Zionists with Hitler and the Nazis except to try and secure through monetary payments the saving of Jews in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. The only exceptions to this were Fieval Folks, a midlevel Haganah officer. There was also an attempt by the far Right Stern Gang -- by no means a mainstream Zionist rooster -- to strike a cooperation deal with the Nazis against the British in return for having all Jews under Nazi occupation expelled to the Land of Israel. It must be noted though that their offer was made before they got wind of the Nazi Final Solution plan for the Jews."

This is false.

This same Zionist has not refuted any of the facts or references I posted earlier on this subject, so I will now re-post them:

Hitler seized power in 1933 with a clear fascistic program that
called for the annihilation of all socialists, communists, labor
leaders, and Jews. Despite this fact the Zionist Federation of
Germany sent the Nazi Party a memorandum on June 21, 1933 stating: "…a
rebirth of national life such as is occurring in German life … must
also take place in the Jewish national group. On the foundation of
the new [Nazi] state, which has established itself on the principle of
race, we wish to fit our community into the total structure so that
for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the
Fatherland is possible…." (Brenner, Zionism, pg. 48).

The policy of supporting Hitler was later upheld at the World
Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 where a motion to take action
against Hitler was defeated 240 to 43. Thus the Jewish boycott of the
German economy at a time of economic weakness and vulnerability was
broken with the World Zionist Organization's Anglo Palestine Bank
resuming trade. In fact the World Zionist Organization became the
principal distributors of Nazi goods in Northern Europe and the Middle
East.

Feivel Polkes was a member of Zionist leader Jabotinsky's Haganah
militia. He was sent by Jabotinsky to Berlin to inform Nazi leader
Adolf Eichman of his intention to spy for the S.S. in exchange for the
release of the money of German Jews for use on the Zionist project.
Zionist Feivel told Nazi Eichman, "Jewish Nationalist Circles are very
pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the
Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that
in the foreseeable future the Jews would reckon upon numerical
superiority over the Arabs" (from Brenner, "Zionism" pg. 99).

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's minister of propaganda, felt so fond of
the Zionist movement and their close working relations that he wrote a
12 part report in Der Angriff (The Assault) praising the Zionist
movement and ordered a medallion struck with a swastika on one side
and the Zionist Star of David on the other.

Collaboration included an agreement in Hungary between Zionist
agent Dr. Rudolph Kastner and Nazi leader Adolph Eichman. Under the
1944 agreement the Nazis would murder 800,000 Hungarian Jews without
Zionist interference and with complete silence from the Zionist
movement. In exchange 600 prominent Jews would be freed from Hungary.
The Nazis then opened up a Rescue Department in Hungary headed by
Kastner. These facts were exposed by a survivor named Malchiel
Greenwald who was subsequently sued by the Israeli government, sued by
the same leaders that had fashioned the deal made by Kastner in the
first place.

Kastner's collaboration with the Nazis was confirmed with the
Israeli court stating, "The sacrifice of the majority of the Jews, in
order to rescue the prominents was the basic element in the agreement
between Kastner and the Nazis. This agreement fixed the division of
the nation into two unequal camps, a small fragment of prominents,
whom the Nazis promised Kastner to save, on the one hand, and the
majority of Hungarian Jews whom the Nazis designated for death, on the
other hand." (Judgment given on June 22, 1955, Protocol of Criminal
Case 124/53 in District Court, Jerusalem)

The Zionists subsequently ignored a plan drawn up by the resistance
that could have saved many, if not most, of Hungary's Jews. The
Zionist silence and lack of action against Nazi atrocities in fact
characterizes their stance throughout the entire holocaust. A plan
complete with maps was drawn up that would blow-up railroad tracks to
the death camps and crematoria and airdropped ammunition to the 80,000
Jews in Auschwitz. Part of the plan also included the parachuting of
saboteurs to blow up the Auschwitz facility that was murdering 13,000
people a day. Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting
the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they
could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations.
Likewise Great Britain and the United States could have carried out
the proposed measures as well, but chose not to save the Jews and felt
no pressure from the silent Zionist movement to do so.

This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against
Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message
to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews
from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death
by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to
the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men,
infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you,
our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you
ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of
this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching
now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of
thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their
destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty.
Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold
bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with
folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the
murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel,
are you insane?" (From Shoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")

The Zionists also fought against the immigration of Jews to other
countries where they could escape extermination. Explaining their
policy of pressuring Great Britain and the United States not to adopt
immigration policies that would have saved the lives of Jews Zionist
leader Ben Gurion stated in 1938: "If I knew that it would be possible
to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England
and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I
would opt for the second option" (from Brenner, "Zionism", pg. 149).

The ability of the Zionist movement to sacrifice the lives of
millions of Jews for the settling of Palestine had a consistent inner
logic. That logic speaks volumes. While some of the first victims of
these Zionist madmen were the Jewish people, the Palestinians were
next. And today the continued Zionist mistreatment of the Palestinian
people is one of the biggest threats to the lives of Jewish people
because some of the Arab victims of Zionism now do not differentiate
between the crimes of Zionism and the Jewish people. In addition the
Israeli government aided in the formation of the anti-Semitic
organization Hamas and today uses their suicide bombings against
civilians as a way to gain sympathy and support in the Zionist war
against the Palestinian people (more on this later). Objectively the
Zionist capitalist state is, in fact, the common enemy of both Jews
and Arabs.
 

Brenner is a questionable source

The pathetic anti-Zionist above is spamming his disinformation and lies from before in the hope they'll come true and/or convince more people. Hopefully not very few will buy into his crap.

There was NO collaboration on the part of the mainstream Zionists with Hitler and the Nazis except to try and secure through monetary payments the saving of Jews in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. The only exceptions to this were: Fieval Polkes, a midlevel Haganah officer who wasn't even acting on behalf of the Haganah brass and its superiors in Labor's precursor or the Jewish Agency; an attempt by the far Right Stern Gang -- by no means a mainstream Zionist rooster -- to strike a cooperation deal with the Nazis against the British in return for having all Jews under Nazi occupation expelled to the Land of Israel. It must be noted though that their offer was made before they got wind of the Nazi Final Solution plan for the Jews.

Argue apparently doesn't want you to realize I've already refuted one lie in Brenner's text he's now reciting, a discredited source. I've already pointed out one lie, namely Brenner's embedded claim that the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization (Irgun was his paramilitary organization in reality).

As an aside, I notice most people, including even Steven Argue, have lost all interest in the "article" and its "gospel".
 

SSSShhhhh..must correct a sentence:

My first paragraph should end:

"Hopefully very few will buy into his crap".
 

Brenner is an excellent source

The Zionist writes, "Argue apparently doesn't want you to realize I've already refuted one lie in Brenner's text he's now reciting, a discredited source."

You have not refuted anything, and none of my sources are discredited by you are anyone. Brenner is an excellent source. You my dear Zionist are not.
 

How can you reason with deluded argumentative clowns?

ANY reliable source will tell you that Irgun was Jabotinsky's organization; NO reliable source will ever tell you the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization.
You obviously can't bring yourself to admit that Brenner is wrong on this one point at least. But then again, you're hardly the fountain of truth anyway. You've left a very long trail of lies and other forms of deviation from the truth on this thread and who knows where else.

Additionally, I don't ever recall seeing even Nessie, SF-IMC's grand editor and censor, ever claiming most of what you keep reciting on this topic. And believe me, he's very zealous in his incessant attempts to link Zionists to Nazis.

Call it excuse making, it's just that I don't have enough time on my hands now to critically examine how the rest of Brenner's claims jibe with the facts as presented by historians superior to him in experience, research, integrity and reputation. Perhaps I'll get to that sometime later.

Now you may get back to patting yourself on the shoulder and reciting to yourself thrice "what a good boy I am".
 

Jabotinsky's Haganah And The Reliability Of Brenner

The Zionist claims, "ANY reliable source will tell you that Irgun was Jabotinsky's organization; NO reliable source will ever tell you the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization."

Here are some Zionist sources that also back up the position of Brenner, Schoeneman, and I on Jabotinsky and the Haganah:

“in 1920 Jabotinsky organized the Haganah in Jerusalem?

www.jafi.org.il/education/100/people/BIOS/jabo.html

“Anticipating anti-Jewish violence by Arab extremists, in the spring of 1920 Jabotinsky
organized the Haganah in Jerusalem, openly leading it to confront?

www.funtour.co.il/Jabotinsky.html

“During Passover in 1920, Jabotinsky stood at the head of the Haganah in Jerusalem
against Arab riots?

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/jabotinsky.html

“In 1920 Jabotinsky organized and led a Jewish self-defense movement (Haganah)
against the Arabs in Palestine.?

www.odessit.com/namegal/english/jabotins.htm

“While in Odessa, Jabotinsky organize the "Haganah", the self-defense Jewish
organization, to fight back against the anti-Semitic hooligans.?

www.ou.org/chagim/yomhaatzmauth/jabo.html

******************
And here are two great ANTI-ZIONIST work on this subject:

The Iron Wall, Zionist Revisionism from Jabotinsky to Shamir
(1984) By Lenni Brenner

www.marxists.de/middleast/ironwall/

Ralph Schoenman: “The Hidden History of Zionism? (1988).

www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/
 

Let's clear up your confusion

(a) The "Haganah" squad in Odessa (Russia) wasn't related to the "real" Haganah that was founded in June 1920 in Jerusalem. Neither of these organizations were branches of the other. The only two things they have in common is their name and purpose, the defense of Jews.

(b) By 1921 Jabotinsky had stepped down from the Haganah's leadership. This can be deduced from the webpages you linked to.

(c) "In 1935, after the Zionist Executive rejected his political program and refused to clearly define that “the aim of Zionism was the establishment of a Jewish state,? Jabotinsky decided to resign from the Zionist Movement. He founded the New Zionist Organization (N.Z.O) to conduct independent political activity for free immigration and the establishment of a Jewish State. In 1937, the Irgun Tzvai Leumi (I.Z.L) became the military arm of the Jabotinsky movement and he became its commander." (www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/jabotinsky.html).
The leftist Labor had ultimate control of the Haganah by the mid 1930s rivaled Jabotinsky's rightwing Zionist ideology which had come to a head those days. Therefore, Jabotinsky's true Zionist paramilitary organization was Irgun. He commanded it some 3 years until his untimely death.

(d) Oddly, Brenner doesn't mention the date for
Feival Polkes' act. Another source claims, "In 1937, the Labour "socialist" Zionist militia, the Haganah (founded by Jabotinsky) sent an agent (Feivel Polkes) to Berlin offering to spy for the S.S. Security Service in exchange for the release of Jewish wealth for Zionist colonisation." ( www.libertyforum.org/printthread.php).
By 1937 Jabotinsky hadn't been participating in the Haganah's activities. So Jabotinsky couldn't have sent Polkes. Even the anti-Zionist source I've just quoted isn't claiming Jabotinsky sent him.


So much for Brenner's credibility on this point.
 

Examination of Brenner's claims

(1) "Hitler seized power in 1933 with a clear fascistic program that called for the annihilation of all socialists, communists, labor
leaders, and Jews. Despite this fact the Zionist Federation of Germany sent the Nazi Party a memorandum on June 21, 1933 stating: "…a rebirth of national life such as is occurring in German life … must also take place in the Jewish national group. On the foundation of the new [Nazi] state, which has established itself on the principle of race, we wish to fit our community into the total structure so that for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible…." (Brenner, Zionism, pg. 48)."

Well, that's what he *claims* (according to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism).
I haven't found allusions to this supposed memorandum other than in antisemitic and anti-Zionist websites; there's no trace of it even in neutral websites. Therefore there's no compelling reason to believe such a document ever existed. If such a memorandum was sent, it's possible Brenner had doctored it and taken it out of context. The quote suggests he engaged in selective omission, if this is even a real document.

(2) "The policy of supporting Hitler was later upheld at the World Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 where a motion to take action against Hitler was defeated 240 to 43. Thus the Jewish boycott of the German economy at a time of economic weakness and vulnerability was broken with the World Zionist Organization's Anglo Palestine Bank resuming trade. In fact the World Zionist Organization became the principal distributors of Nazi goods in Northern Europe and the Middle East."

Brenner is positing a policy (no less) of Zionist support for Hitler and the Nazis by the *worldwide* Zionist movement. Yet he isn't stating when this imagined support began and how.
Furthermore, no neutral (between Zionist and anti-Zionist) websites can be found featuring Brenner's above claims of breaking the Jewish boycott against Germany and of the WZO becoming the principal distributors of Nazi goods in Northern Europe and the Mideast.

(3) "Feivel Polkes... was sent... to Berlin to inform Nazi leader Adolf Eichman of his intention to spy for the S.S. in exchange for the release of the money of German Jews for use on the Zionist project. Zionist Feivel told Nazi Eichman, "Jewish Nationalist Circles are very pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that in the foreseeable future the Jews would reckon upon numerical superiority over the Arabs" (from Brenner, "Zionism" pg. 99)."

