Or must you always choose to ignore *key* words for your own purposes?

""People do drop a dime to read me....I have appeared internationally on radio as a commentator.� However, an extensive and exhaustive search yielded no information that could confirm Kaplan’s location, background, education, research and type of business. In addition, no evidence was found that he had been published *in print*, as he insinuated.

"PRINT" refers to printed material put out by a publisher.

Your hair-splitting routine doesn't work. Kaplan HAS been published repeatedly and has been paid a salary for his articles.

The fact that this is a new millenium, and some publications are no longer in the business of killing trees, does not mean that Wallace's claim that "there was no evidence he has been published in print" is valid. What kind of word games are you playing here? Didn't Wallace even do a simple Google search??

For him to claim that Kaplan is not a published author, has not appeared on national tv and radio shows completely misleads his readers and is pretty darn shoddy journalism.

You are clutching at straws defending this article.

and you are reaching for straws, attacking it.

seems clear to _me_!

Why else would he publish another, slightly modified edition of his mendacious Israel bashing and Lee Kaplan bashing article?

Since Lee Kaplan was defamed in Wallace's original article and falsely accused of being involved with a death threat left on Alison Weir's answering machine, this "retraction" was re-published in an attempt to avoid a lawsuit.

Too bad Wallace didn't take the time to correct much of the misinformation in his original article with this updated version.

Kaplan has also reasonably insisted that every copy of Wallace's original "Expose" article be removed from all websites across the country. If Wallace is unable to do this, the damage to Lee Kaplan's reputation will continue.

Wallace has committed some very shoddy journalism and caused unknown harm as a result. The ridiculous debate over whether Kaplan was in "print" or not shows the degree of obfuscation which Wallace and his supporters are willing to engage.

_Wrong_ again, beckyo! Actually, since lee kaplan is obviously 'a public person' and, as you have readily pointed out becky, well-'published' and thus has his own public platform for rebuttal, he cannot very easily sue another person for an inadvertant, especially unintentional mistake. Fortunate for kaplan. Otherwise plenty of others could sue _him_ - or the looney ultraright-wing electronic rags (like apparently "frontpagemag") for _intentional_ disinformation that his articles are posted in. Sorry beckyo!

May we point out that DAFKA was openly accused of being involved in a deaththreat and not Lee Kaplan? DAFKA can sue Indymedia and certainlky will if the other corrections we have demanded plus retractions to other mirror sites are not carried out. Lee Kaplan may also have a personal lawsuit against the publishers.

In any event, this shows the shoddiness of Indymedia as a news source.

DAFAK remains what it is - a rightwing Zionist internet 'hasbara' disinformation project with ties to the Hitler Youth wannabes at Protest Warrior, the Internet Haganah and the rightwing scumbuckets at FrontPage. Kaplan and his thugs can talk all the shit he'd likes and threaten suits up the kazoo, but the facts remain. As for the article, those of us who have dealt with DAFKA nitwits in the past aren't particularly impressed with these wolf tickets. Bring it on, momzer.

Thanks to Santa Cruz IMC for publishing this in the first place.

Johnson should consider first going to law school before offering legal advice. Still it would be entertaining to dipose Kaplan at length for a suit - interesting questions about the source of DAFKA's funding might reveal a tad more than they would like to see in the public eye.

"DAFKA can sue Indymedia and certainlky will if the other corrections we have demanded plus retractions to other mirror sites are not carried out. Lee Kaplan may also have a personal lawsuit against the publishers."


Becky shows that (only) a little knowledge of the law can indeed be dangerous - to making her look like a fool, as usual.

The same thing that applies to kaplan as a public person applies to your outfit as a public entity, plus one engaged in the kind of trash that you do. Plus, you obviously have plenty of opportunity and freedom to refute such claims here at sc-imc. Plus, Wallace and the Bay Guardian have already issued a correction, and so have met their ethical and any possible legal responsibility. (An ethnical responsibility which frontpageRAGazine never meets.) Finally, sc-imc carries a disclaimer: Kaplan/dafka would have a very high "burden" in court.

Finally, kaplan/dafka would have to show just _how_ their scurrilous reputations could possibly be damaged! - I mean, anymore than they have already done themselves. It'd be like the KKK complaining that someone was damaging its reputation and making it look bad!

So, demand away!

Woof, woof!

Or should I say arf arf!

(Still, what could come out in court as dafka goes down in flames would indeed be interesting.)

"Ali" says there is no Arab peace movement. This is not true. There were massive protests across the Arab world prior to the U.S. aggression against Iraq.

As for a Palestinian peace movement, the question is not relevant because it is the Israeli and Jordanian governments that are the oppressors and Palestinians are the oppressed. As such the struggle for the Palestinian people is not for peace, but for liberation.

A liberation movement that includes Palestinians and Hebrew speakers does exist. Here are some links to some of their web sites (I do not endorse the political line or actions of all of these organizations):

Socialist Struggle (Ma'avak Sotsyalisti)
www.maavak.org.il/maavak/index.php

Arab Movement for Change (Ta'al)
www.a-m-c.org/

One People (Am Ehad)
www.am1.org.il/

Communist Party of Israel (Miflagah ha-Komunistit ha-Yisre'elit / al-Hizb al-Shuyu'i al-Isra'ili, MAKI)
www.maki.org.il/

Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (Hazit Demokratit le-Shalom ule-Shivyon / Jabhah al-Dimuqratiyah lil Salam wal
www.hadash.org.il/english.html

In Defence of Marxism
marxist.back.to/

Israeli Communist Forum
www.icf.org.il/

National Democratic Assembly (Tajammu' al-Watani al-Dimuqrati, NDA/Balad)
www.balad.org/

Organization for Democratic Action (Munazzamat al-'Amal al-Dimuqrati, ODA/Da'am)
www.odaction.org/

Sons of the Country Movement (Harakat Abna' al-Balad)
www.abnaa-elbalad.org/

Spark (Iskra)
www.israel.marxist.com/

Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Jabhah al-Dimuqratiyah li-Tahrir Filastin, DFLP) periodical Al-Hu
www.alhourriah.org/dflp_e.asp

(Palestine) Palestine Liberation Organization (Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyah, PLO)
www.nad-plo.org/

Palestine National Liberation Movement (Harakat al-Tahrir al-Watani al-Filastini, Al-Fatah)
www.alkrama.com/

Palestinian Democratic Coalition ( Tajammu' al-Dimuqrati al-Filastini)
www.tajamou.org/

Palestinian People's Party (Hizb al-Sha'b al-Filastini, PPP)
www.palpeople.org/index.aspx

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Jabhah al-Sha'biyah li-Tahrir Filastin, PFLP)
www.pflp.net/

Critical Thinker and Becky Johnson sound like the same person. Becky Johnson is a foreign agent that has limitless time to spew her hatred and lies. "Critical Thinker" is obviously is writing under a false alias and is Becky Johnson's ideological identical twin.

