The audio segment involving testimony re: the assault on Sasha from April 18th's Police Mini-Abu Ghraib-iana will be played at 9:30 AM Sunday tomorrow (April 24th) on Free Radio 101.1 FM (www.freakradio.org). It'll be archived at www.huffsantacruz.org . Sorry for any confusion

I'm sorry, Robert, but comparing what happened to these kids with the Abu Ghraib torture is beyond reproach. You are wrong to devalue the level of brutality, and dehumanization the US troops have shown the Iraqis, by comparing it to the pain compliance holds UC Police used on the students.

As one of those in lockdown on April 18, I agree with V-man. Robert's comment diminishes the Iraqis' plight and hyperinflates our own, thereby weakening our claims of injustice. Please, choose your words with caution.

It's certainly true that the sustained use of torture (Gonzalez and Bush's views notwithstanding) while imprisoning thousands of people is quite different from the use of pain compliance holds. Nonetheless, a methodical sustained use of pain over the course of two hours to accomplish an unconstitutional objective (dispersing a peaceful assembly) has some similarities.

I do not mean to diminish the truly horrendous situation at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo (or, to a lesser extent, perhaps even in certain nearby jails).

But I think drawing connections like this are also helpful in bringing home the point that the climate of violence and repression has apparently become more standardized, even as regards affluent upper-middle-class white students at a major university engaging in obvious peaceful protest, which in no way interfered with anyone else's rights.

Locally in Santa Cruz, we need to understand the outrageous behavior of the police. This is local abuse--which, in theory, we should be able to address more directly, and which impacts people we know. To call it "mini-Abu Ghrab-iana" is to use a kind of "horror" shorthand, which, I agree, is poetic license. But it makes the point that a form of torture is being used.

Shoot the messenger, Vinny, if you must (again), but let's amplify the message. After all, wasn't it was you, who advised me that Evelith was the cop with the loose baton?

Anyway, good work on the reporting.

Robert wrote: "I do not mean to diminish the truly horrendous situation at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.."

But you did. You just want to "shock and awe" the SC IMC readers with these infantile comparisons. Please desist.

Robert wrote: "Shoot the messenger, Vinny, if you must (again), but let's amplify the message."

Yes, it is important that the UC administrators used violence to achieve thier goals, but I maintain, that part of the story is not lost on anyone. However, many have questioned out loud, "what's the point of tent U?"

So then, Robert, what, exactly is the message? All you can see is the police violence, which I view as a sidebar distraction to the *real* story.

IMHO, the message is that the UC pays its workers shit wages. Tuition is going up, while class sizes also expand, and courses like journalism, are being dumped in favor military research. I think I DID amplify that message, Robert.

What have you done, sycophant? Aside from latching onto, *yet another protest* you had nothing to do with organizing, and try to steer it? Nothing.

Officer Eveleth has recently worked with the N.E.T. (Neighborhood Enforcement Team) SCPD undercover prostitution/drug stings ect usually bustin kids for drinkin behind the Vets Hall the N.E.Team has also infiltrated demonstrations/marches undercover I have pics of Sgt Clark in tie die(gun bulging) waving a peace sign holding a candle in an affrimitave action march downtown, the NETeam sometimes drives a green jeep cherokee, recently
doing protustion stings in lower ocean, I thought
SCPD was not involved in demonstration, anyone can
file a complaint to City of SC to at least document abuse..

For those interested in more "infantile sycophancy," check out www.huffsantacruz.org for the April 24th Bathrobespierre's show.

The beginning of the 3 1/2 hour show has the rest of my April 18th tape (not as clear as it might be--my apologies). I again suggest downloading so you can skip ahead. Immediately after that segment, there is a 45 minute interview with Mayor Mike Rotkin he supports the SCPD (though professing ignorance about the specifics).

About two hours into the show is an interview with Will Parrish, which addresses some of the issues that divide Vinny and me.

In response to Vinny's denunciation, I can only remind him that not only was I part of the five-hour long process of deciding to remain on April 18, but I was one of the delegates appointed to the final circle.

I believe I had a legitimate concern, involved in the decision-making that day and involved heavily in the reporting for days before and after.

Even had I not been a part of the formal process that day or a FRSC broadcaster who has spent over a dozen hours on this project, it would have been important to identify issues I find of importance and talk about them. Even if they push Vinny's buttons.