I've already touched on this claim above, but now I'll elaborate and provide the context that Steven Argue hasn't (no surprise at all).
Nazi Germany and the Jewish Agency concluded the Trasfer ("Ha'avara") negotiations on Aug 25 1933, allowing Jews immigrating to Palestine to deposit part of their assets in Germany and receive Palestine pounds upon arrival in Palestine. After three months of talks, the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank, and the German economic authorities signed the agreement, which permitted the transfer of Jews’ capital from Germany to Palestine by immigrants or investors in the form of goods. The German authorities thereby partially removed a barrier that had greatly impeded the efforts of German Jews to emigrate to Palestine and, at the same time, increased the production and export of German goods. For the Zionists, the agreement facilitated immigration to Palestine by allowing Jewish emigres to salvage some of the value of their property as they left, and to meet one of the criteria for obtaining a certificate of immigration from the British authorities. For a time, the Ha'avara Agreement helped the Nazis in undermining the anti-Nazi boycott. See www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/chronology/1933-1938/1933/chronology_1933_18.html .
It's very plausable that Brenner as well as other anti-Zionist writers used this event as fodder from which they concocted the above events referenced in clauses (2) and (3). Fievel Polkes' contact with the Nazis could probably have been in the framework of the execution of the Transfer Agreement.

Mr. Brenner branded the Zionists in Germany as embracing Nazism because they didn't fight it. And although Dr. Prinz (the German Jew interviewed in one of his books) explained that Zionists were few, and notwithstanding helplessness in general of Jews under Nazi power, Mr. Brenner seemed to fancy that conflicts among people are settled by movie-like "fighting it out", regardless of the realities. This agrees with his revolutionary attitude, which understands human conflicts in terms of one class overthrowing another. Those who don't agree are considered enemies, and accordingly Mr. Brenner cannot imagine that Zionists may have tried to somehow accommodate Nazis in order to save as many Jews from Nazi persecution.


(4) "Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's minister of propaganda, felt so fond of the Zionist movement and their close working relations that he wrote a
12 part report in Der Angriff (The Assault) praising the Zionist movement and ordered a medallion struck with a swastika on one side
and the Zionist Star of David on the other."

There was NO "close working relations" between the two movements; nowhere is there a reference to this concocted event in websites that aren't antisemitic or anti-Zionist.

(5) "Kastner's collaboration with the Nazis was confirmed with the Israeli court stating, "The sacrifice of the majority of the Jews, in
order to rescue the prominents was the basic element in the agreement between Kastner and the Nazis. This agreement fixed the division of
the nation into two unequal camps, a small fragment of prominents, whom the Nazis promised Kastner to save, on the one hand, and the
majority of Hungarian Jews whom the Nazis designated for death, on the other hand." (Judgment given on June 22, 1955, Protocol of Criminal Case 124/53 in District Court, Jerusalem)"

The Kastner allegations were eventually disproved in the Israeli Supreme Court. After he was at first found guilty by the district court of collaboration with the Nazis, the decision was eventually appealed and overturned on Jan 15 1958 for lack of evidence.
In reality, Kastner and his Zionist fellow travellers were faced with the possibility of rescuing a few hundred Jews or no Jews at all. They chose to rescue those who could be rescued. There's no evidence for Brenner's allegations that exceeds this realistic sketch of what had happened.

(6) "The Zionist silence and lack of action against Nazi atrocities in fact characterizes their stance throughout the entire holocaust."

It's not true that there was a complete lack of action on the part of Zionists. One of the most famous efforts at saving Jews during the Holocaust was the the dropping of 32 Haganah parachutists from Palestine in 1943-44 behind enemy lines in the Balkans, Hungary and Slovakia (including Hannah Szenesh, Enzo Sereni and Haviva Reikof) on March 15 1944.

Now, this is another obvious lie of Brenner I'm dispelling.


(7) "A plan complete with maps was drawn up that would blow-up railroad tracks to the death camps and crematoria and airdropped ammunition to the 80,000 Jews in Auschwitz. Part of the plan also included the parachuting of saboteurs to blow up the Auschwitz facility that was murdering 13,000
people a day. Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations."

It's extremely debatable whether or not bombing the camps would have saved millions. Especially since bombing the camps would have meant killing the Jews inside of them. In fact, Auschwitz *was* bombed at least once by the allies.
Moreover, what good would all that ammunation had done the Jews who weren't in any physical condition to handle firearms, if they even knew how to use any. Brenner is talking out of his ass.

(8)"This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message
to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men, infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you, our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of
thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the
murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel, are you insane?" (From Shoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")"

What Schoenman fails to mention is that the Zionists did in fact try to funnel money to Rabbi Weissmandel; however, the deal was doomed to fail from conception. One reason being that the Jewish people just didn't have the money that the Nazi officer who was making the deal demanded. And more importantly the Nazi officer himself was a swindler who had no intention (or real power for that matter) to save any Jews (Yoav Gelber, "Jews For Sale?").

Read the reviews of both "A reader" (the first) and Martyn Andrews and then the one by "pitel" (who provides a poignant summary of the two others) on www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0929675010/002-9989835-8128819.

Brenner is an anti-Zionist because he's a doctrinaire communist. It's no surprise that Mr. Argue warmly embraces his every utterance as he's communist too.

For the most part, only the Zionist Yishuv (the pre-state Jewish population in Palestine) was willing to take in German Jews pre-WWII.


I'm not concerning myself in this post with Brenner's references to Zionism post-WWII as his allegations have been amply refuted elsewhere.

Conclusion: Brenner's credility hangs a bit above zero.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Thanks for the info, Mr. Argue, very good stuff.

It should be pointed out that Nazi Germany isn't the only place where the zionists betrayed and essentially terrorized and killed Jews in order to build Israel. Two years after Israel was created by U.N. fiat, they did it again in Iraq, where they bombed Jewish places of assembly, including synagogues, in order to scare Iraqi Jews into Israel.

groups.msn.com/ISRAELISTATETERRORISM/yourwebpage18.msnw

The juicy stuff is on this page:

groups.msn.com/ISRAELISTATETERRORISM/yourwebpage21.msnw

Jews need to recognize how malevolently insane this movement is and how absolutely antithetical it is to their true interests.

I look forward to seeing your caterwauling goggle-eyed idea of a rebuttal, CT. I'm sure it will be side-splitting, as usual XXXOOO
 

Arch-Bigot, your crap is too old & never gets any more true

"It should be pointed out that Nazi Germany isn't the only place where the zionists betrayed and essentially terrorized and killed Jews in order to build Israel. Two years after Israel was created by U.N. fiat, they did it again in Iraq, where they bombed Jewish places of assembly, including synagogues, in order to scare Iraqi Jews into Israel."

I've seen that bollocks quite often on SF-IMC and Indybay.

As for Iraq in particular, the vast majority of Iraqi born Jews disagree with the one or few that make those anti-Israeli claims at every conceivable turn. How convenient it is for the moonbat crew to rely on a crackpot that has sold out truth.

"Jews need to recognize how malevolently insane this movement is and how absolutely antithetical it is to their true interests"

Like he even gives "less than a shit", as he puts it.
Your issues are with Judaism, tough guy. No ones fooled on that.

The only people taking your writings seriously are you and the lunatic fringe that post to IMC and out-and-out hate sites.

If you want to keep deluding yourself I'm spending more than a pinch of emotional energy dealing with your trash, knock yourself out.
 

Sure enough!

"As for Iraq in particular, the vast majority of Iraqi born Jews disagree with the one or few that make those anti-Israeli claims at every conceivable turn. How convenient it is for the moonbat crew to rely on a crackpot that has sold out truth."

Ha-hahahaha-HAAAAAAA!!!

Yeah, that's your idea of a "refutation," all right: don't address the substance of the charge in any way, just launch a childish character attack at both the author and the messenger. That's the fallback technique of all you gatekeepers, I've noticed. When faced with an argument you can't readily dismiss, you revert to childish denials and insults. Thanks, CT, you never let me down ;)
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Uri Avnery's mother was an Iraqi Jewess. She disinherited him when he started his revisionist history for the Arabs. Jews, especially during world war 2 when Irawq was a NAzi satellite, were routinely executed for entertainment in the village square. This included in 1948 and beyond after Israel was founded.

The handful of Jews in Iraq under Saddam could not dpeak the truth about persecution. The rest fled to Israel.

Anti=-Bigot is such a misnomer for such a hater of Jews.
 

Brenner is a crackpot and he's got lots of company

I really didn't know that much about Brenner prior to this thread, and I thank Steve and Critical Thinker for so thoroughly laying out the opposing points of view. I'm sure any fair-minded reader will be able to sort out the good from the bad.

Another so-called historian the left calls upon constantly to support their re-writing of history is Edward Said (now deceased). His manipulation of census figures to sell the notion of rightful ownership of Palestine by the Arabs is highly deceptive. Said was censured by his own fellow faculty members for falsifying data to "prove" erroneous conclusions in a paper he wrote.

Even his "Palestinian" ethnicity is counterfeit. His mother was an American Christian and his father a wealthy Egyptian businessman. Since his parents met while his mother was in Jerusalem with her missionary parents, Edward was born in Jerusalem. But in his early childhood, his family moved back to Egypt where he grew up.

What makes this so startling is that Said's main theme in his "historical" writings on Palestine are of an indigenous Palestinian people who have centuries of history with the land of Palestine, while the Jews are merely european colonists usurping Palestinian land.

In truth, Palestinian Arabs are a mix of Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanian and Egyptian Arabs who legally qualify as Palestinians if they resided in British Palestine for only two years prior to 1948. They didnt have to have lived in the West Bank for generations.

As for Jewish ancestry in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, the roots are very deep indeed. Archaological evidence amply documents a Jewish presence in the areas mapped out in the Bible as the Kingdom of King David. Hebron was a Jewish city until the Arab massacre of 1929. The tomb of the Patriarchs is there in the city that Indywriters like to note is a "Palestinian" city of 120,000 with (only) 5000 Jews".

People also ought to look at a map. No-not a map of postage-stamp sized Israel. But a map of the entire Arabic-Islamic empire. It stretches from Morocco on the west coast of Africa all the way to Indonesia.

Why can't there be just a little bit of land somewhere in this ocean of sand and sea for a tiny Jewish State??

Racism against Jews is where the fault lies.
 

Oh, another thing

My "issue" is with liars and hypocrites. If you're a Jew, and you construe any outside criticism of Jewish politics as being tantamount to genocide, while at the same time being yourself the most whacked bigot on the map, using revolting apologetics to frame your own invasion, terrorization, and orchestrated destruction of a different culture as "self-defense," then YEAH my "issue" is with YOU. And I have never in any way presented my "issue" as anything else. If in your absolute contempt for the intelligence of others you want to then distort my considered disgust into "anti-Semitism," then you just go ahead and knock yourself out, baby.

I don't have quite as much contempt for a random audience, and I think they'll figure you out just fine.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

1) Becky Johnson is not Jewish.
2) The Jews in the Middle east do not terrorize the Arabs. The arabs seek to annihilate them and they defend themselves. There are 4.9 million Jews against 250 million Arabs.
3) ISrael finances the PA, Israeli doctors treat Arabs for free at Hadassah hospital. ISrael gave the Arabs half their tiny land mass to make peace.
4) Bigot (that's his real name) is not an anti-bigot. He hates Jews. He's what Jews call a shmuck.
 

Once again the Zionists resort to slander

The following post with my name on it was written and posted by Lee Kaplan, not by me:

"Once again, I wish to apologize to Becky Johnson and Lee Kaplan for my articles in here. I realize now my sources of information were not accurate and only serve to generate anti-Semitism. Part of the problem has been my sexual relation with Wendy Campbell where pillowtalk [sic] centered around hopw [sic] to rid the world of Jews by any means necessary. My wife and I have discussed this affair and now I am seeking psychiatric help so ask the readers' indulgence. My rpevious [sic] postings only encourage war and injustice and that is not my true aim. Again, my apologies. Steven Argue"

Once again the Zionists, unable to intelligently defend their anti-Arab and genocidal system, resort to slander.

As for the Zionist who claimed, "ANY reliable source will tell you that Irgun was Jabotinsky's organization; NO reliable source will ever tell you the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization." I thoroughly debunked that, but now she wants to make other claims of inaccuracies in order to try to discredit Brenner. I will respond to these new charges later when I have more time.
 

Not exactly as you're making it out here.

The first paramilitary organization Jabotinsky founded in the Land of Israel was the Haganah. But Irgun was the paramilitary organization he led and commanded for much longer. In this very real sense Irgun was his organization. Any reliable source will support this.

As for my pretty thorough examination of Brenner and Schoenman's claims, if you can find any neutral or even Zionist sources that refute anything I've established, then by all means, surprise me. I wish you good luck in that task, because you'll need it.

In closing, I'll remark that your conflating me with Becky Johnson is still hilarious. Keep the fun coming.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Critical Thinker wrote, "NO reliable source will ever tell you the Haganah was Jabotinsky's organization."