They are a local problem. Hate speech should be silenced.

The person misnamed "The People" does not understand basic revolutionary politics. As a revolutionary I do not oppose violence by the oppressed against those in power. Those in power generally are the perpetrators of violence, but violence to combat it must serve a purpose and must be thought of in terms of political consequences. Revolutions never happen without a leadership and certainly never happen without the people, and these are the first questions that have not been resolved.

Do what you must, I will not oppose you, but I will not be dragged down by joining what looks to me like an attempt to out left me by the cops.

He's anti-democratic and an enemy of free speech on top of being small minded.

Last night, "The People" posted a death threat against Lee Kaplan and myself. This person also suggested it would be easy to follow me home.
(the comment has already been removed, as it should have been)

I am very disappointed that Steve Argue, who posted immediately after the death threat was made, found no reason to condemn it or even to comment on it.

What kind of "Peace" advocate supports shooting critics, killing people, and stalking???

Where is the condemnation of this insidious threatening behavior by the greater community?

Are you peace advocates except when you are dealing with someone who holds a different opinion?

Comparing Lee Kaplan and me to the KKK and Nazis is really crossing some kind of line. Making death threats is criminal behavior.

I filed a report at the SC County Sheriff's office this morning.

I commented on this "updated" version of this article by showing a list of article published by Lee Kaplan---and clearly showing Will Wallace to be incompetant. My comment was removed. Why??
It contained no threatening language, no obscenities, or anything that remotely resembles the types of comments that prompt removal.

This is politically-correct censorship.

Becky Johnson complains that I did not condemn a death threat against her. Yet I did not support it either, and I did speak against carrying out such an action.

I will condemn threats against Becky Johnson when she condemns the mass murder of Palestinians including children like Iman al-Hams, the unarmed 13 year-old girl that will never see her 14th birthday due to Zionist hatred.

The person or persons who made statements against Johnson also attacked me. Personally I think that silencing Becky Johnson's hateful lies through violence will only cause more problems.

`
give us a break!

now you know how it feels.

wa-ha

It wasn't a Zionist complaining about being gagged. Becky Johnson explicitly stated she does not consider herself a Zionist.

Becky Johnson is a rabid defender of the racist policies and mass murder carried out by the Israeli State. She also strongly supports the billions of dollars in military aid the United States sends to the repressive governments of Israel and Egypt every year. There is no question that Becky Johnson is a Zionist. The fact that she is not Jewish does not change this.

the Israeli State carries out no policies of mass murder. The Israeli government is gradually lifting the "repression" the Palestinians have been subjected to.

"Not only are peace advocates offended by Kaplan's modus operandi, even other Zionists have criticized Kaplan's methods. On zionist.org, Alan D. Miller criticizes Kaplan for using links to Masada 2000, a website which espouses the tactics of Meir Kahane, founder of Jewish Defense League and Kach."

Masada 2000 -- the link in the article is not correct
www.masada2000.org

What are Kach and Kahane Chai?
cfrterrorism.org/groups/kkc.html

"Two marginal Israeli groups that have used terrorism to pursue their goals of expanding Jewish rule across the West Bank and expelling the Palestinians. Both groups grew out of the anti-Arab teachings of Rabbi Meir Kahane, an American-born extremist who founded and led Kach......"

Becky Johnson says, "As for a refuge for white Christians you have all the RED states in the USA. But where do the Jews go? You see? Its not the same."

Jews are born in and live in many countries, including the United States, where they are not discriminated against anywhere near the amount of Palestinians.

And where do the Palestinians go. Palestinians are systematically discriminated against in all of occupied Palestine (what you call Israel). Those who were driven out through the terrorism of the Zionist State are not even allowed to return to their homes. Those who are driven into Warsaw like WW2 Jewish Ghettos are told they are independent while they are systematically terrorized, murdered, robbed, and denied decent livelihoods by the Zionist State.

And Becky Johnson has the nerve to say, "Watch out! Your double-standards are showing!"

That territory encompasses Israel proper, the disputed territories AND Jordan. Jordan is 75%-80% of "Palestine". Id there's any occupation it's the Jordanian. Through a defensive war and international recognition (acceptance into the UN) the Israeli Jews earned the right to Israel proper's territory; they also earned the right to purchase and settle the uninhabited portions of the disputed territories, notwithstanding Steven Argue's propaganda droning machine.

As for the theoretical question of where the Palestinians could go,-- if they get resume terror in earnest, I would say they should eventually go to the relatively vast country called Jordan; and if Jordan goes democratic on the heels of Iraq, all these Palestinians' rights would be guaranteed with no danger of Hashemite discrimination. Already a year ago I popped the idea of transforming Jordan into a constitutional monarchy, which might be the best way of saving face for the Jordanian monarch. Presently, all Jordanian Palestinians are still discriminated against and many still dwell there in refugee camps, even though Jordan doesn't deny them citizenship.

Now that Abu-Mazen at least seems bent on bettering the masses' lot and Israel has begun to lift part of the restrictions on Palestinian movement, it's up to the PA to take responsibility for their citizens instead of tossing and retossing it on Israel. It's the PA that owes them decent livelihoods, not Israel. Argue will obviously keep spewing his baseless nonsense here, but the Palestinians aren't being murdered and robbed.

You're stubborn refusal (and others) to acknowledge and accept the Jewish State of Israel is one of the main forces driving the continued conflict. Israel exists and it's not going anywhere. Get used to it.

STEVE WROTE: "Jews are born in and live in many countries, including the United States, where they are not discriminated against anywhere near the amount of Palestinians."

BECKY: Steve, you are wrong again. Consider the following stats:

Hate crimes against Jews in the USA in 2002 = 931
Hate crimes against Islamics in the USA in 2002 = 155

Please note this is in a post 9/11 era in which hate crimes against Arab/Muslims in the USA increased four-fold. Even though ALL of the 9/11 terrorists (or do you think they were freedom fighters???) were Arab/Muslims.
That means that for every hate crime committed against an Muslim in the USA, there are 6 hate crimes committed against Jews.

source: www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

STEVE WROTE: "Those who were driven out through the terrorism of the Zionist State are not even allowed to return to their homes."