There obviously was a grabbag of issues, but for me, a key issue was the wonderful victory that TUSCers won on April 18. It made the subsequent surrender as outrageous and tragic to me as the De Anza tenant leaders sellout on Rent Control in the Fall of 2003, when the community had given the tenants the signatures they need to save rent control (both for De Anza and Clearview Court)

[Use the search function on indymedia to check out this issue]

I'm glad that both Viny and I were at Tent U on April 18th. Both of us did lots of reporting on the protest. At some personal risk to both of us--both as recognizable media and activists. Kudos to all the supporters up there who risked blows from the police, sanctions from the university, and a smearjob in the press.

I'm glad indymedia provides a forum for us to exchange views--with whatever heat. I think that's far superior to capricious censorship or some central party line.

Check out Rotkin's interview. I think readers will find it interesting. (www.huffsantacruz.org
then Bathrobespierre's Broadsides then the 4-24 show, then download and spin 1/2 hour ahead).

one thing I hate about liberal and progressive politic is the ability to get lost over processing crap. this debate on abu ghraib vs mini abu is like when I used to attend people of color conferences and listen to african americans vs. native americans vs. japanese americans vs. chicanos debate which was worse, slavery, genocide, internment or economic servitude, etc, etc. can we agree it is all part of the same disease and it sucked? and can we move on from mental masturbation and back to action? It seems that most of the low people doing the actual evil stuff at abu were in real life (when not in iraq)penal officers or cops. normally they got to torture people in US jails and on the streets of our nation. Once their skills were finely honed they made excellent employees for the army as international torturers. These people were supervised by mid level military and CIA officers who came up with acceptible methods of torture and above that are the higher ups like cheney, bush, and their legal advisors who ensured that whatever happened at abu ghraib wouldn't affect the presidency and wouldn't "legally" be defined as torture. Now I'm not saying that this was abu ghraib, but for people who wonder how good or normal people end up doing or authorizing bad things, just look to this mini event at UCSC as an example. you have the chancellor probably taking her cues or marching orders from above. You have UC legal officials warning students prior to the event that many activities associated with tent U could be "actionable" (see this weeks metroactive news) and they could be thrown out of the university for participating. You have mid level UC employees, who are the policy enforcers for the chancellor. Just look to the threads detailing gail heit's and jean marie scotts letters warning students about policy violations of tent U. just look to photos showing these women happily complying with enforcing UC policy even if it meant painful arrests of students. and look at see how dutiful the police were in their efforts to keep the barbarians at the gates of UCSC. Ward Churchill wrote an interesting essay, asking about whether or not the twin towers were a legitimate target of terrorists. No Ward wasn't advocating terror, but he dared asked the question about what level of responsibilty do people in suits have for their everyday seeminly legal and legitimate business actions that result in starvation, poverty, enviornmental destruction. I don't think any UCSC staff member is inherently evil (except maybe the parking police ; ) but I want to point out that once again the cops will likely get more bad press then the folks in suits will. And after all, who is it who is actually legitimizing the violence against students under the guise of maintaining the law.

The SCPD Neighborhood Enforcement Team was officially disbanded due to budget cuts in 2003. However, there is a new push to create something like it again.

Oppression and Violence against Any (?) and All (?) Peaceful Dissenting Humans is wrong. Period! Wrong! Unacceptable! It is not my job to suggest how to deal with 'dissent in the streets' my only job is to witness any, and document any, Violations of Civil Rights or Abuse of Power and to make sure IF VIOLENCE is being used "BY ANY MEANS" to Ring the Liberty Bell Loud and Long.

Now justify as much as you want, as to why the Tent Group deserved the force that was documented being exerted on them, the fact that not-one-single-person-was-fighting-back or responding-with-violence-in-any-way, shows the Moral Problem we have here. Once again ...it’s not my job to find a way to achieve the Law and Order Criteria. (LOC)
It is my job to make sure no one hurts another human being and I will be damned if I sit back and watch this happen to any PEACEFUL group no matter what their cause is or why they are protesting (?) One thing for sure there better not be any misconduct or violent behavior NONE (none! no excuses Mr. Peace Man) or the whole world will here my SCREAM. I suggest they get back to the Drawing Board and come back as Sane Adults and maybe some stupid minds can work out a %^$*$#$%% agreement instead of hurting and adminstering some kid of jack booted neck holds.
Damn 3rd Grade Neocon~Attitude Get A Clue

Many of the same individual cops and prison guards that torture and kill in America are the same as those at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and elsewhere in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The repression used by the government against those rising up against the policies of the government and administrations of institutions like UCSC is indeed an important continuum of the same story. If the story is not told, the government gets away with the repression and carries it out all the more.

Minus a little hyperbole, Robert has done us all a favor. Good work.

If The NET team is disbanded who ran the prostitution sting in the lower ocean last week?? maybe there offical name may not exist but the same work/officers continue. they dont target downtown as much as they used to.