Then later "Critical Thinker" wrote, "The first paramilitary organization Jabotinsky founded in the Land of Israel was the Haganah."

Therefore, by "Critical Thinkers" own reasoning, "Critical Thinker" is not reliable source.
 

""Critical Thinker" is not reliable source."

I've made two factual errors in this thread. That's nowhere near the abysmal record of the likes of Steven Argue, Lenni Brenner, "anti-Bigot" and the other clowns. Your clever resort to a logical deduction to knock me won't change this.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue keeps attributing posts to me that make fun of him. First, let me say I do not write posts on indymedia that often as the entire website is usually a waste of time and suitable only for someone of Mr. Argue's skills as a journalist.

Mr. Argue makes continual accusations against me that I write things about him that are not true that I do not. Some would call that paranoid, if not downright insulting. Mr. Argue, have you any proof that I wrote what you say I wrote?

In addition, the "expose" article above claims that death threats were attributable to DAFKA against Alison Weir, yet lo and behold, her webssite has no quotes or recordings revealing even DAFKA's name. Accusations of DAFKA members being at a Hayward speaking engagement for Barabara Lubin were also lied about. Quotes from
the Freeman List, a link on the DAFKA site, are somehow linked to ebing DAFKA's position. Am I to assume that links to terrorist groups or their supporters also mean Indymedia endorses terrorism? It wouldn't surprise me.

Mr. Argue, you are pathetic, really. I do not write articles making fun of you but you don't mind accusing me. But then again, you don't mind attacking America and Israel with as much slander and venemous anti-Semtisim as you can muster under the guise of being "anti-Zionist."

Go pull some weeds.
 

Lee Kaplan, You Are Not Fooling Us

Much of what I say Lee Kaplan wrote is posted directly under his name.

In addition Lee Kaplan posts under my name and the names of others. When he does this he misspells things in the same way as he does in posts under his own pro-war and racist name.

Example under the name Lee Kaplan, "Jsut [sic] got back from New Year's..."

Lee Kaplan commonly mixes up the order of the letters in the exact same way in posts that are not under his own name.

In addition the whole attitude, demeanor, and the speech patterns in these posts are the same as Lee Kaplan’s. I have no question in my mind, Lee Kaplan, that it is you who makes these childish and slanderous posts.

Here is an example of that demeanor that Lee Kaplan posted under his own name on Indy Bay, “34. Steve Argue _-Makes accusations I attacked people who I've never written or spoke about and soem [sic] I never even heard of. Hates Jews and tries to cover it with the euphemism Zionism. Doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground regarding Middle East history (except what he reads on websites from the PLO). Says Jews even born in Israel ahve [sic] no rights. Hates America. Loves communism. All talk about communism as he lives in America. A bullshit artist. According to Indymedia has psychological probelms [sic] and has sex with cactuses.?

Pure bullshit and lies.

As for any problems with the original article, I think those are for Will Wallace to clear up. Due to sound problems I cannot listen to the recording of the death threat that was posted, so I cannot comment on its content, nor have I verified that this was the actual death threat posted by Alison Weir. It seems that another source had made this same possible mistake and that this was then repeated as an honest mistake by Will Wallace. The accusations against Lee Kaplan and Becky Johnson in the rest of the article, however, all appear to be true.

As for your refutation of the following list on Indy Bay, I must once again inform you that I did not write the list:

********
"Agent Lee,

"Everyone knows you continually post under the comments section under various names, not to "comment" about the article, but to continue your campaign of hate. All of your claims are ridiculous! The more you insult people like Steve, the more we are reminded of what a hero he really is.

"Here is a quick review of all the groups/people Lee and his fellow agents have attacked (either directly or by using unethical scare tactics to frighten sensitive populations):

"1. Teachers, k-12
"2. Teachers, college
"3. Gardeners(!!)
"4. Older Jewish Americans who have either been through the Holocaust or had family members who went through it.
"5. Liberal American Jews, who are the MAJORITY of American Jews
"6. Arab Americans
"7. Muslim Americans
"8. Peace Groups -- many, many, many all over the U.S.
"9. Quakers
"10. Mennonites
"11. Church of the Brethren
"12. Church of Presbyterians
"13. Tikkun
"14. Gush Shalom
"15. Mideast Children's Alliance
"16. Democrats
"17. Women's International League of Peace and Freedom
"18. Peace and Freedom Party
"19. John Kerry
"20. A.N.S.W.E.R.
"21. Michael Moore
"22. International Solidarity Movement
"23. Student groups (esp. Muslim Student Associations)
"22. Uri Averny
"23. Al Franken
"24. Teresa Heinz Kerry
"25. Noam Chomsky
"26. Edward Said
"26.5 Alec Baldwin
"Locally.....
"27. George of FRSC
"28. All of FRSC
"29. Resource Center for Nonviolence
"30. Santa Cruz City Council
"31. Scott Kennedy, former mayor"
32. Joe Williams, Peace & Freedom Party candidate for 17th dist.
33. Emily Reily
34. Steve Argue

Gee.... I'm beginning to feel like an insult from Agent Lee is a badge of HONOR.

Feel free to add to the list. (Who is next? BARBARA STREISAND??)

Yep.

35. Barbara Streisand
36. Harry Belafonte
37.Whoopi Goldberg.....
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Let's see...Someone makes some typos so it's me?
Mr. Argue, you are clearly losing it. As for your list, you ran that before and I've written about only a few of those people. As usual, you write lies, make innuendos and suggest a "Zionist" conspiracy. You even call me an "agent" of Israel.

I think you are one sick puppy. Whoever does make so much fun of you (and some of it is pretty funny), please stop. Argue makes enough of a fool of himself with his advice to Jews about what's good for them (living under Muslim dictatorship)
and his Stalinist rants.

Um...when did I write about or against John Kerry?
Teresa Heinz Kerry? Alec Baldwin? Joe Williams?
Santa Cruz City Council? Emily Riley (who?)?
Democrats? Any of those churches as organizations?

Gee, if you can't find anything I guess that makes you a liar and a fool, doesn't it? But then again
your anti-Zionist (aka anti-Jewish) diatribes already revealed those qualtiies about you.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"I've made two factual errors in this thread. That's nowhere near the abysmal record of the likes of Steven Argue, Lenni Brenner, "anti-Bigot" and the other clowns. Your clever resort to a logical deduction to knock me won't change this."

Another good example of CT's hypocrisy, since he always pretends such errors destroy his opponents
 

As for the peanut gallery...

"1) Becky Johnson is not Jewish."

How would you know? Because of her surname? Means nothing for several obvious reasons. Even not being a Jew hardly matters, since so many non-Jews have had their little Jell-O brains totally scrambled by pro-zionist propaganda.

"3) ...ISrael gave the Arabs half their tiny land mass to make peace."

Wrong again. It was the U.N. that established the original partitioning plan ( www.krysstal.com/democracy_israel_partition.html ), whereupon zionist extremists A) immediately and violently wrecked this plan, and B) have worked tirelessly to capture and completely dissolve ALL Palestinian territory ever since, in the process unilaterally pursuing war almost continually for the past 56 years. Learn some history before you waste my time again.

I saved the best for last:

"2) The Jews in the Middle east do not terrorize the Arabs. The arabs seek to annihilate them and they defend themselves. There are 4.9 million Jews against 250 million Arabs."

Another childishly flimsy falsehood. Making a terroristic example of Iraq before the entire Arab sphere is one of the main purposes of our grotesque 14-year war against that country -- most of the other excuses have been exhausted -- and the main architects of this terror war are pro-Israel double agents in the U.S. government.

As for Israel itself:

B'Tselem explores Israel's slippery "open fire rules." Many excellent case studies.
www.btselem.org/Download/Trigger_Happy_Eng.rtf
On the matter of the IDF killing and wounding totally innocent Palestinians, this report states: "These incidents are not 'exceptional' cases, but rather they constitute a large portion of the casualties throughout the occupied territories"

A similar story told by Amnesty International
nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm
"...detailed evidence that Israeli soldiers unlawfully killed Palestinians civilians, blocked medical access to the wounded, used Palestinians as human shields, tortured prisoners, and unnecessarily destroyed civilian houses. Many of these crimes are not isolated incidents, says Amnesty, but 'committed in a widespread and systematic manner, in pursuit of government policy'"

A few such incidents were actually reported by Western media, representative of another thousand that weren't:
www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn¬Found=true

www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/01/1017206174633.html

"...random strafing of heavily populated civilian areas, killing elderly women and young boys and girls."
www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4392540,00.html

The prevalent Israeli attitude that corresponds with your own willful blindness:
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/388246.html
"Apparently the public is accepting a situation in which military activity in Palestinian towns is accompanied by indiscriminate killing. With a kind of collective shrug, the killing is excused as something self-evident in the circumstances of the war, in which it is difficult to distinguish between terrorists and innocent civilians."

IDF stormtroopers murder a 95-year-old woman. Wait, don't tell me: she was a terrorist, right?
www.nytimes.com/2002/12/03/international/middleeast/02CND-MIDE.html
"From her hospital bed, Ms. Rafat told the news agency that Israeli troops approached the car as it neared a checkpoint outside Ramallah, broke its windows and then retreated and began firing at it from a distance."

Her murderer gets punished mercilessly. 65 whole days in jail!
www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml

An Israeli helicopter crew wantonly fires a missile into a crowd of civilians, killing ten:
www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,806658,00.html

An israeli terror bombing of a Palestinian primary school, injuring 20 students:
reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml

Israel bombards and destroys a UN facility for blind Palestinian children -- a terrorist hotbed, no doubt!
portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml

The appalling slaughter of Jenin refugee camp:
news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp
" 'It is clear they have something to hide – that is the bottom line,' said one senior diplomatic source."

news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi

Israeli refuseniks display more honesty than you do:
www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1098456,00.html
"The line was crossed for most of the pilots with the dropping of the one-tonne bomb last year on the home of a Hamas military leader, Salah Shehade, killing him and 14 of his family, mostly children. One captain described the bombing as deliberate killing, murder even. Another called it state terrorism."

More appalling, clearly deliberate killings of Palestinian children:
www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml

www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7127339%5E1702,00.html

www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1007051,00.html


Israel's orchestrated campaign of violence against non-aligned journalists:
www.freemedia.at/r_intifada/r_intifada_intro.htm
quote: "A journalist is a civilian, under international law, as well as according to common sense."

archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/04/05/mideast.journalists/index.html

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49904,00.html

"Photographers for The Associated Press and the French news agency Agence France-Press (AFP) were beaten by two Israeli border policemen as the journalists tried to photograph troops driving quickly down the street Tuesday with two Palestinian teens clinging to the hood of their jeep."
199.249.170.220/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp


Other aspects of Israel's terror war:

www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml

www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,76142,00.html

"the main measure to subjugate Palestinians is not war, but closure and siege. This is why Israel is so anxious to institutionalise it. World Bank experts estimate the damage caused to Palestinian economy by Israeli military attacks at $305 million in the first 15 months of the present Intifada."
www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h052402.html

The World Bank report referred to:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2820933.stm
"... according to a new report from the World Bank ... more than half the Palestinian population is now living on less than two dollars a day and that only massive foreign aid is preventing full economic collapse. This is an attempt by the World Bank to quantify in facts and figures the enormous human suffering the conflict with Israel is causing the Palestinian people.

The recurrent, plainly villainous obstruction of emergency health care delivery:
www.counterpunch.org/cantarow04102004.html
"Between September, 2000 and March 1, 2004, 2,859 Palestinians have been killed, 82 percent of them civilians. Nineteen percent of these were children under age eighteen. 41,000 Palestinians have been injured of whom 35.7 percent are children, 32.4 percent of these were struck, as was the little boy in the story below, by live ammunition, 64.9 percent in the upper body. 39 percent of the injuries were "moderate to severe"--as were those of our second interviewee. Among the injured, 2500 people have been permanently disabled, of whom 500 are children like Hakim and Mazin, described below."

An eye witness exposes the truth about the "occupied territories" -- that they're essentially Israel-administrated concentration camps:
madison.indymedia.org/newswire/display/13763/index.php

Israel's systematic assaults on international relief efforts
engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3


If Israel were OTHER THAN America's favorite fascist proxy, it would be a glow-in-the-dark nuclear cinder by now for having done all this.

A good commentary on the corporate media's obscenely biased coverage of Israel/Palestine:
www.fair.org/press-releases/relative-calm.html

One commentator puts the blame squarely where it belongs:
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1171705,00.html
 

One Out Of Every 5 Israelis Goes Hungry

While wisely using $3 billion a year to murder, rob, and terrorize Palestinians, one in every five Israeli goes hungry. So much for the Zionist utopia.

www.meals4israel.com/
 

I don't pretend any such thing

Arch-Bigot and the anti-Zionist buffoons on this thread _continually_ wreck their credibility singlehandedly. The Bigot actually had none even before he first showed up here.
 

I've just missed the teeny weeny one above...