Actually, Israel set up a special board to handle this as part of their immigration dept. Those who wanted to return had to apply, fill out the paperwork, show some kind of proof (deed to a house, birth certificate, marriage certificate, etc.) and have a background check done to see they were not wanted terrorists. Israel re-admitted 170,000 Palestinians inside of Israel after the 1948 war under this program.

As for your contention that the refugees were "driven out" through "Zionist terrorism" that is not a fair description of the events as they occurred. The vast majority of Palestinian-Arab refugees of the 1948 war fled due to the advice of their Arab leaders.

Read: The Truth about Arab Refugees in 1948 at:
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/10895

This article amply footnoted and provides dozens of references.

A note on numbers of refugees: 420,000 refugees were counted by the UN in 1948. They opened up services to any Arab who applied and got 650,000 to sign up. Thats almost an extra 200,000 who were not truly "refugees" of the '48 war.

Remember, the YOUNGEST refugee from 1948 would be 56 years old today.

Also: opinion polls in Palestinian camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan show that only 10% are even INTERESTED in "returning". And of THAT percentage, only 5% would "come back" if Israel were still in charge.

The Right to Return is another red herring issue the left severely distorts in their non-stop diatribe against the Jewish State of Israel.

Now Becky Johnson claims it’s been Israel for only 56 years after claiming previously that it was for 3,000 years. And remember the youngest refugee from that time would now be dead.

I have already proven issues like the fact that Israel carries out mass murder against Palestinians in previous threads.

I'm tired of talking circles with complete and total idiots like “CT� and Becky Johnson. I have much better things to do with my time than trying to teach being human to Zionists. I think I'd have more success teaching metamorphic rocks how to read and write.

Duh. The MODERN State of Israel was founded on May 14, 1948 and is currently 56 years old. The ANCIENT kingdom of Israel existed between 1000 BC and 135AD. The HEBREW people have lived in the area for 3,300 years with a continuous Jewish presence throughout the entire time.

STEVE WROTE: "I have already proven issues like the fact that Israel carries out mass murder against Palestinians in previous threads."

Steve??? Did you even PROVE that one child was murdered by the IDF? Your best example de jour , Iman al-Hams has demonstrated (per the aerial photo I posted on the thread about her case) that:

A) Many of the witnesses quoted in leftist articles must have been lying
B) Serious questions exist about whether the little girl was sent there on a mission
C) Palestinian sources can't be trusted

Also: death stats show a lower percentage of Palestinian youth under age 15 killed than Israeli youth under age 15. If either side can be blamed for killing children, its the Palestinians. Of course, sadly, they both kill childern.

* death stats at www.ict.org.il

Genocide

Genocide

Genocide

Genocide

love ya

"Palestinian sources can't be trusted"

The preceeding statement made by Becky Johnson, is patently racist.

The buffoon Steven Argue claims he has already "proven" this "fact", which is no more than rabid anti-Zionist fiction regularly dolled out by him and his ilk. He has posted reams of disinformation and now believes they amount to proof. He'd do well if he simply stopped writing about the Arab-Israeli conflicts altogether and stuck to his professional botanic (or whatever) pursuits and perhaps other actual topics save for these.

Argue's mind is impermeable to nearly all evidence and proof proving him wrong just like his teflon-minded and equally mean-spirited comrade, the deranged racist "Truth" Warrior. Argue is in no position to teach anyone jack except maybe to impart knowledge from his own professional botanic trade. His posts on these threads show that he's invariably not merely in need of being taught the facts, but in having them literally crammed into his mind powerfully enough to penetrate the ideological defenses that prohibit him from accepting duly documented and proven evidence the way most non-communists would.

Vinny: "The preceeding statement made by Becky Johnson, is patently racist."

That's far leftist & Liberal PC crap. If she or somebody else said "Israeli sources can't be trusted", no one would have come and claimed that was a racist statement.

Vinny, you are a big one for throwing labels on other people. If you discount the messenger, you can ignore the message, right?

Are you saying that Palestinian sources are generally trustworthy? Are you saying that IDF sources are generally NOT trustworthy? Let's revisit a few examples.

Didn't Palestinian "sources" on George's Free Radio Santa Cruz show claim that 1500 Palestinians were killed in Jenin in 2002? Didn't the PA release the final list of 56 killed? (the IDF had said 49 dead all along).

Didn't a Palestinian film festival report that the Jenin refugee camp had been, quote, “largely destroyed� during an Israeli military action in 2002? But a United Nations report notes that while the center of the camp had been totally destroyed, the extent of the destruction for the camp as a whole was 10 percent. (look again for aerial photos on the IDF website).

10%, 100%?? Whats the difference? For the Palestinians, 100% makes Israel look worse.

Didn't Palestinian sources claim the IDF had shot directly into a crowd of 100 demonstrators killing several children when the aerial drone videos showed the IDF firing a warning shot into a field nearby?

Didn't Palestinian sources say the IDF had "found only 3 tunnels" in Rafah when in actuality they had found 70 tunnels? (that "fact" made it into the New York Times)

Didn't Palestinian sources say that perhaps half of Jordan’s five million people are Palestinian refugees of the '48 war? But most Palestinians in Jordan are not refugees. In actuality, approximately 1.7 million Palestinians, or only one-third of Jordan’s population of 5.3 million are registered with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) as of Dec. 31, 2002. Moreover, not all of those registered with UNRWA are actually refugees. UNRWA itself has acknowledged that its statistics on refugees are inflated due to figures are based on information voluntarily supplied by refugees primarily for the purpose of obtaining access to Agency services and hence cannot be considered statistically valid demographic data.

Didn't Palestinian sources claim An Arab Boy Tossing Stones was Shot to Death in West Bank

In actuality, the boy, according to Israeli sources said that soldiers opened fire after he climbed on top of the tank, threw a firebomb at the soldiers and tried to steal its machine gun.

And don't forget your favorite, Vinny. Anti-Israel sources within Israel!

Ha'aretz Magazine said,in an article by Gideon Levy, 1/21/05): Have you ever stopped for a moment next to a sign that leads to the Ofer camp, a euphemism for a mass detention facility in which about 800,000 Palestinians are now imprisoned, most of them without trial?

800,000???? The number is actually 800.

Islamic law teaches that any tactic, including lying, is acceptable in the cause of Holy Jihad. Vinny and George have gotten guest after guest after guest to repeat some of this fabricated and inflated "horror" stories about the IDF while they rarely report any Palestinian violence, no matter how violent, senseless, or brutal.

This lopsided reporting on the part of George and Vinny could be considered by some as "racist".

Nice try CT, but you are trying to shift the debate. I never said such racist statements about Israelis, never thought that way, and donot belive that to be true. I don't EVER make blanket statements about a people... but Becky Johnson, the RACIST, does.

When the message is about justifying racism, and violence, and yes, Becky, GENOCIDE, its easy to ignore.

Shifting the debate? I?? Becky Johnson was alluding not to the Palestinian *people* but to Palestinian *sources* in the context of the Iman el-Hams incident. You're deliberately misreading her argument so that you could somehow arrive at a position to brand her racist, very similar to how you misread my comment on the issue. Sorry, it's not working.

Vinny is right to not have a supporter of the racist Zionist State on his show.

Becky Johnson's complaints are like those of the white racist South Africans that saw black news sources as unreliable and communistic while complaining about the low morals of black parents for letting them go out to be gunned down by the Apartheid government.

Then again Apartheid South Africa and Apartheid Israel were always good friends, so it should be no surprise that their propaganda is identical.

Apartheid was an official policy, enacted by law of political, legal and economic discrimination against blacks. Apartheid is a political system based upon minority control over a majority population.

Israel, is a majority-rule democracy like the U.S. and gives equal rights and equal protections to all its citizens. It grants full rights and protections to all Arab inhabitants inside of Israel, a reality best exemplified by Israel's Arab members of parliament. Israeli citizens struggle with prejudices among its many minorities, just as all multi-racial, multi-ethnic democracies do, but Israel's laws try to eradicate --not endorse--prejudices.

The Palestinian Authority, not the Israeli govt., governs the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Like many Arab nations, the PA does NOT offer equal rights and protections to its inhabitants. Branding Israel an apartheid state is inaccurate---and emotional propaganda.

While Israel has no plans to ethnically cleanse its Arab citizens, many leftists and Palestinians call for the complete ethnic cleansing of any Jew currently living on the West Bank or Gaza.

If anyone is calling for Apartheid, its groups on the left.

For example: This is from www.womeninblack.org

"Contact Israeli officials and tell them to end the occupation, dismantle the Israeli settlements and grant Palestinians their human right to freedom of movement.

"· Contact Israeli and US officials to express your outrage that Israel continues to build and invest millions into the settlements in the Occupied Territories – while these settlements, and their occupants, are one of the greatest obstacles to peace and justice for Palestinians and Israelis.

"· Contact US officials and tell them to pressure Israel to dismantle the settlements, which U.S. tax dollars pay to defend."

NOTE: It doesn't say dismantle SOME of the settlements. Nor does it concern itself with Jewish communities on the West Bank and Gaza that have been there for centuries.

Ironically, WIB also condemns people like me for "falsely" claiming that there is any movement to ethnically cleanse Jews from the West Bank or Gaza. they can't have it both ways.

Steve defends Vinny for having a completely one-sided presentation of an issue on his many radio shows.

In the above article, I am condemned for producing "a locally produced television show, has been used as a platform for virtual infomercials for an extremist group with a record of harassing peace advocates.

But when Vinny has ONLY anti-Israel guests and reports on his radio show for years, he gets a free pass.

(BTW we never 'harassed' peace advocates unless you count disagreeing with them)

What could you expect? Steven Argue is simultaneously

A) a communist,
B) a rabid anti-Zionist, and
C) an anti-Arab racist (as he demonstrated on the original "Dafka exposed" thread).

So much nonsense so, so little time. The professional Zionists never seem to ever leave this site to progressive anti-racist thought for even a minute. I do not have the time to keep up with them.

To answer “CT�’s latest crap:

I am a revolutionary socialist and not a communist in the Leninist sense of the term.

Yes I am an anti-Zionist just as I am an anti-racist opposing racism against all peoples. Since it is Zionism oppressing and terrorizing an entire people, it is hard to understand what a “rabid� anti-Zionist would be.

Perhaps "CT" could explain their third absurd statement that I am an anti-Arab racist. I doubt I’m the only one that you lost with that one.

What a crock. Your brand of thought is not only immobile, it's even reactionary. At an absolute most, a communist can pretend to be progressive.

I known not all communists are Leninists. But thanks for tipping us off.

If you want to obtain real anti-racist credentials, the first step would be for you to apologize to the Arab guests on Club Cruz for labelling them "Arabs". And I couldn't care less who "lost" me besides you when I pointed to your racism.
Secondly, you'll have to recognize that contrary to one of your favorite and oft touted lies, Zionism (note you weren't saying the Israeli military or govt.) is not at all oppressing, much less terrorizing the Palestinians. That you'd even make that claim shows what bonehead thinking you're usually afflicted by when writing on the Palestinian-Israeli dispute.

From La-La Land "CT" states, "Zionism (note you weren't saying the Israeli military or govt.) is not at all oppressing, much less terrorizing the Palestinians."

I do not need to differentiate between the hateful Zionist philosophy and the government that upholds it anymore than I have to differentiate between Adolf Hitler and Nazism.

As for the hateful, malicious, and likely Mossad agents paraded on the show taken over by Lee Kaplan, they are no more representative of Arabs than mass murderers Powell and Rice are representative of American Blacks. Their actual "Arab" identity is also in question since Kaplan and Johnson's group Dafka brags about misrepresenting their own members as people from the east.

And of course the Zionist State is oppressing and terrorizing Palestinians, everyone, even you and Johnson, knows this.

Argue:
"I do not need to differentiate between the hateful Zionist philosophy and the government that upholds it anymore than I have to differentiate between Adolf Hitler and Nazism."

See what's going on here? First the slick Argue accuses *Zionism* (a national liberation movement) of oppressing and terrorizing all the Palestinians in the disputed territories, now he's tweaking his original version to "the Zionist philosophy",-- presumably meaning Zionism's philosophy, not the particular brand of Zionist philosophy subscribed to by Sharon nor the cluster of brands of Zionist philosophy espoused by various factions making up the government or any one of them. Argue insists on his refusal to realize the differences between the different Zionist philosophies of the parties the Israeli govt. is comprised of. But then again, communists shouldn't be expected to take such nuances into account, for doing so would be too much of a strain on their worldviews. Argue needs to keep his perspective much more narrow to suit his ideological purposes. At any rate, a failure to form educated views and opinions based on such shades of grey rather than through the black-and-white prism often renders that person's views dismissable, which is the case in Argue's last two posts here.