Aside from pointing out that the Ob. -- just like the rest of the lying professional Israel haters -- is putting his own mendacious spin on Israel's treatment of the Palis, his drivel bit about Zionist utopia is a puerile trick clearly meant to lambaste Zionism. Zionism never purported to attain utopia.
 

Blizzard of villification

ANTI: You've snowed us with so many articles it would take a trememdous effort to debunk each one so I have only picked one at random to address. It's the one that you described as "An Israeli helicopter crew wantonly fires a missile into a crowd of civilians, killing ten" with the link found at:
www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,806658,00.html

Here are some items pulled directly from the article you provided:

"....A little before 4AM, hundreds of Palestinians spilled on to the streets to check on their neighbours and vent their anger..."

BECKY: hmmmmmm sounds like an angry mob to me.

The Israeli military claimed that someone "in the vicinity" had fired mortars at a nearby Jewish settlement.

BECKY: Does anyone doubt that the mortars were fired at a Jewish settlement provoking the attack in the first place? The IDF probably has aerial photographs if there is any doubt.

"And then Palestinians began killing Palestinians."

BECKY: These are the peaceful, innocent civilians the IDF brutally killed???

"The Israeli army said it launched the raid on Khan Yunis shortly after midnight to "disrupt Hamas activities in the area"."

BECKY: Could some of those Hamas activities be firing mortars at a Jewish settlement? Should the IDF have just let Hamas lob mortars all day at nearby Jewish civilians causing death and destruction with no Israeli response?


"Brigadier General Israel Ziff, the army commander in the area, said he gave orders to minimise civilian casualties but his men were forced to fight their way out of the area under heavy Palestinian attack and the helicopter was called in to protect his forces."

BECKY: So the IDF ordered his soldiers to take care and not shoot at innocent civilians. But the angry mob described above made this difficult to do.

"They fired a lot and threw grenades. There was a battle there. The helicopter aimed at this armed group and hit them," he said.

BECKY: So this group of "children and grandmas" who were angry, and out on the streets at 4AM were also firing guns and throwing grenades? Doesn't sound very peaceful to me.

"Palestinians do not deny there were men with guns in the crowd."

BECKY: Even Amnesty Intl. objects to gunmen using crowds of innocent people as cover for their attacks. This is considered a war crime.

"At funerals a few hours later for several of the victims - "martyrs" as they are invariably called by the Palestinians - the green flags of Hamas and white banners of the al-Aqsa suicide bombers were on prominent display."

BECKY: So these people support the suicide bombers of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade? Another nice peaceful group that NEVER would harm an innnocent civilian!!

"Hamas responded to the attack on the heart of its volatile stronghold by vowing to avenge the deaths of civilians "by the killing of civilians."

BECKY: Hey wait!! I thought the whole reason you included this link was to show how the IDF was killing "innocent civilians". Here the same group that the IDF attacked for lobbing mortars across the fence declares openly their plan to "kill civilians"!!!

"The response for today's massacre will come in the shape of escalating resistance and strikes everywhere in the land of Palestine," Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior member of Hamas, said. Another Hamas leader, Abed al Aziz Rantisi, called on supporters to "kill every Zionist".

BECKY: Didn't the IDF later target and kill Rantisi? I remember hearing a Free Radio programmer protest this killing and raise doubts that Rantisi was an actual terrorist. But, this quote above kind of proves that he was, doesn't it?

BECKY: How many of the Israelis do you think they consider "Zionists" worthy of killing on the spot? All of them?

You descibed this incident as the IDF behaving "wantonly" which means without provocation or rationalization, but this isn't quite true, is it ANTI?

The mortars being lobbed in the first place were the provocation. And the guns and grenades fired from the mob were also provocation for returning fire.

What's wrong with the parents for allowing their children out on the streets in an angry armed crowd at 4AM? If those children were killed, their parents are also responsible for their deaths. I think its highly likely that those "children" were lobbing rocks and maybe even firing guns in that angry crowd. But any death of a Palestinian "child" is always milked for all the anti-Israel propaganda it can generate. Indeed, there are plenty of examples of the Imams in the mosques, the teachers in the schools, govt. officials, and even parents encouraging their own children to engage in violent attacks against the IDF and the Jews. I consider this child abuse.
 

Palestinians Are People

No matter how many lies and spins Becky Johnson uses to try to distort reality, in the oppressor nation is Israel and the Palestinians are their powerless victims.

Before the U.S. aggression in Kosovo Becky Johnson and I agreed that the U.S. should not invade that country, yet it was from completely different perspectives. Becky Johnson tried explaining that the ethnic cleansing by Milosevic of Albanian Muslims was not genocide. I disagreed. I instead pointed out that U.S. intervention would cause more bloodshed and was aimed at the privatization of Kosovo mines as well as the further break-up of Yugoslavia. I explained that these three things that would make the situation even worse in Yugoslavia and that solutions could only come from the Yugoslavian people themselves. These predictions came true on every level with the KLA carrying out a large scale ethnic cleansing of Serbs and Roma under the watchful eyes of the U.S. and allied occupation. This was coupled with the destructive economic policies of privatization that also came with the occupation.

Becky Johnson and I did agree that the U.S. bombing of Belgrade and elsewhere was a horrible thing and that the use of so-called “depleted uranium? in Yugoslavia was a crime against humanity.

Yet it seems clear to me that a large motivation of Becky Johnson is that she just doesn't like any culture that is predominantly Muslim in its religion. This xenophobia is sad. All religions are a backward tug on humanity, whether it be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or whatever. To support ethnic cleansing against the Palestinian people, as Becky Johnson and the Zionist philosophy do, is a much-much greater evil than the religion and people that she hates.

The key to any solution starts with understanding that the Palestinians and the Hebrew speaking population are human beings deserving of rights. The Zionist oppressor has never had this basic understanding, and constant war is one result. Yet the Zionists claim that they can’t give rights human rights to Palestinians for security reasons. Only a socialist democratic revolution can resolve these problems.
 

Steven Angry

Palestinians are their powerless victims. >>of their own corrupt leadership and of the Arab nations in general...
 

U.S. out of the Near East!

Are Palestinians victims of "their own corrupt leadership and of the Arab nations in general?" Yes they are. Yet they are primarily victims of the racist Israeli state. The Zionist would have us think that this is an either or question. No pro-imperialist capitalist government in the Near East, Arab or Zionist, is providing the solutions. Only a democratic socialist revolution with federated Hebrew speaking and Arab speaking republics where all rights are guaranteed can solve the national question of Palestine in any meaningful way. The U.S. giving $3 billion dollars in military aid to Israel a year to help them butcher Palestinians only makes the problem worse. U.S. out of the Near East!
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Let me paraphrase the rants of Steven Argue below:

Up the revolution! Force communism onto the Jews and Arabs! A revolution by it's own nature when conducted violently as Argue states is not democratic! But who cares? I'm playing revolutionary in sunny Santa Cruz, California!!! The US and Israel are capitalist democracies and thus my enemy! I can lie because for me it's "by any means necessary!"

I can use words like butcher and genocide to incite hate of Israel and never have a peace settlement. Who cares if Israel funds the PA, provides food when needed, gave the Arabs 100% of the West Bank and Gaza for a country. It's all part of "genocide!" I can make up fake history. I can even lecture Jews on how only good Jews favor the destruction of a Jewish haven from 2,000 years of persecution. I can overlook terrorism against Jewish women and children, even non-Jewish Israelis because it's part of the revolution!"

Anyone serious about peace would suport a two state solution. But not Steve argue. He's gotta have Israel destroyed for one communist Arab Muslim state. Anyone who goes to MEMRI.org and watches Arab videos can see why the Jews need sepeartion from the Arabs (they live in peace with Israeli-Arabs inside Israel).

Honestly, Argue is such a buffoon it's laughable.
No wonder Scott Kennedy was voted out. These horses asses have been given too much play in Santa Cruz for too long.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steverino, you like to accuse Israel of racism. Israel has affirmative action programs for Arab-Israelis who get first preference at tehir universities over Jewish Israelis, even army veterans. Is this an example of Israeli racism?

The PA says no Jews can live in Palestine at all.
On theior books, it's a death sentence to sell land to a Jew. One man was excuted for selling land to Jews 20 years ago (some of the PLO thugs probably jsut wanted his property). If you go to
_www.dafka.org and click on Palestinian media you can watch PA TV and see how racist the Arabs are.

Using race as a red herring is disgusting as are you, sir. Your oibvious hate of Jews, masquerading as hate for "Zionists" doesn't play with true non-racists. And pray tell me, what kind of idiot like you spouts Stalinist dogmas against capitalism, the US and Israel and lives in a decadent American society? WHy don't you go live in Cuba or North Korea for a while. eh? The fact is you enver will because your "revolution" includes the murder of those innocents as in Israel and anyone who will not raise the mighty Steven Argue to political leadership status.

Please, Mr. Argue, you are a joke. You don't even
have the guts to be a true communist revolutionary
but rather to play at being one.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I urge everyone to read for themselves the article Becky Johnson is interpreting for everyone's "benefit," and to decide FOR THEMSELVES what this article means.

www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,806658,00.html

To my viewpoint, Becky's capacity for selective observation is spectacular. Right at the end, her apologetics become as vile as some extreme-right GOP neo-Nazis:

"What's wrong with the parents for allowing their children out on the streets in an angry armed crowd at 4AM? If those children were killed, their parents are also responsible for their deaths. I think its highly likely that those "children" were lobbing rocks and maybe even firing guns in that angry crowd. But any death of a Palestinian "child" is always milked for all the anti-Israel propaganda it can generate."

The last sentence here is an incredible distortion. Most of the killings of Pali children are never reported at all. This past week, a shell fired by an Israeli tank killed seven children in the West Bank, and most American news services didn't breathe a word about it. NPR even used the Palestinean reaction to this incident to make them look vicious and menacing, while omitting any discussion of the incident itself. Yeah, that's Becky's "Palestinian-loving" media for you.

electronicintifada.net/v2/article3476.shtml
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

"You descibed this incident as the IDF behaving "wantonly" which means without provocation or rationalization, but this isn't quite true, is it ANTI?...
The mortars being lobbed in the first place were the provocation."

Actually, what the article states, Becky, is that the IDF claimed, CLAIMED, that mortars were fired.

When an Israeli sniper blew Tom Hurndall's brains out as he was trying to help two girls reach safety, this same IDF CLAIMED their man did this because Hurndall had a gun. This past month, that Israeli sniper, Idier Wahid Taysir, admitted in court that this was a lie, that he knew Hurndall was unarmed. Nor is this the first time the IDF's been caught telling such lies, so why do you pretend, Becky, that "if the IDF says it's so, it must be so"?

www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1374851,00.html

Wouldn't it be simpler and more honest to acknowledge that Israel is capable of doing wrong, and that its wrongs should be as open to criticism as anyone else's, rather than pile delusions to the sky in your desparation to believe it's perfect and above criticism?

By the way, the confession of this sniper is another good case study in the U.S. media's "hostility" toward Israel. This item appeared in the British press, the Arab press, the leftist press, even the Taipei Times, but NOT A SINGLE MAINSTREAM U.S. NEWS SOURCE CARRIED IT. If you can find one that did, I'd love to see it.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The Hurndall case was a sham. The "confession" by the soldier, a Bedouin Israeli, not a Jew, was given after 12 hours straight interrogation after which the soldier said "Give me a cigarette and I'l sign anything." His name is Taysir and I supposed he's a "Zionist" also even though he is an Arab. The fact is, the IDF was under pressure from Israel's foreign ministry to hang someone out to dry for the British because Hurndall was a British subject. However, as with Rachel Corrie, this case is a sham:

See www.dafka.org/NewsGen.asp

The US newswires carried the story and the "confession" so as usual anti-bigot doesn't know what he's talking about. As long as he trashes the Jewish people he is a happy loser.

By the way, Hurndall was not rescuing children, that story changed as did the photos on his injuries.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

The ridiculous "argument" seen above is a classic example of that quintessential zionist syndrome, the "it's so because I say it's so" complex. Everyone should certainly open the link; the photos alone are worth seeing to understand how wildly this guy distorts ambiguous information into a "scandal."

This is a truly sick and vicious mind.

One other thing: you say "The US newswires carried the story and the "confession"." Well guess what, brainiac? The average U.S. news consumer doesn't subscribe to newswire services, so this doesn't really count as the U.S. media covering the story, does it? In fact, it makes their omission that much more serious, because they definitely KNEW about this development but ignored it anyway, isn't that right, genocidal lying fuck? I challenged Becky to show me an article on this from a mainstream U.S. source, and now I extend this challenge to you.
 

The Zionist Movement Supported Hitler

Steven Argue, "A plan complete with maps was drawn up that would blow-up railroad tracks to the death camps and crematoria and airdropped ammunition to the 80,000 Jews in Auschwitz. Part of the plan also included the parachuting of saboteurs to blow up the Auschwitz facility that was murdering 13,000 people a day. Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations."