Israel may be oppressing Palestinians due to the necessity of defending Israelis from the Palestinian terror you routinely excuse, justify and defend, but isn't terrorizing Palestinians, and you're well aware of that despite all your propagandizing.

The mendacious drivel -- and Argue is fully aware he's lying, leveling slander and committing unjustified character assassination of Arab people he happens to disagree with -- that Argue's spouting off about the Arab guests hosted in the past on Club Cruz proves he's determined not to surrender his unique private stripe of anti-Arab racism but to reinforce and reaffirm it.
Argue has proven himself a reactionary who doesn't shun anti-Arab racism when it suits his need to dismiss certain people as unrepresentative of the ethnic or natonal group they happen to belong to. Ergo, Argue cannot and should not be considered a real anti-racist progressive.

It is good that an anti-Arab racist does not consider me an anti-racist. The racist "CT" also says there is no terror.

If the routine murder of unarmed children is not terror what is?

If the Sabra and Shatila massacre carried out by Israeli troops and their puppet allies is not terror what is?

If the recent mass murder of innocents and destruction of thousands of homes in Jenin and elsewhere is not terror what is?

As for shades of gray, there are none when it comes to the Israeli government, a government born of the theft of land and the blood of innocents from 1948 to the present.

Equal rights to all nationalities! End billions of dollars in U.S. aid used to terrorize Palestinians! Death to Israel! Forward to a socialist a Democratic Near East!

The Sabra and Shatila massacre
www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1711914.php

You guys can't just come in here, tell one lie after another and not expect to have those who know better challenge you.

1) Israel does not 'routinely murder innocents' or commit 'mass murder of innocents' or 'murder children.' You cannot name one example.

2) No Israeli soldier killed anyone at Sabra and Shatila

3) to condemn Israel for mass murder of innocents, you have to go all the way back to 1982???

4)The Palestinian groups you defend blew up 7 innocent people on Jan 18th, 2005!!

read all about it at: www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3

That is 7 innocent people, blown up by a Palestinian suicide bomber. 1 person was critically injured, 2 seriously, and the rest with moderate to minor injuries. No one was killed, thank God.

What does 'Peace' have to say about this bombing?
Or is she still hot on the trail of some Israeli massacre in 1982 she can dig up and use as evidence of what?

A lot of people died at Sabra and Shatila. They were actually killed because a few days before a group of Palestinians had massacred a bunch of Lebanese Christians --men, women, and children.

And I repeat, NO ISRAELI SOLDIER killed anyone. It was the Lebanese Christian phalanx that did the killing. They told the Israelis they were going into the camps to get the terrorists from the massacres a few days earlier. The Israelis allowed them in.

If you have to go that far back to get that little, and you ignore real violence happening currently, then maybe you have the wrong agenda.
Maybe your hate of Israel has clouded your vision to what is actually occurring right now and by the very people who you have dedicated yourselves to protecting.

Yet he's full of his outright lies, bravado-charged, primitive and utterly ridiculous slogans.

Nowhere can Argue draw proof showing me as an anti-Arab racist because there's none. By contrast, Argue couldn't deny his own occasional anti-Arab racism which he can't help but reprove each and every time the issue of Club Cruz's Arab guests resurfaces.

The demolition of homes in Judea-Samaria has been carried out as a punitive and deterring measure against suicide bombers, driveby shooters, etc. It's not terror.
In mid '02 homes were destroyed in the course of bitter combat against Palestinian militants in Jenin. That's certainly not terror.

Argue's charge against the Israeli government is just to ludicrous to merit a rebuttal.

What a pity Argue doesn't draw the only proper practical conclusion from his conviction that he has been debating "Zionist idiots" and doesn't want to waste more time on it.

Becky Johnson says, "No Free Passes for you guys!!"

So now I guess she is going to institute an Israeli style apartheid system and deny us passes to see our families.

1982 is hardly ancient history on the Israeli government's mass murder of 3,000 innocents. The statute of limitations on crimes against humanity is hardly up in these few short years.

Mass murder in Jenin and elsewhere as well as the routine murder of children is also going on today. I, and others, have proven all of these things in earlier threads.

As for all of her arguments, I, and reality, have already refuted every one of them. She really is extremely stupid. It is too bad that she has such limited mental capacities, I feel a little sorry for her.

Arger appears to belive he'll win the debate if he manages to wear out his opponents by reciting his lies often enough so they'll let him seal the debate by posting same.

First of all, I haven't been on the radio since July 9, 2004, the day I quit Free Radio Santa Cruz. BTW, FRSC has a "no-hate speech" policy, so of course I would never have a racist bigot spew their views on my show. I will however, have people with moderate views on my show... BJ accuses me of having a "completely one-sided presentation" you also wrote, "he never had a Jew on his show unless they were against the State of Israel" but, I actually HAVE had zionists on my show. Pnina Firestone and Stephen Zunes are both zionists who have been guests on Rockin' the Boat.... Here is the mp3 of my show with Firestone if you are interested in hearing a moderate zionist perspective... www.radio4all.net/dl.php/rtb_pnina_firestone.mp3&

As far as interuppting your racist hate speech on Louis LaFortune's show, refer to FRSC's "no-hate speech" policy.

It's also not my fault that Louis has bad talk show ettiquette. He let you babble for half an hour before I made the interrupt, which was done simply because your statements had to be refuted, and I had plans that night. Had I waited for you to finnish, you might have used up the all his airtime. I make no apologies. You got to speak for half an hour and now cry censorshp? WAAAA

Sorry for the bad link above. Here is the Firestone interview:
radio.indymedia.org/uploads/rtb_pnina_firestone.mp3

OK, I guess I've been proven wrong. Go ahead and kill Palestinian children, who am I to put pre-arranged notions of right and wrong on a people who suffered so much 60 years ago.

In my pre-arranged notions I thought that it was wrong to gun down completely innocent and unarmed little girls on their way to school and that those responsible should be punished for their crimes.

But no, the Israeli government only punishes the Israeli refusniks who refuse to carry out such crimes against humanity in the military.

I'll disregard the cranky nonsense Argue wrote, except the above quoted portion one of his sentences.

Note he's now indirectly complaining not about the Zionists but about what he deems the inferior standard of justice adhered to by *the Jewish people itself*. Argue should make his mind up. Does he feel content with being anti-Zionist or does he want to add a certain amount of antisemitism to his belief system? Wat's the deal here, is he admitting his error in return for making antisemitic remarks? No, Argue, you can't do both and also manage to fool people into thinking you're a genuinie anti-racist.

The Zionists pretend to speak for the Jews and justify their crimes against Palestinians by what was done to Jews 60 years ago. This is merely what I was referring to you racist pig.

I don't think that most Jews support the murder of innocent Palestinian children.

CT: "those children are either combatants or collateral damage that occurs while others are targetted [sic]."

Observation: “Another Zionist Lie�

CT, “Prove it, Einstein.�

Proof is about as useful with you Zionists as gasoline is in putting out a fire. If an anti-racist asks me to prove it I will. I am not going to waste my time proving murder and injustice to people who believe that the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian.

Argue:
"The Zionists...justify their crimes against Palestinians by what was done to Jews 60 years ago."

This is invariably untrue. I hear this claim mostly from rabid anti-Zionist professional hatemongers like you.

Don't hide behind what you believe "the Zionists" pretend. Either your beef is with the Jewish people or with the system that hands down rulings on these matters, namely the Israeli military courts. If you can't stand by your implied complaint about what you consider the inferior justice standard employed by the Jewish people, then kindly refrain from making such complaints.

Regardless, I don't see the exchange you're referring to on this thread. Please don't clutter up this thread with material from other threads.

There is nothing wrong with occasionally using corporate sources in articles. The problem is posting their crap without thought or analysis.

The racist so-called "Critical Thinker" complains that the human rights activists have no corporate sources. Yet this is completely false. If you take my piece on the Sabra and Shatila you will find several including: Ha’aretz, Time Magazine, Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post, and Der Spiegel.

Sometimes, however, the left does not have corporate sources because with corporate news “all that is fit to print� often does not include the truth. In those cases we have to rely on our own investigations of the facts. This is not a problem for right wingers like so-called “critical thinker�. He has countless corporate sources to mould his brain and spit back insultingly at people who are actually thinking critically.

We should not allow the right to inundate us with corporate crap that is otherwise easily accessible and that they have put no work into. This site is called Indy Media not Corporate Media.

Example of sources:

Radical Zionist and Dafka (Hebrew for “in your face�) member Becky Johnson wrote:

Steve, so you have to go all the way back to 1982 to find a massacre to pin on the Israelis. And you have to fudge the facts to make even THAT work. They were not "innocent Palestinians" since a day or two before a group of them went into a Lebanese camp and murdered 65 men, women, and children. When the Lebanese Phalanx came up the road to the camp where the murderers were hiding, Ariel Sharon let them through. It was the Lebanese army that killed the Palestinians. Not a single IDF soldier killed anyone. Sharon was later disciplined by his own govt. who ruled that he should have known what the Lebanese were about to do and he should have tried to stop them.



********************
Steven Argue responds on responds On Sabra and Shatila

Becky Johnson seems to think that the Sabra and Shatila massacre is not worth discussing because 1982 is supposedly ancient history. 1982 is hardly beyond the statute of limitations for crimes against humanity. I’m sure you don’t have the same attitude towards Nazi butchers of the Third Reich. While I could, and have, written about the most recent crimes of the Israeli government in Jenin and elsewhere, the Sabra and Shatila massacre is still worth talking about since the current crimes are only a continuation of the past. Likewise, Sharon’s guilt in the Sabra Shatila massacre is worth mentioning.

Becky Johnson shows here extreme ignorance by claiming that this massacre was carried out by the Lebanese government. The Lebanese government had nothing to do with it. The massacre was carried out both by the Israeli military under the command of Sharon and by Israel's allies in Lebanon, the Christian Phalangists.

With the testimony Mrs. Sersawi in the Belgium appeals court on the Israeli government’s war crimes, which I’ve posted twice, I've provided Becky Johnson with clear evidence of the involvement of both the Israeli government and Lebanese Christian Phalangists in this mass murder of unarmed civilians, many that had been slaughtered after being taken prisoner by Israel. Among the dead was Mrs. Sersawi’s husband. Yet you Becky have chosen to ignore this evidence I have provided you to absurdly claim that this mass murder was only the killing of combatants and that it was the work of the Lebanese government.

I will post Mrs. Sersawi’s testimony here once again at the end of this writing.

Prior to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon both Ariel Sharon and Bashir Gemayel had declared that they would create a panic amongst Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon that would reduce the numbers living there from 500,000 to 50,000. The Sabra and Shatila massacre was part of this stated goal of ethnic cleansing.

Ha’aretz reported on September 26, 1982: “A long-term objective aimed at the expulsion of the whole Palestinian population of Lebanon beginning with Beirut. The purpose was to create a panic to convince [sic] all the Palestinians of Lebanon that they were no longer safe in that country.�

As such the people of Sabra and Shatila facing the Zionist slaughter of innocents, were to meet the same fate as the Palestinian towns of Dueima, Kibya, Kfar Qasim, and Deir Yassin from 1947 to 1950.

As Time Magazine admitted on October 4th, 1982, “On several occasions Gemayel told Israeli officials he would raze the camps and flatten them into tennis courts. This fits in with Israeli thinking. The Christian militia forces that were known to have gone into the camps were trained by the Israelis.�

Major Saqr of the Phalangist Militia bragged after the massacre, “The only way you will find out how many Palestinians we killed is if they ever build a subway under Beirut ... A good massacre or two will drive the Palestinians out of Beirut and Lebanon once and for all.� (Jonathan Randal of the Washington Post).

Yet the massacre was not just carried out by these murderous Phalangist militia trained and allied with Israel, Israeli forces were also directly involved.

On February 14, 1983 Der Spiegel carried an interview with one of the killers at Sabra and Shatila, who described direct Israeli participation along side his own. The article, entitled “Each of You Is An Avenger�, is a first person account of crimes against humanity:

“We met in the Schahrur wadi, in the valley of the nightingales Southeast of Beirut. It was Wednesday, the fifteenth of September ... We were approximately three hundred men from East Beirut, South Lebanon and the Akkar Mountains in the north ... I belonged to the Tiger Militia of ex-President Camile Chamoun.

“Phalange officers summoned us and brought us to the meeting place. They told us that they needed us for a “special action� ... “You are the agents of good,� the officers told us repeatedly. “Each of you is an avenger.� ...