The Zionist claims, "It's extremely debatable whether or not bombing the camps would have saved millions. Especially since bombing the camps would have meant killing the Jews inside of them."

Steven Argue responds: Auschwitz was a death factory murdering 13,000 a day. Bombing and destroying the facilities would have drastically slowed down the numbers that the Nazis could have killed.

Steven Argue wrote, "This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men, infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you, our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the
murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel, are you insane?" (From Shoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")"

The Zionist writes, "What Schoenman fails to mention is that the Zionists did in fact try to funnel money to Rabbi Weissmandel; however, the deal was doomed to fail from conception. One reason being that the Jewish people just didn't have the money that the Nazi officer who was making the deal demanded. And more importantly the Nazi officer himself was a swindler who had no intention (or real power for that matter) to save any Jews."

Steven Argue responds: Rabbi Weissmandel's plan was to bomb Auschwitz and arm the occupants, not to bribe Nazi officers. Once again the person who goes by the misnomer "Critical Thinker" is caught with their pants down talking out their ass.
 

Did Israel "Give" Palestinians A Country?

Someone under the misnomer “Truth? states that I think, “Who cares if Israel gave the Arabs 100% of the West Bank and Gaza for a country.? The following writing of mine from a couple years ago dispels this myth:

Steve Argue responds to Senator Adam Kline regarding Israeli actions in Jenin.
The following reactions were sent by Senator Kline after he read information on the cities of Ramallah and Jenin being laid to waste by the Zionists just as the Nazis smashed the towns of Guarnica and Lidice in the name of collective punishment. While the Israeli government claims that they only killed combatants Human Rights Watch has documented the following crimes in Jenin alone: murders of civilians including children, the old, and the disabled; summary executions; the bulldozing of houses with people in them; and the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields.

Sen. Adam Kline:
"Would this have happened if Arafat had bargained in good faith with Barak and Clinton at Camp David in the summer of 2000? They offered him much more than he had reason to expect, and he turned it down, knowing that there would be war, and apparently expecting to win a better settlement militarily."

Steve Argue:
"Barak's offer was not generous. In 1948 Palestinians owned 90% of the land. Since that time the majority of Palestinians have been driven from their land through Zionist violence and all are denied their basic human rights by Israel.

"The "occupied territories" in the West Bank and Gaza constitute only a small amount of the lands that have been stolen from the Palestinians and occupied by the Israelis. Israel spoke of offering 95% of those "occupied lands" to the Palestinians. Yet, even if we accept Israel's definition of occupied territories a look at this plan shows that 95% is not accurate math. Under Barak's plan the Latroun area, Jerusalem, and the Dead Sea would remain under Israeli control. This means that in reality the offer then amounts to only 65% of the total area of the West Bank.

"Barak also demanded that 80% of the present settlements in the "occupied territories" be annexed to Israel. This constitutes a drastic division of the West Bank into four isolated cantons. These cantons include the Ariel block between Nablus and Ramallah, the settlement block between Jerusalem and Bethlehem, and the Gush Etzion block between Bethlehem and Hebron. These settlements are connected by bypass roads, which are not only under complete Israeli control but also swallow up thousands of acres of Palestinian lands. In addition, many of the settlements are built on Palestinian water aquifers, thus depriving Palestinians access to water resources.

"On the small amount of land that the poor, oppressed, and exploited Palestinian people were offered they would have little to base an economy and in fact would remain dependent on the Zionist bourgeoisie for jobs much as blacks in Apartheid South African Bantustans were dependent on the white bourgeoisie for employment. With anti-Arab hatred and discrimination prevalent among Israeli employers this is not at all an attractive proposal for most Palestinians.

"According to UN resolutions 242 and 338 Palestinians are now "allowed" to take back 22% of their land. Further more UN Resolution 194 calls for the right of Palestinian refugees to return. In addition, there are other UN resolutions, including Resolution 465, which declares that the Israeli settlements in the "occupied territories" are illegal and, as such, should be removed. Resolutions 478 and 252 have declared that the Israeli annexation of Jerusalem is illegitimate.

"Meanwhile Israel has refused to comply with international law or UN resolutions as the basis for a political settlement. Each one of these resolutions has been approved by the United Nations as well as the US. Even Israel accepted Resolution 194, as a prerequisite to being accepted as a member of the General Assembly of the United Nations. Yet Israel continues to violate this agreement by not allowing Palestinian refugees the right to return, while at the same time granting Jews from anywhere in the world the automatic right to immigrate.

"During the second round of meetings at Camp David, Barak would not even consider the basic right of Palestinian refugees to return. In addition, he refused to accept that Israel has any political, legal, or moral responsibility for the plight of the Palestinians. He dealt with the refugee issue within the framework of individual cases of family reunification, which violates the Palestinian right to a homeland and also is against international law. This clearly illustrates Barak's attempt to relinquish all responsibility for the destruction of Palestinian villages and the violent purging of Palestinians from their homeland turning them into refugees around the world.

"Through approving resolution 194 and subsequently ignoring it the Zionist government has shown its word to be meaningless and the US has shown its real policy towards Palestinians in the billions of dollars in U.S. military aid to the Zionist Israeli regime every year. Settlement building, oppression, and violence against the Palestinian people continued and in fact were stepped up, not decreased under Barak.

"Clinton's proposal in those negotiations made the assumption that the settlements of extremist Zionists in Jerusalem and the surrounding area are legal. It divided the geographic and demographic unity of the city within the framework of complete Israeli control over all Jerusalem, including the so-called Palestinian self-rule areas in the "Arab Districts."

"The Palestinians rejected these offers because for any solution to be acceptable or reasonable it must begin with Israel and the United States accepting and complying with international law. Barak and Clinton clearly rejected such a framework. Thus the negotiations came nowhere near restoring basic Palestinian rights and as such should not be characterized as, 'more than he (Arafat) had reason to expect.'

"So where is the "generous offer" of the Israeli government? Was its rejection really a lost opportunity? All Israeli proposals were simply attempts to coerce the Palestinians to accept occupation under slightly different terms. When understood properly, this "generous offer" illustrates that Israel is neither serious about a political settlement nor interested in peace. Since the beginning of Intifada 2 (September 2000), Israel has been systematically destroying the Palestinian infrastructure, not to mention carrying out its policies of assassinations and collective punishment.

"The current state of the situation has shown that Yasir Arafat's strategy of negotiations with the Israeli government has achieved nothing, that the Israeli government can not even keep their word on earlier agreements, and that there will not be peace for either the Palestinian or the Hebrew speaking population until the Israeli state is abolished and in its place a democratic secular Palestine is built with a separation of church and state where the civil rights of all nationalities are guaranteed. Only a socialist movement that represents the rights of the entire working class and speaks uncompromisingly against the discrimination and violence meted out to the Palestinians by the Israeli State will be capable of making such a revolutionary transformation. Likewise such a movement can not see the Hebrew speaking population as the enemy and must instead target the repressive apparatus of the Zionist state.

Much hope can be seen in the fact that neither the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) nor the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) target civilians. In addition a revolt has taken place within the Israeli army where nearly 400 Israeli soldiers are refusing to participate in Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people, despite going to prison for their heroic actions."

Sen. Adam Kline:
"Meanwhile (during negotiations), he (Arafat) was ordering 50 tons of explosives from Iran."

Steve Argue:
"I ask you at the time you say that Arafat was ordering what would be a comparatively small amount of weapons if the terrorist state of Israel was not ordering much much more from the United States? The U.S. sends Israel billions of dollars in military aid every year, including many explosives that are used against Palestinian civilians. In addition Israel worked with Apartheid South Africa in developing its own nuclear weapons.

"Do the Palestinian people not have the right to defend themselves from Israel's murderous troops? The Palestinian people have repeatedly faced extermination from the Israeli government. In the 1982 case of the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in Lebanon, Palestinians were rounded up and systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops and their Phalangist Militia allies.

"As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on the Israeli governments war crimes, 'The Lebanese forces militia [Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth. The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting, 'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"'We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"'Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4 PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again.'

"Sabra and Shatila are only two of the massacres of people done by the Israeli government in the past 54 years of Israeli occupation of Palestinian land. Today all of the Palestinian towns of historic Palestine are either occupied by Israeli troops who are killing people or surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks who are poised to attack. While Israeli troops are claiming that they are only killing combatants Human Rights Watch has documented the following crimes in Jenin alone: murders of civilians including children, the old, and the disabled; summary executions; the bulldozing of houses with people in them; and the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields."

Sen. Adam Kline:
"Would this (Jenin) have happened if the Palestinian militia had not purposefully taken up positions and conducted military operations from densely-populated civilian areas? They knew that the IDF would have a choice when hit by fire from a residential area: refuse to defend their people, or defend them and be blamed for firing at civilian neighborhoods.

"Does it offend you EQUALLY that civilian Palestinians and civilian Israelis were killed? Apparently, it does not occur to you that for years, especially after Arafat's refusal to deal, Palestinians had been targeting Jews in cafes, pizza joints, public squares, and in their own homes, killing babies and their others, not because they were near a military target but because they WERE the target. Your single mention of the Passover attack sure looks to me like lip service. Understand: that attack was merely the one that drew Israel over the edge, as it was intended to do.

"I used to support the peace activists in Israel. I opposed the tactics of Netanyahu and Sharon. That is, until Arafat made them necessary."

Steve Argue:
"You speak of the Palestinian people as if the actions of a few suicide bombers represent the actions of an entire people. This is the same argument presented by the Ku Klux Klan saying that blacks rape white women. Both arguments are racist and both are meant to justify racist attacks against an entire group of people.

"The Israeli offensive will not stop those willing to do suicide missions against civilians, attacks that are futile attempts to combat the genocide Palestinians face. The Israeli offensive does the opposite in deepening the conditions that created suicide bombers in the first place. The anger created by escalated Israeli murder is actually more likely to increase the number of tragic attacks on Hebrew civilians. At the same time Israel has not targeted the main base of the suicide bombers, Gaza, where Hamas is heavily organized. In fact, the murderous Israeli repression really isn't meant to stop attacks on Hebrew civilians because these bombings by Hamas actually play right into the Zionist government's aims and objectives in pushing for a final solution against the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority who the Israeli government consistently blame for the attacks done by Hamas.

"Hamas is an anti-Semitic fundamentalist religious organization that killed 150 Israeli civilians through suicide bombings between 1994 and 1998 alone. From its beginnings as the Mujama in the 1970s to this day Hamas does not face the same kind of repression as any other Palestinian group. In addition Hamas reportedly receives $28 million dollars a year from another key U.S. ally in the region, Saudi Arabia.

"The U.S. and the Saudi Arabian monarchy work together closely to systematically loot Saudi Arabia's oil resources for the profits of U.S. oil monopolies while the vast majority of the Saudi people live in poverty. In addition the U.S., Saudi Arabia, and Hamas worked together closely in the U.S. war drive to destroy the left progressive PDPA government that held power in Afghanistan from 1978 to 1992. This was a war where the U.S. government and Saudi Arabia gave billions of dollars of military aid to Osama Bin Laden and the Islamic fundamentalists of the Mujahedin who were waging a holy war against the advances in women's rights, including women's literacy, that were occurring under the PDPA government. Tactics of the Mujahedin included throwing acid in the faces of women liberated from the veil and murdering women for teaching little girls how to read and write. Fearing a Mujahedin government right on its border and defending the PDPA government from U.S. aggression the Soviet Union sent troops into Afghanistan in 1979. Although these Soviet troops were invited by the Afghan PDPA U.S. propaganda called this a Soviet invasion.

"An estimated 100,000 of the Islamic fundamentalists who fought in Afghanistan were recruited by the CIA outside of Afghanistan. Hamas participated in this activity. As John Cooley from ABC news pointed out on March 13th, 1996 in the International Herald Tribune: 'A key Hamas organizer was Abdallah Azzam. He was a tough, brilliant and charismatic Palestinian from Jordan. He supervised training for the CIA's Afghan guerrillas in Peshawar, Pakistan, where a car bomb killed him in 1989. In the earlier 1980s he toured the United States, recruiting Arab-Americans for the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan.'

"Just as the United States used Hamas against the Afghani people and the leftist PDPA government, Israel has used the religious fundamentalists of Hamas as a club against the socialist and secular nationalist movements in Palestine that Hamas has violently opposed. It is those secular and socialist movements that Israel has seen as more of a threat in terms of winning the masses of people, including Hebrew speakers, over to positions of sympathy and solidarity with the Palestinians. Hamas's suicide bombers against civilians instead serve Zionist interests in driving a larger wedge between Palestinians and Hebrew speakers, people who will need to unite against their common oppressor and killer, the Israeli Zionist government.

"Early Israeli support for Hamas included in 1978 the granting of Mujama charitable status in Gaza while other organizations, especially political organizations as Mujama was, could not get such status. In 1979 Israeli collusion with the Mujama movement set up the Islamic University of Gaza whose anti-PLO and anti-socialist slogan was: "How can uncovered women and men with Beatle haircuts liberate our holy places?" Students who did not tow the Islamic line were disciplined through brutal beatings and sometimes had acid thrown in their faces. In addition Mujama mobs were allowed to violently attack and burn down PLO controlled institutions at a time when other street demonstrations were not allowed or tightly controlled by the Israeli authorities.