“Then a good dozen Israelis in green uniforms without indication of rank came along. They had playing cards with them and spoke Arabic well, except that like all Jews they pronounced the hard “h� as “ch.� They were talking about the Palestinian camps Sabra and Shatila ... it was clear to us what we were to do, and we were looking forward to it.

“We had to swear an oath never to divulge anything about our action. At about 10 p.m. we climbed into an American army truck that the Israelis had given over to us. We parked the vehicle near the airport tower. There, immediately next to the Israeli positions, several such trucks were already parked.

“Some Israelis in Phalange uniforms were with the Party. “The Israeli friends who accompany you,� our officers told us “... will make your work easier.� They directed us not to make use of our firearms, if at all possible. “Everything must proceed noiselessly.� ... We saw other comrades. They had to do their work with bayonets and knives. Bloody corpses were lying in the alleys. The half-asleep women and children who cried out for help put our whole plan in danger, alarming the entire camp.

“Now I saw once again the Israelis who had been at our secret meeting. One signaled us to move back to areas of the camp entrance. The Israelis opened up with all their guns. The Israelis helped us with floodlights.

“There were shocking scenes that showed what the Palestinians were good for. A few, including women, had taken shelter in a small alley, behind some donkeys. Unfortunately we had to shoot down these poor animals to finish off the Palestinians behind them. It got to me when the animals cried out in pain. It was gruesome.

“A comrade entered a house full of women and children. The Palestinians screamed and threw their gas stoves on the ground. We sent the hard-hearted rabble to hell.

“At about four in the morning my squad went back to the truck. When there was morning light we went back into the camp. We went past bodies, stumbled over bodies, shot and stabbed all eyewitnesses. Killing others was easy once you have done it a few times.

“Now came the Israeli Army bulldozers. “Plow everything under the ground. Don’t let any witnesses stay alive.� But despite our efforts, the area was still teeming with people. They ran about and caused awful confusion. The order to “plow them under� demanded too much.

“It became clear that the pretty plan had failed. Thousands had escaped us. Far too many Palestinians are still alive. Everywhere now people are talking about a massacre and feeling sorry for the Palestinians. Who appreciates the hardships that we took upon ourselves ... Just think. I fought for twenty-four hours in Shatila without food or drink.�

Many of the mass graves were never opened, but over 3,000 people were murdered at Sabra and Shatila.

In addition to the scenes described above, Palestinians were also rounded up and systematically slaughtered in the thousands by Israeli troops in a Lebanese stadium.

As survivor Mrs. Sersawi testified in a Belgium appeals court on the Israeli governments war crimes, "The Lebanese forces militia [Phalangists] had taken us from our homes and marched us up to the entrance of the camp where a large hole had been dug in the earth. The men were told to get into it. Then the militiamen shot a Palestinian. The women and children climbed over bodies to get to this spot, but we were truly shocked by seeing this man killed in front of us and there was a roar of shouting and screams from the women. That's when we heard the Israelis on a loudspeaker shouting, 'give us your men.' We thought, 'thank God, they will save us.'

"We were told to walk up the road to the Kuwaiti Embassy, the women and children in front, the men behind. We had been separated. There were Phalangist Militiamen and Israeli soldiers walking alongside us. I could still see Hassan (her husband with whom she was 3 months pregnant) and Faraj (her brother-in-law). It was like a parade. There were several hundred of us. When we got to Cite Sportif, the Israelis put us women in a big concrete room and the men were taken to another side of the stadium. There were a lot of men from the camp and I could no longer see my husband. The Israelis went around saying 'Sit, sit.' It was 11 AM. An hour later we were told to leave. But we stood outside amid the Israeli soldiers, waiting for our men.

"Some men came out, none of them younger than 40, and they told us to be patient, that hundreds of men were still inside. Then about 4 PM an Israeli officer came out. He was wearing dark glasses and said in Arabic: 'What are you waiting for?' He said there was nobody left, that everyone had gone. There were Israeli trucks moving out with tarpaulin over them. We couldn't see inside. And there were jeeps and tanks and a bulldozer making a lot of noise. We stayed there as it got dark and the Israelis appeared to be leaving and we were very nervous. But when the Israelis had moved away, we went inside. And there was no one there. Nobody. I had been only three years married. I never saw my husband again."


The Zionists pretend to speak for the Jews and justify their crimes against Palestinians by what was done to Jews 60 years ago. This is merely what I was referring to you racist pig.

I don't think that most Jews support the murder of innocent Palestinian children.

I made no such complaint.
You're a relentless human lying machine and a revulting individual. I almost want to puke at due to the vile quality of all the lies you continually shit out and the manner you do it. You also make a litany of unfounded assumptions about me when you have little idea at all what you're talking.

You didn't apply any analysis or thought or investigation of the facts to the update I posted about the el-Hams incident to speak of. Your response to the update couldn't be further from the critical thinking you're extolling. All you did was rant about not being able to trust Thuh Ziiiionists because they're total racists to you.

The editors have hidden the update article I posted, so what the hell are you whining about now, sleazeball? A normal person would consider that a victory.

As to the rest of your recycled garbage, I hazard a guess I'm far from alone in passing over it. I'm calling it a day now.

So called "Critical Thinker" is lying once again.

Fuck these stinking pinko commie greasy terrorist lovers. The CIA should be rounding up these pinkos and applying electrical wires to their genitals.

If they want to talk like Osama they should die like Osama.

Here in Israel I am happy to say Israel is alive and well despite the fucking Palestinians. All we need to do is shoot a few more homicide bomber brats, level more of their houses, destroy more olive groves, and build more fences, and carpet bomb Gaza.

Hmmmm...

I guess like LBJ so-called "Common Sense" sees the light at the end of the tunnel. And what light? Full-scale genocide and population transfer. This is the racist logic of Zionism.

For a more enlightened view from Israel people can read:

Imperialism gets the man they wanted: but can Abbas deliver?
by Yossi Schwartz in Jerusalem
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/15206/index.php

Vinny wrote: "As far as interrupting your racist hate speech on Louis LaFortune's show, refer to FRSC's "no-hate speech" policy."

What a crock!!
If you were interrupting me because of my 'hate speech' why did you tell Louis and the FRSC audience that you had to leave for work and just couldn't wait to get on the air? Were you just being 'nice' to me? Gee, that doesn't seem likely since your only contribution was to refute my argument before I had the chance to make it.

You lied then. And you are lying now.

At least you admit you used an operater-interrupt to cut off my comments. I believe I was explaining why the occupation, in my opinion, is not illegal because UN resolution 242's exact language and the facts on the ground at the time allowed Israel to legally occupy the disputed territories until a peaceful settlement could be reached by all parties.