"In 1979 the Mujama movement burned the Palestinian Red Crescent Society's (PRC) building to the ground. In response the PRC issued the following statement, "The tacit approval of the authorities, if not their actual connivance in what happened, was displayed in their attitude of non-interference. While they usually display great alertness to combating even peaceful demonstrations of young students within schools, here they stood indifferently watching a violently destructive demonstration march to its objectives."

"In 1988 Hamas was formed out of Mujama. While PLO supporters were organizing mass demonstrations in the streets Hamas was instead focusing on shooting Israeli soldiers. Despite this fact Hamas had top-level meetings with the Israeli government while that same government would not even meet with the PLO. Milton Edwards in "Islamic Politics In Palestine" noted the relationship: "The relationship between Hamas and the Israeli authorities was, however, at the strongest during the second year of the Intifada. The Israelis had been quick to extend legitimacy status to Hamas in an attempt to marginalize the PLO. Leaders of Hamas were regularly filmed at meetings with top-level Israeli officials and the message the Israelis were sending out was that they regarded Hamas as the type of people with whom they could work?

"In addition the Israelis continued turning a blind eye to large amounts of money coming into the country destined for Hamas coffers, while at the same time stopping the flow of PLO funds in support of the Intifada."

"In 1994 Hamas began its indiscriminate attacks on Hebrew speaking people through suicide bombings. Those suicide bombings had been stepped up by Hamas in the beginnings of the Intifada 2 uprising in September 2000, but then ended due to an agreement between Arafat's Palestinian Authority and Hamas. While this agreement was in effect world attention became focused on the gunning down of Palestinian children by Israeli sharp shooters on the West Bank. For the Zionist government this was becoming a public relations disaster.

"Israeli Prime Minister Sharon needed a new provocation he could use as propaganda to escalate the war against the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority (P.A.). To create this provocation he took action to end the truce between the P.A. and Hamas on ending the suicide bombings of civilians. On November 23rd Israeli security forces assassinated Hamas leader Mahmud Abu Hunud. On November 25th, 2001 right-wing Israeli journalist Alex Fishman accurately observed in the "Yediot Achronot": "Whoever gave the green light to this act of liquidation knew full well that he is thereby shattering in one blow the gentleman's agreement between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority; under that agreement, Hamas was to avoid in the near future suicide bombings inside the Green Line."

"Of course no one but Sharon could have given the green light for such an important operation. Sharon's provocation against the Hamas anti-Semites had its intended affect. Within days Hamas resumed attacks against Israeli civilians. In March a Hamas bomber killed 25 civilians in the Passover attack that was then used by Sharon as his excuse to attack the Palestinian people and the Palestinian Authority while leaving the Hamas stronghold of Gaza untouched.

"The U.S. government's massive military support to the Zionist State and, to a lesser extent to the repressive Saudi Arabian monarchy is responsible for the bloodshed in Palestine. The racist state of Israel currently receives 300,000 dollars per hour in U.S. military and economic aid. The F-16 bombers, Apache and Cobra helicopters used in the latest attacks are just some of the weapons used to kill Palestinians that are made in the United States.

"Socialists stand for an end to U.S. military aid to Israel and all of the crowned princes, sheiks, emirs, and Islamic fanatics of the Middle East. We understand that these U.S. policies are the policies of both the Democrat and Republican Parties. Imperialist policy isn't the result of some misunderstanding by these parties of the wealthy. Instead the repressive and genocidal policies of U.S. imperialism flow from the drive for profits by the rapacious U.S. capitalists that rule America and much of the world. Democrat and Republican politicians like Sen. Kline know that they only represent the wealthy that get them elected. The Rosa Luxemburg Club stands for building the nearly 70,000 member California based Peace and Freedom Party in every state as part of building a socialist alternative to the policies of war, racism, union busting, and ecological degradation persued by both the Democrats and Republicans. Socialists know that the only way we will get a just foreign policy, fair treatment of workers and the poor, and sound ecological policies is through a socialist revolution in the United States that redistributes the wealth and the power to the majority."
 

Steven Argumentative secretly sympathizes with Hilter

Lying Argue Buffoon:
"The Zionist Movement Supported Hitler."

This line will remain a lie no matter how much you and your equally wacked friends spout it.


Buffoon Argue:
"A plan complete with maps was drawn up that would blow-up railroad tracks to the death camps and crematoria and airdropped ammunition to the 80,000 Jews in Auschwitz. Part of the plan also included the parachuting of saboteurs to blow up the Auschwitz facility that was murdering 13,000 people a day. Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations.

"The Zionist claims, "It's extremely debatable whether or not bombing the camps would have saved millions. Especially since bombing the camps would have meant killing the Jews inside of them."

"Steven Argue responds: Auschwitz was a death factory murdering 13,000 a day. Bombing and destroying the facilities would have drastically slowed down the numbers that the Nazis could have killed."

My response:
First off, I never objected to the notion of bombing the access routes like railroad tracks.
Secondly, I doubt the buffoon Argue is such a cretin like his arguments usually make him seem. His second contention is correct, but since he's so callous regarding the loss of Jewish lives (unlike his huge concern for Arab casualties at the hands of Jews or Westerners), he doesn't mind that tens of thousands of Jews would have been killed if the facilities themselves were bombed.
Argue the buffoon also keeps parroting his communists friend's mendacious claim,
"Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations."
But as is the case more often than not with Brenner's "history", there's little truth to these claims. Neither the Zionist movement nor the dominant Labor Zionist movement in Palestine were fighting the Arabs during WWII. Labor's militia invariably limited itself to *pure self defense* action against Arab Attacks on Jews. Since Brenner's first claim is a lie, his conclusion falls flat.


Buffoon Argue:
"This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men, infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you, our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the
murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel, are you insane?" (From Shoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")"

"The Zionist writes, "What Schoenman fails to mention is that the Zionists did in fact try to funnel money to Rabbi Weissmandel; however, the deal was doomed to fail from conception. One reason being that the Jewish people just didn't have the money that the Nazi officer who was making the deal demanded. And more importantly the Nazi officer himself was a swindler who had no intention (or real power for that matter) to save any Jews.

"Steven Argue responds: Rabbi Weissmandel's plan was to bomb Auschwitz and arm the occupants, not to bribe Nazi officers. Once again the person who goes by the misnomer "Critical Thinker" is caught with their pants down talking out their ass."

My response:
don't expect communist clowns like Steven Argue to tell the whole truth even when it seems they're showing complete fidelity to it. He omitted the source I plugged in parentheses from the end of the passage he quoted: Yoav Gelber, "Jews For Sale?". The buffoon Argue believes he can pull that crap on just about everyone and get away with it so that his half-truths or lies will seem much more credible. But it won't work, because when one stacks up Argue against a reliable historian of Yoav Gelber's reputation, buffoons like Argue are revealed in their real stature -- historical feather-weights. Mr. Gelber speaks of Rabbi Weissmandel's plan as one that included bribing a Nazi officer, so no serious person should believe the buffoon Argue over a genuine and credible historian.


Argue, you've had precious little luck so far. I've yet to see you garner impartial, let alone Zionist sources to dispel what I established above. If omitting a reliable source like researcher and historian Yoav Gelber just because he's Zionist is your best shot, you're doing poorly indeed.
 

Zionists Just Can't Accept History

If you read the quote below it is Rabbi Weismandel that is accusing the Zionist movement for murder, not Argue or Schoeneman. This accusation was due to Zionist silence on Nazi autracities, as well as their lack of action on the plans that he drew up against the facility of Auschwitz. Misnamed "critical thinker" tries falling back on new arguments every time I show the Zionist to be wrong.

"This caused Rabbi Weismandel who had drawn up the plans against Auschwitz to ask of the Zionists in July 1944, "this special message to inform you that yesterday the Germans began deportations of Jews from Hungary. … The deported ones go to Auschwitz to be put to death by cyanide gas. This is the schedule, of Auschwitz from yesterday to the end: Twelve thousand Jews - men, women and children, old men, infants, healthy and sick ones, are to be suffocated daily. And you, our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you ministers of all the Kingdoms, how do you keep silent in the face of this great murder. Silent while thousands upon thousands, reaching now to six million Jews, are murdered? And silent now, while tens of thousands are still being murdered or waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts cry out to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal, you are and murderers, too, you are, because of the cold bloodedness of the silence in which you watch, because you sit with folded arms and do nothing, although you could stop or delay the murder of Jews at this very hour. You, our brothers, sons of Israel, are you insane?" (From Schoenman, "The Hidden History of Zionism?")"

In response to Steven Argue saying, "Had the Zionist movement not been so intent on fighting the Arabs rather than the real anti-Semite butchers of Europe they could have gathered the resources to carry out such operations."

The Zionist claims, "Neither the Zionist movement nor the dominant Labor Zionist movement in Palestine were fighting the Arabs during WWII. Labor's militia invariably limited itself to *pure self defense* action against Arab Attacks on Jews. Since Brenner's first claim is a lie, his conclusion falls flat."

Pure self defense eh? Nice euphemism. Isn't that the same euphemism Hitler used against the Jews?

It is true that the full-scale genocide against the Arabs mainly began in 1948, but that was not what I was referring to. I was referring to Zionist support for Nazi population transfers that would strengthen their numbers against the Palestinians.
 

Idiots for Palestine

"It is true that the full-scale genocide against the Arabs mainly began in "

What Really Happened in 1948
By Sarah El Shazly
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 28, 2004

Ever since I was a child, I've heard a range of accounts of what happened to the Palestinians and Palestine. Everyone knows the Jewish version and the Arab version. But there is a third side, that of those who lived there and still do -- the Israeli Arabs.

Some Jews want us out of Israel, and some Arabs believe that we are an extension of the Zionists. Yet we Israeli Arabs keep our culture and traditions. Mahshy, or stuffed grape leaves, remains our favorite meal. We love Arabic music; we sing old folk songs, including "Wein aa Ramallah" about a famous Palestinian city, and songs from all over the Arab world. We are unique among the Arabs, though. We have vested interests on both sides -- and are angry at both sides.



Israeli Arabs have lived alongside Jews for as long as this generation can remember. We became Israeli citizens in 1948. Before that, the region wasn't quite as divided. Families lived in an area that includes the West Bank, Gaza, and Amman, and in other Arab cities in areas where borders were created later. We were divided by boundaries set by the Europeans, and those within the boundaries of Israel became "Israeli Arabs". Now, these Arabs are the unwanted, unloved, illegitimate, and have become the biracial step-child of the Middle East conflict. We have to apologize for our very existence.



Misinformation surrounds the story of 1948. Palestinians who fled their homes are angry, bitter and distraught. No one can blame them. Yet they seem to have been taught who they are supposed to hate, who is the guilty party and who should be punished for their problems. People's memories are so short. It is easier to focus on one enemy – especially an enemy who does not belong to the same "tribe" -- than to analyze a complex situation such as the Palestinian refugee disaster.



It is not my intent to discuss who belongs in that tiny region called Israel, but I will risk being shunned by my own community to set the record straight. The question is: why did Arabs flee the area that became Israel? After all, the ones who remained in their homes still live there today and prosper.



The fact is that the Arab world warned the Palestinians against staying with the Jews. They also warned them that Arabs were going in to fight the Zionists and that the Palestinians should leave to avoid getting hurt.



Many Palestinians trusted these Arab leaders and left as instructed. Those who had lived with Jews for a long time were not as easily convinced of the danger, and these Arabs stayed home. Among them was my family, which saw cars traveling the area. The cars contained Jews. They reassured Arabs that they would not be harmed. Thus, we had a situation where Jews begged Arabs to stay and live with them, while Arabs from foreign countries told them to leave right away.



Palestinians have gotten the short end of the stick in Arab society. It suits Arab leaders to keep this group in a state of poverty and conflict, and to channel all resentment toward the Jews. You don't believe me? Ask yourself why Jordan or Egypt or Syria never gave the Palestinians a country? If I hear another non-Palestinian, especially an American Muslim, repeat the phrase "over 50 years of the Zionist occupation," I'm going to burst. Can no one actually read history? It’s not ancient history, just 1948-1967. Who had that land? Even if Arabs want Palestinians to have "all" the land, this is no excuse for denying them an independent state. And yet, we blame Israel!



As a child, I watched a Syrian play about the war of October 1973. A famous Syrian comedian played a young man who fought in the war and was taken prisoner. After his release, he was detained by his own government. At one point, the guards slapped him and he started crying.



“Why are you crying?? asked a fellow prisoner, deeply puzzled. “That was only a slap. I've seen the enemies do much more to you, and you just laughed it off.?



The comedian replied, “The enemy is an enemy, and I expect that of them. Yes, a slap is only a slap -- but from a brother, it's a slap in the heart.?