Hate speech? I don't think so. If you want an unbiased view (obviously NOT Vinny's) ask Louis Lafortune. He's in the book. I trust HE will give you an honest answer.

Oh, and saying that the pro-Israel view is represented by Stephen Zunes is a real scream!! That nutcase is steeped in anti-Israel and RCNV propaganda. He DOES know a lot about the mideast though, I'll grant him that. I didn't recognise the other person you used as an example. Thanks for the link. I'll try and listen to it.

I don't know if "Common Sense" is real, but here is a website of Zionists that think just him.

Rabbi Meir Kahane... The Arabs MUST Go!
www.masada2000.org/kahane.html

Actually Sharon is in reality carrying out these policies at present.

"In a genuinely "JEWISH State," how can an Arab be an equal when that State has an Independence Day celebrating his defeat. Its flag isn't that of its people. He isn't trusted to serve in the army. His cousin born in Haifa and fled during the 1948 War of Independence cannot return... yet any Jew who never lived there before is welcomed with open arms. In short, Israel is his enemy's country, not his. So how can an Arab truly be a loyal citizen in a Jewish State? Simply, they cannot... and they must go!"

Yo, that sounds just like *YOU*, non-Critical Thinkifier!!

I'm waiting for you to recycle your shit about Benny Morris! --Even though I totally *DEMOLISHED* you and turned you into my *BITCH* on your false Benny Morris claims!!

Ha-Ha-Ha!!


______________________________________________________________________________

And while I'm here:

Bullshit Becky: "No Israeli soldier killed anyone at Sabra and Shatila."

And no Hitler ever personally killed any Jews.

You quoted from the first edition of his book, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949. I was relying on the updated edition published a year ago entitled The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited. See www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521009677/qid=1107781347/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5319497-0595867.

So you didn't whop my ass other than in your perpetually hallucinating and disturbed mind.

Note how he was left with no other recourse except to say in response to my previous post above "So called "Critical Thinker" is lying once again.". Then he proceeds to lie that Sharon is carrying out the late Meir Kahane's political program of expelling all the Arabs from Israel.

Apparently Argue's parents never punished him whenever he was found to be luing to them, so he presumably carried on into adulthood believing that lying is a legitimate means to apply just about in every sphere of his life.

The Zionists continue to deny the reality of Sabra and Shatila

On the question of Sabra and Shatila I have already shown how Israeli troops participated directly and indirectly in the slaughter of 3,000 innocents.

The Sabra and Shatila massacre
www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1711914.php

The war, humiliation, and economic strangulation presently being carried out by Sharon is meant to bring about further forced population transfers. Meir Kahane may have been slightly more honest in presenting his genocidal plans, but both are racist butchers, and by starting this war Sharon is moving ahead in actuality with the a plan Meir Kahane only dreamed of.

Palestinians do not have the right to freely travel. Reminiscent of chattel slavery, Palestinian families are often separated by Israeli officials who commonly do not grant necessary permits for Palestinians to enter neighborhoods or towns where wives, husbands, or children live. In contrast the Hebrew population has full rights to travel.

Palestinians often do not have the right to keep their own homes, which are often confiscated or bulldozed. The bulldozing of houses is a common punishment of families whose children are accused of throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. Recently in Jenin houses were bulldozed with people inside, an act that besides killing people also made an estimated 4,000 people homeless.

Palestinians do not have the right to freedom of speech and regularly face arrest, torture, and execution for their political views. Even Hebrew speakers who support rights for Palestinians or an end to Israeli wars have, at times, had their press shut down by the Israeli government or had their demonstrations attacked and beaten by Israeli soldiers.

Although the Israeli government claims that Palestinians have the right to own property, this is a lie. Ever since 1948 Palestinians in Israel do not have the right to own land, because their land is often confiscated by force for Hebrew settlement and agriculture. Water rights have been systematically cut off and diverted away from Palestinian lands and given to stolen Hebrew owned lands. Palestinian laborers are then denied by law the right to work the Hebrew owned agricultural lands, although they are sometimes illegally employed as cheap labor with no labor rights.

The humiliating conditions of the Palestinian people were recently observed by former anti-Apartheid fighter Archbishop Desmond Tutu who wrote: "I have been very deeply distressed by my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young police officers prevented us from moving about.

"On my visit to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and homes?

"I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: 'Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli Jews.'

"My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment

In the 1940s Jews were only one third of the population of Palestine. The Arab majority had not yet been driven from their land. After independence from the Britain in 1948 the Zionist state began a massive expropriation of Palestinian land that has not ended. Becky Johnson's claim that, "the Arabs and Muslims who did not flee in 1948, but stayed in Israel have full citizenship, have freedom to practice their religion, own property, vote, have representation in the Knesset, and compose 18% of the population" is so utterly untrue as to defy common sense. Besides defying all facts, I ask why most of an entire people would voluntarily flee the land in which they had built flourishing towns, a rich agriculture, and a vibrant cultural life with nowhere else to go? The short answer is that they did not flee voluntarily. They had met the "Jewish bayonets" of Zionist Jabotinsky's "Iron Wall". To deny this fact comes in on the same level as those who deny the Holocaust of Europe.

Since 1966 the Arabs within Israel proper are no longer under military rule. You drew propaganda from anti-Israel sites that portray Israeli Arabs' present situation in the terms of the 1949-1966 period.

All you do is repost your recycled propaganda lies for the umpteenth time. Do you get paid to lie so often, or is this merely your hobby?

So-called critical thinker wants us to differentiate between the different levels of oppression dished out by the Zionist government against the Palestinian people in different localities while pretending there is such a thing as Israel proper and Israel improper.

The Israeli Foreign Minister, who said openly that the new Palestinian leader should begin to fight “terrorism immediately�. By this he meant that any armed resistance to the Israeli occupation and endless killing of Palestinians should be crushed.

The similarity of the situations facing the people in Israel/Palestine and Iraq is becoming more and more clear to the suffering masses. The role of the rulers of the Arab states in support of the US is being exposed on a daily basis. From this the working class and poor will be able to draw the lesson that the road to be taken is not the road in service of the imperialist order, whose policies are those based on robbery and death, but the road that leads to the foundation of the Socialist Federation of the Middle East.

Oh, the other thing is that it's soooo obvious that Kaplan knows we are non-violent. Do you think he would dress up like inspector clouseau and infiltrate Islamic Jihad?