Let's take this a step further. The Arab world pretends to care, watching a young Palestinian get killed by Israel on TV, justifying Jew-hatred right before they go to their cozy beds. This is the Arab world that has taught Palestinians to fight, and yet it will not give them citizenship. Where is that love -- or, for that matter, where is the passion used to justify the Palestinian issue?



Let's go to the refugees. Arab governments first used scare tactics, and then took whatever they could get from the United States and Israel. Finally, they stuck Palestinians in camps with deplorable living conditions. Why didn't they leave them alone in their homes? Why promise them refuge and reward them with nothing more than prison camps? And, most of all, why didn't they provide Palestinians with homes in the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights when Arabs had control over them?



Please do not speak of money. Palestinian refugees receive aid from all over the world, and yet their living conditions don’t seem to improve. The "hosting" governments siphon off some money to line their pockets, and the Palestinian Authority -- or lack of it -- siphons off the rest … and the poor people get nothing.



As a Palestinian, I ask the world to please stop exploiting our issue. If you want a do a good deed, find your own. To the singers romanticizing Palestinian suffering, it is not romantic. There is nothing dreamy about it. Where’s the heroism in a small child throwing rocks at a tank? Either warn the child to stay away or just shut up! How dare you do this to our children? Does our suffering give you such good video footage and high ratings?



To the average Arab citizen, stop crying crocodile tears for us. We thank you for your kind feelings, but please, don’t offer us your pity. To the Arab and Islamic governments, fix your own problems. Do not use our misery to blind your subjects to domestic problems. Are you afraid that the people will wise up, and stop hating Israel, and turn on you? You, who have condoned so much hatred, may one day pay the price. You've created monsters, and you won't be able to handle them. Worry about creating jobs for your own poor people and educating the children, and leave us alone. In short, to all those invested in driving our children to die, please, stay away from us.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Please, Steven your acres of text on how the Jews perpetuated the Holocaust to create the State of Israel is pure arab propaganda. Nobody takes it seriously but Israel haters like you.

Go to:
www.kokhavivpublications.com/2002/israel/04/0204070640.html

Even if anyone were foolish enough to take Argue's "history" at face value, Israel exists today as a modern democracy with 6 million residents. This buffoon as Critical Thinker calls him wants the entire country (including its 21% Arab population dismantled to let the PLO take it over). At best he supports the communist terrorists in the PFLP as part of his plan. How does this mean peace, Argue?

You are a warmonger. Let me suggest something. You have a house and property? Let me create a false history where I can claim you stole it from my ancestors, the California Indians. Then let me
threaten you wiht terrorist attacks until you give it up to me. Then let the guy up the street tell you you ahve to give up your home because it fits his communist views of the world. That guy could even post on Indymedia. Let's say you offer me money to buy a new house for me and my family. I take it, pocket the funds, ensconce my wife in Paris with the money then keep attacking you insisting your house is mine.

The above is a pretty good comparison of what's going on in the Middle East conflict and with Indymedia's postings of Argue's nonsense.

Argue can publish all the made up history he wants. The facts on the ground are there are 6 million Israelis who arenot going to submit to Muslim Arab rule because they know they will ultiamtely be massacred by the Arabs. So the war drags on and on. The Arabs who deem themselves dispossessed, whether legitimately or not, can be settled in a Palestinian country, given new homes, jobs, compenstaion. Their "new" residences
(actaully the real refugees are long since dead) will be living mayne 50 miles from where their ancestors lived. Two states, hopefully the arab one will be democratic too, and everyone taken care of.

Argue jsut wants the conflict to roil on until Israel is no more. That's why he's an anti-Semite. He wants Israel's Jews to flee or be murdered. Jews are the world's capitalists to him per his Stalinist view of the world.

Nobody takes him seriously save the other warmongers in here.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

One other thing:

While it is frutiless to get bogged down in history at this point. The arab states were all Nazi allies and satellites and persecuted Jews even befre the Germans. Haj Amin al Husseini arafat's uncle spent the second world war as Hitler's guest and sought a "final solution" for Jews in Palestine who bought their land. Argue can't be as dumb as he acts. To distort history in such a way is to have an agenda. The man wants war on Israel and the Jews to go on forever until the Jews are vanquished. He is no better than the Nazis he insultingly tries to equate with Zionism.
 

The laughable Argue covertly identifies with Hitler

The buffoon Argue:
"Zionists Just Can't Accept History".

An obvious projection. Not even a nice try at that.

The buffoon Argue:
"This accusation [the rabbi's] was due to Zionist silence on Nazi autracities [sic], as well as their lack of action on the plans that he drew up against the facility of Auschwitz."

I bet Argue doesn't actually believe what he just wrote. I have exposed these claims as factually incorrect at any rate and that's what matters, not Argue's propaganda spew.

The buffoon Argue:
"Misnamed "critical thinker" tries falling back on new arguments every time I show the Zionist to be wrong."

Hahahahahahahahaha.......this is but to laugh, after I've reminded everybody how Argue made a fool of himself by lying while dropping the reliable source I used in the fist place. You know, maybe you should try a career shift to being either a mail fraud con-man in Florida or a used cars dealer.

The buffoon Argue:
"The Zionist claims, "Neither the Zionist movement nor the dominant Labor Zionist movement in Palestine were fighting the Arabs during WWII. Labor's militia invariably limited itself to *pure self defense* action against Arab Attacks on Jews. Since Brenner's first claim is a lie, his conclusion falls flat." "
Pure self defense eh? Nice euphemism. Isn't that the same euphemism Hitler used against the Jews?"

Talk is cheap. If you're so knowledgeable, let's see you DISPROVE my assertion that their actions were invariably self defense and PROVE that my phrase should be considered nothing more than a euphemism.

The buffoon Argue:
"It is true that the full-scale genocide against the Arabs mainly began in 1948, but that was not what I was referring to."

Hehehehehehehehe. Try that genocide bit again in 5 minutes.
 

Genocide Is Funny?

The Zio-Nazi writes, "Hehehehehehehehe. Try that genocide bit again in 5 minutes."

“CT? the Zionist also wrote, "I bet Argue doesn't actually believe what he just wrote. I have exposed these claims as factually incorrect at any rate and that's what matters, not Argue's propaganda spew."

Nonsense Zio-Nazi, you have proven nothing. To the contrary I keep proving factual errors in your positions that you keep pulling out of your ass. I do not have time for disproving all of your false history.

As for Agent Kaplan, he keeps claiming I am a Stalinist and an anti-Semite when I have proven otherwise.

I am done with this thread.
 

Yeah? You're done? Thanks for having amused us. FUCK OFF

So I've proven nothing and narrated false history full of factual errors, eh, slick little mendacious buffoon? These accusations must be the pinnacle of fun you've provided in this thread.

So you've had enough of spewing your wacked chewed up propaganda crap, O Palestinazi? Maybe you're telling the truth at least this time around. Not that I'm pinning any hopes on it.

********************

This is for the non anti-Zionist readers: each time the racist slur "Zionazi" is hurled, I encourage you to lob back "Palestinazi" or something to that effect. Let these hateful idiots understand their little pejorative comes at a cost. Besides, there's immeasurably more factual merit in a slur like I've just used than in "Zionazi".
 

The anti-war movement in Israel: no lessons from

http://www.israel.marxist.com/

The anti-war movement in Israel: no lessons from a bitter past
By David Merhav
12 April 2002

Every week the united front of all the Israeli parties, groups and organizations have demonstrations, protest rallies and pickets against the war-drive of Sharon’s government. In the largest demonstration, 20 thousands Israeli citizens - Jews and Palestinians Arabs - marched against the war. More and more Israelis are expressing their objection, their most deep refusal, to sacrifice their sons and their families on the altar of occupation. The massacre which was carried out in Jenin’s refugees camp was a clear sign for many Israeli citizens about the cruel character of the occupation. It was defined as war crime against innocent people. Many people knows that neither Sharon nor the Israeli General Staff will have the chance to claim for innocence of crime when the Jewish and Arab masses will examine the history, and see who is the responsible to the war crimes. The Islamic reaction, the nationalist and murderous character which most of the national Palestinian forces adopted, is a result of Sharon’s policy; of 35 years of venal occupation. Most of the Israeli-Jewish workers class wants to put an end to the bloodshed. But in this cross-road, when the workers class have to choose between the nationalist right represented by people like former infrastructure mimister Avigdor Liberman who suggested using gas against the Palestinians, or the Zionist left represented by Meretz party which objects the courageous action of refusing serving in the occupied territories, they choose the right.

In a survey of “Yedioth Aharonoth? daily newspaper, 62% Israelis expressed their support in Sharon’s government and its policy. More than 50% of the Israelis wants to place former PM Binjamin Netanyahu as the next leader of Israel. Netanyahu is the most strong opposition to Sharon’s government, and fights for a comprehensive war against the Palestinians, which will end in the total destruction of the Palestinian Authority. What led so many Israeli workers, students, youth and intellectuals to support racists like Sharon, ultra-nationalists like Netanyahu and facists like Liberman?

The answer for this question is in the character of the anti-war movement. The anti-war movement in Israel is not based upon common platform like the anti-war movement in Britain, which calls for the end of the war (and refused to call to the defeat of imperialism) and this is its main message for the workers class in Britain. In Israel, the anti-war movement is devided between the Zionist elite of the so-called “left?, represented by the social-democrat party Meretz and “Peace Now? movement, the post-Zionist left of groups like “Peace Block?, “Ta’ayush? - Jewish-Arab partnership and other committees and groups, and anti-Zionist organization like the Communist Party and small reformist socialist groups, part of them origined in the history of the Fourth International. Every section of this movement gave its alternative. There is no comprehensive alternative. The Communist Party is still based upon the Stalinist dogma of “two states for two people?; the Zionist left advances the program of “seperation plan? and international intervention by the imperialism. The anti-Zionist left hails “victory to the intifada!?, although a victory to a struggle for national liberation cannot be accomplished in the capitalist society. There is a need in socialist action of the Jewish and Arab workers in order to overthrow the nationalist bourgeoisie.

The chaos in the anti-war movement after the collapse of Oslo based upon the idea of an agreement between the Zionist ruling elite and the Palestinian bourgeoisie, created degeneration of the left. The Israeli left has nothing to offer to the masses in Israel and Palestine. Another agreement under the patronage imperialism and Zionism, a “new Middle East? which is committed to the decisions of the IMF and is being driven towards the situation of Argentina, can promise only agonies for the workers class. Most of the workers in Israel - as well as the workers in the occupied territories - has had no profits from the capitalist “peace?. The workers class - Jewish and Arab workers - found the capitalist peace as an enemy of its chance to survive in the capitalist society. The new bourgeois aparatus has paved the way to a bitter future to the workers. In the case of the Palestinians, it was accompanied by the continuation of Israel’s policy in building settelments, daily abuse against Palestinian workers, controlling the occupied territories by dividing them into bantustans and small cantons, with no will to withdraw of the West Bank and Gaza strip, and let the Palestinians build their own state with eastern Jerusalem as its capital. Only experienced Marxists have seen the trap of Oslo accords; the end was more than expected - it was known.

The anti-war movement has nothing to propose to the Jewish and Arab workers. The capitalist peace based upon the “new Middle East? plan of FM Shimon Peres, has been buried when the Palestinian masses decided to struggle directly against the occupation and put an end to seven years of Zionist fraud. The Jewish masses have a deep will to end the bloodshed, but they will not support the Zionist elite of the social-democracy, which caused disaster to the Israeli economy by insisting on integrating of Israel in the capitalist globalization carried out and forward by the American imperialism and the IMF. Neither the Jewish workers nor the Arab masses believes to the Zionist “left?. The post-Zionist left is only a militant version of the Zionist left: it has not learnt anything and still calls to international intervention. It has illusions about the character of international capitalism, and therefore it has nothing to give as alternative to the workers class in Israel. Uri Avneri, the head of “Peace Block? movement, still believes in the leadership of Yasser Arafat and the nationalist Arab bourgeoisie, although both of them betrayed the interests of the Arab masses. The anti-Zionist left has no internationalist program: the Communist Party is a part of the trade unions bureaucracy, abandoned any socialist perspective and coopoerates with the most degenerated parts of the Zionist “left?. The nationalist groups originen in the history of the Fourth International, and other militant groups, are middle-class in their character and represent an arrogant approach with no real ability to work as revolutionaries inside the workers class. Their achievements are quite negligible. The Marxist perspective has been carried forward only by revolutionaries who knows how to defend the heritage of revolutionary Marxism and work with a clear internationalist agenda, based upon Leninist and Trotskyist principles.

There is no way to win the majority of the Jewish workers class, and to convince the Arab workers class in the need for internationalist action, with no revolutionary socialist agenda. The only way out of the crisis is building the socialist federation of the Middle East, by united action of workers of all countries in the region. The end of bloodshed and a just peace with rights to every national community, will be carried out only by a socialist program for a proletarian revolutionary leadership which will be alternative for Zionism, imperialism and Arab nationalism. All of them - although there is no similarity between Zionism as nationalism of the oppressed nation and Arab nationalism as a response to long-years oppression and brutal occupation since 1948 - have no real alternative to the current bloody war.

The task of revolutionaries who works inside the anti-war movement is to start crystallize workers, students, youth and intellectuals around Marxist platform and internationalist alternative to the bloodshed. The only way to recruit new forces to the anti-war movement depends on the movement’s relevance to the historic class struggle of the workers against the capitalists. No capitalist “peace?, which is actually a complete fraud of the imperialism and Zionism with nationalist bourgeois elements in the national Palestinian movement, can be draw any future to the Jewish-Arab workers class. A socialist revolutionary agenda can carry forward the national liberation of the Palestinian people, end the Zionist aggression, win new sections in the Israeli workers class and build a strong movement, which its first goal will be: the overthrow of Sharon’s bloody government.
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I wandered in here and read the "history" by Steven Argue.

It is a compendium of made up history from Palestinian website, nothing more. Any Zionist resistance to a Jewish state before the Holocaust fell by the wayside after six million Jews were murdered. The canard that Jews encpouraged the Holocaust on themselves is an Arab invention.

Steven Argue says all his information are facts? But what authority? History from Palestinian websites?

The fact is there would be peace in the Middle East if the Arabs would stop trying to conquer and dispossess the Jews. It's not about land, it's about Islam and Arab nationalism and vengeance, tribal vengeance.

I agree with some of the writers here that these so-called "peace activists" mask their intentions to promote war, peace being only achieved with the destruction of Israel. I also agree that people who live in Santa Cruz have no business telling Israelis they must give up their country to an Arab group that has consistently called for their total destruction since Israel's creation in 1948.
 

References

The so the so-called "History Professor" claims that I get my "made up" facts from Palestinian web sites. This is weird since none of the references I cite are Palestinian websites, but they do include such radical papers as Time Magazine, the Israeli paper Ha’aretz, Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post, and Der Spiegel as in the following writing that I post as proof:

Becky Johnson seems to think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre is not worth discussing because 1982 is supposedly ancient history. 1982 is hardly beyond the statute of limitations for crimes against humanity. I’m sure you don’t have the same attitude towards Nazi butchers of the Third Reich. While I could, and have, written about the most recent crimes of the Israeli government in Jenin and elsewhere, the Sabra and Shatila massacre is still worth talking about since the current crimes are only a continuation of the past. Likewise, Sharon’s guilt in the Sabra Shatila massacre is worth mentioning.

Becky Johnson shows here extreme ignorance by claiming that this massacre was carried out by the Lebanese government. The Lebanese government had nothing to do with it. The massacre was carried out both by the Israeli military under the command of Sharon and by Israel's allies in Lebanon, the Christian Phalangists.

With the testimony Mrs. Sersawi in the Belgium appeals court on the Israeli government’s war crimes, which I’ve posted twice, I've provided Becky Johnson with clear evidence of the involvement of both the Israeli government and Lebanese Christian Phalangists in this mass murder of unarmed civilians, many that had been slaughtered after being taken prisoner by Israel. Among the dead was Mrs. Sersawi’s husband. Yet you Becky have chosen to ignore this evidence I have provided you to absurdly claim that this mass murder was only the killing of 35 combatants and that it was the work of the Lebanese government.

I will post Mrs. Sersawi’s testimony here once again at the end of this writing.

Prior to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon both Ariel Sharon and Bashir Gemayel had declared that they would create a panic amongst Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon that would reduce the numbers living there from 500,000 to 50,000. The Sabra and Shatila massacre was part of this stated goal of ethnic cleansing.

Ha’aretz reported on September 26, 1982: “A long-term objective aimed at the expulsion of the whole Palestinian population of Lebanon beginning with Beirut. The purpose was to create a panic to convince [sic] all the Palestinians of Lebanon that they were no longer safe in that country.?

As such the people of Sabra and Shatila facing the Zionist slaughter of innocents, were to meet the same fate as the Palestinian towns of Dueima, Kibya, Kfar Qasim, and Deir Yassin from 1947 to 1950.

As Time Magazine admitted on October 4th, 1982, “On several occasions Gemayel told Israeli officials he would raze the camps and flatten them into tennis courts. This fits in with Israeli thinking. The Christian militia forces that were known to have gone into the camps were trained by the Israelis.?

Major Saqr of the Phalangist Militia bragged after the massacre, “The only way you will find out how many Palestinians we killed is if they ever build a subway under Beirut ... A good massacre or two will drive the Palestinians out of Beirut and Lebanon once and for all.? (Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post).

Yet the massacre was not just carried out by these murderous Phalangist militia trained and allied with Israel, Israeli forces were also directly involved.

On February 14, 1983 Der Spiegel carried an interview with one of the killers at Sabra and Shatila, who described direct Israeli participation along side his own. The article, entitled “Each of You Is An Avenger?, is a first person account of crimes against humanity:

“We met in the Schahrur wadi, in the valley of the nightingales Southeast of Beirut. It was Wednesday, the fifteenth of September ... We were approximately three hundred men from East Beirut, South Lebanon and the Akkar Mountains in the north ... I belonged to the Tiger Militia of ex-President Camile Chamoun.

“Phalange officers summoned us and brought us to the meeting place. They told us that they needed us for a “special action? ... “You are the agents of good,? the officers told us repeatedly. “Each of you is an avenger.? ...

“Then a good dozen Israelis in green uniforms without indication of rank came along. They had playing cards with them and spoke Arabic well, except that like all Jews they pronounced the hard “h? as “ch.? They were talking about the Palestinian camps Sabra and Shatila ... it was clear to us what we were to do, and we were looking forward to it.

“We had to swear an oath never to divulge anything about our action. At about 10 p.m. we climbed into an American army truck that the Israelis had given over to us. We parked the vehicle near the airport tower. There, immediately next to the Israeli positions, several such trucks were already parked.

“Some Israelis in Phalange uniforms were with the Party. “The Israeli friends who accompany you,? our officers told us “... will make your work easier.? They directed us not to make use of our firearms, if at all possible. “Everything must proceed noiselessly.? ... We saw other comrades. They had to do their work with bayonets and knives. Bloody corpses were lying in the alleys. The half-asleep women and children who cried out for help put our whole plan in danger, alarming the entire camp.

“Now I saw once again the Israelis who had been at our secret meeting. One signaled us to move back to areas of the camp entrance. The Israelis opened up with all their guns. The Israelis helped us with floodlights.

“There were shocking scenes that showed what the Palestinians were good for. A few, including women, had taken shelter in a small alley, behind some donkeys. Unfortunately we had to shoot down these poor animals to finish off the Palestinians behind them. It got to me when the animals cried out in pain. It was gruesome.

“A comrade entered a house full of women and children. The Palestinians screamed and threw their gas stoves on the ground. We sent the hard-hearted rabble to hell.

“At about four in the morning my squad went back to the truck. When there was morning light we went back into the camp. We went past bodies, stumbled over bodies, shot and stabbed all eyewitnesses. Killing others was easy once you have done it a few times.

“Now came the Israeli Army bulldozers. “Plow everything under the ground. Don’t let any witnesses stay alive.? But despite our efforts, the area was still teeming with people. They ran about and caused awful confusion. The order to “plow them under? demanded too much.

“It became clear that the pretty plan had failed. Thousands had escaped us. Far too many Palestinians are still alive. Everywhere now people are talking about a massacre and feeling sorry for the Palestinians. Who appreciates the hardships that we took upon ourselves ... Just think. I fought for twenty-four hours in Shatila without food or drink.?

Many of the mass graves were never opened, but over 3,000 people were murdered at Sabra and Shatila.

In addition to the scenes described above, Palestinians were also rounded up and systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops in a Lebanese stadium.

As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on the Israeli governments war crimes, "The Lebanese forces militia [Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth. The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting, 'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4 PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again."
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Mr. Argue, would you please cite the specific issues and dates of your "reliable sources?" There were no Israelis involved in Sabra and Chatilla.

I note here on Indymedia your sources are usually communist party websites and terrorist organizations' websites such as the PFLP. That only destroys any credibility you may have.

May I also point something out: history is now irrelevant as ther exists a country called Israel with 6.1 million inhabitants. There exists about 5 million Palestinians. Writing reams of nonsense about Jews being behind the Holocaust to create Israel or accusing Israelis of genocide (please, there are no death camps, Hadassah hosptial even treats Palestinians from the PA for free when they need it) serve no purpose to settle the dispute and get the Palestinian people productive lives, jobs and homes. What I see if someone using a lot of space and rhetoric demanding Israel be destroyed even if it means keeping the Palestinains in perpetual war and poverty. Israelis are not going to flee or allow themselves to live uner Islamic dictatorship. I suggest Mr. Argue read the PA constitution, it is modeled after that of Saudi Arabia and Iran.

The issue behind a settlement is that each party gives something up and in return gets something else--peace. To that end, Mr. Argue is still preaching war while he talks peace.

Incidentally, the Sabra and Chatilla story above is not factual. Any eye-witnesses that "came forward" after Oslo are not reliable.
 

More False Accusations Answered

Actually I have never cited the PFLP or Communist Party as a source, nor did I say Jews were behind the Nazi Holocaust, but you already know that don't you?
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

Steven Argue wants to detroy Israel as a capitalist democracy to be replaced with a communist society under Muslim Arab domination. He did cite the PFLP
website as one of his sources in an email disseiminated in Santa Cruz. That makes him a liar as well as a sicko.
 

Palestian website mining and Steve's math

STEVE: I found your "source" with the testimony of a supposed "eyewitness" to an Israeli massacre in 1982.

www.shaml.org/ground/sharon/Vanished%20Victims.htm

It's a pro-Palestinian website, just like History Professor claimed. In fact, Mrs. Serwawi's name did not come up on any google search for Time magazine, Ha’aretz, or the Washington Post.

What I found especially telling is that Steve Argue claims that TWICE as many Palestinians were killed at Sabra and Shatila than the website he got it from claims.


QUOTING FROM THE WEBSITE:
"Early on 18 September 1982, in the closing moments of the Sabra and Chatila massacre in which Israel's Lebanese Christian militia allies slaughtered up to 1,500 Palestinian refugees, Sana Mahmoud Sersawi thought she was finally about to die."

HERE IS WHAT STEVE ARGUE REPORTED IN THE ABOVE POSTING:

"Many of the mass graves were never opened, but over 3,000 people were murdered at Sabra and Shatila."

Steve, not only do you have to go all the way back to 1982 to find a supposed "Israeli" massacre you can mine for its anti-Israel propaganda, but you have to inflate the death toll above and beyond what your tainted "sources" say.

And PLEASE!!PLEASE!PLEASE!! Quit posting Mrs. Serwawi's testimony. If it wasn't convincing the first time around, why the hell do you think it will be MORE convincing the THIRD time around????
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

That web site was not a source.
 

Poor buffoon...

That's the response he's capable of coming up with after all the time that elapsed since Becky Johnson exposed him so thoroughly as such an incorrigible liar.
 

Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed -- Updated Edition

Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed -- Updated Edition
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/14978/index.php

Since Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed was published on December 19, 2004, I have become aware of a factual error in the initial article. The original article states:

Though Kaplan didn't directly call for violence in the episodes, a little fact checking showed that groups he is associated with have been busy hijacking and illegally intruding on peaceful meetings, harassing peace activists and making at least one death threat.

- October 5, 2003. After participating in a debate at UC Berkeley on Middle East relations, activist Allison Weir received a death threat from an individual identifying himself with Dafka.

In the interest of fairness and accuracy, I retract the statements referring to Kaplan's associated groups as "making at least one death threat" and the portion of the the next paragraph which states "from an individual identifying himself with Dafka." This information was taken from a San Francisco Bay Guardian article (linked in the original article) and has since proven to be incorrect. Though the factual information regarding the time and circumstances of the death threat are correct, the death threat caller did not specifically identify himself with Dafka. At the time of my original article's publication, I did not know the information was incorrect and I regret its inclusion. The Bay Guardian has also issued a correction.

The following is a revised version of the original article, including new updated information and links. Read more to learn about Dafka, Protest Warrior, David Horowitz ; Students For Academic Freedom and Kaplan's links to Kahanism.

Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed -- Updated Edition
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/14978/index.php

By Will Wallace
 

Re: Lee Kaplan, Dafka Exposed

I think that Lee Kaplan should keep writing. He tells the truth about the pro-Israel position and makes it so obviously offensive to those who don't know what it is. He and those of his "ilk" make us look really good. Kaplan may have two, count 'em two, token Arabs who he's recruited, but the world sees that Jews volunteer for ISM (some secular, some religious) in droves. Israelis join with Palestinian communities every weekend for peaceful demonstrations. And Israeli civil rights groups have been writing for years about settler terrorism towards Palestinian citizens of Israel and Palestinians in the territories.

Keep talking Lee! Palestine activism is a breeze with you around!
 

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