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LOCAL Announcement :: Civil & Human Rights : Peace & War

Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

Hedy Epstein: The question of Israel/Palestine

Thursday, October 21
8:00 p.m.
Kresge Town Hall
UC Santa Cruz
Hedy Epstein, a survivor of the Holocaust at the age of 15 (when she lost both her parents), will describe her experiences during nazi Germany and how those experiences led her to a lifetime of fighting for justice. Recently returned from Israel/Palestine, she will talk about the reality on the ground and her experiences as a Jewish woman fighting against the occupation. Hedy is the founder of Women in Black in St. Louis, MI and of the Hugo and Ella Wachengeimer Education Foundation for Palestinian and Israeli Children. She is currently touring the West Coast of the U.S.

Sponsored by Jews for Justice and UCSC's Women's
Studies Department.

Questions? Contact Kati at KTJG9 (at) aol.com
or Josh at josh_lizard (at) yahoo.com/831.295.2139

More information on Hedy Epstein can be found at:
www.hedyepstein.com
 
 


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Comments

The Israel Peace Movement and the Battered Wife Syndrome

It is especially saddening when a Jewish holocaust survivor joins in the campaign to villify Israel and to uncritically support the Palestinian cause. I've wondered often on people who seem to be turning against their own people, and engaged in distorting the record, as Women in Black does routinely.

My latest theory is to chalk it up to the "Battered Wife Syndrome" where the 20% or so Israeli "peace" movement have convinced themselves that "If only...." they do something, the violence directed against them will stop.

As the battered wife tries to psychologically regain control of a situation where she is being repeatedly battered by thinking "If only I keep the house cleaner" or "if only I don't state my opinions out loud so much " THEN the violence will stop.

The Israeli peace movement wants peace so badly, they engage in magical thinking such as "If only we dismantle the settlements on the West Bank" or "If only we retreat to the 1967 borders..." then there will be peace.

But just, as with a wife-batterer, the victim can only find ways to defend themselves from the violence by using legal means, and by the threat of force, sanctions, or repercussions coming from the international community.

Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish State. The Jews who survived the holocaust have lived to rebuild the Jewish State on their ancient homeland. When Israel is recognized by their neighbors and their borders respected, then there will be peace, and not a day earlier.
 

These comments R some f'cked up BS

in this corner we got a white american who's never been to the middle east, never had members of her family killed for being jews, but HAS been to therapy and projects her experience (sic) onto the rest of the world.

...in ths corner we got a NUTcase. If the 2cd comment is deleted for being f'cked up... it refers to how great the nazis were.
 

What about Palestine recognition by neighbors?

Thanks again Becky for the ignorant insight oh poor Israel with all those U.S. dollars, Atomic bombs, Catapiller home demolishers, Prisons and the Great wall of Aparthied. Its tuff being the neghiborhood bully. Its kinda strange that someone who is a so called "homless advocate"(Becky Johnson) turn a blind eye to the all the Palestinians made homless or killed by the violence of the Israel that is supported and financed by the same government that she rails against for the sake of the American homless. Rant on blindly Becky!
 

Re: Palestinians made homless ?

If the Palestinian people where to demand that the terrorists stop killing children, would the rest of the world consider them to be more civilized?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

October 4, 2003 Haifa 19 killed, 60 wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide
bombing in restaurant owned by Jews and Arabs
August 19, 2003 Jerusalem 22 killed, 135 wounded Hamas Suicide bombing
on a bus.

January 5, 2003 Tel Aviv 23 killed, 108 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Two suicide bombers in an immigrant neighborhood

June 5, 2002 Megiddo 17 killed, 38 injured Islamic Jihad Car bomb
next to bus

May 27, 2002 Petah Tikvah 2 killed, 37 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide bomb in shopping mall

May 22, 2002 Rishon Lezion 2 killed, 40 wounded Suicide bomb on
pedestrian mall

May 19, 2002 Netanya 3 killed, 59 injured Hamas and the PFLP Suicide
bomb in market

May 7, 2002 Rishon Lezion 16 killed, 55 injured Hamas Suicide bomb
in pool hall

Apr 12, 2002 Jerusalem 6 killed, 104 injured Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide bomb in Mahane Yehuda market

Apr 10, 2002 Kibbutz Yagur 8 killed, 22 injured Hamas Suicide
bombing on bus

March 31, 2002 Haifa 14 Killed, 40 Wounded Hamas Suicide bombing at
restaurant

March 29, 2002 Jerusalem 2 killed, 28 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide bombing at supermarket in Kiryat Yovel

March 27, 2002 Netanya 22 killed, 140 Wounded Hamas Suicide bombing
at Passover seder at Park Hotel

March 21, 2002 Jerusalem 3 killed, 86 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide bombing downtown

March 20, 2002 Afula 7 killed, 30 wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide bombing on bus

March 14, 2002 Karni-Netzarim road 3 Killed, 2 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa
Martyrs Brigade Remote Control Mine

March 12, 2002 near Kibbutz Matzuva 6 Killed, 7 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa
Martyrs Brigade Gunmen Ambush Vehicles

March 12, 2002 Kiryat Sefer checkpoint 1 Killed, 1 Wounded Shooting
Attack

March 11, 2002 Ashdod 1 Wounded Gunman Opens Fire at Bar Mitzvah

March 10, 2002 Netzarim 1 Killed Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade
Shooting Attack

March 9, 2002 Jerusalem 11 Killed, 54 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber at
Cafe

March 9, 2002 Netanya 2 Killed, 50 Wounded Fatah al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade 2 Gunmen Open Fire on a Promenade

March 7, 2002 Atzmona 5 Killed, 23 Wounded Terrorist Opens Fire and
Throws Grenades

March 7, 2002 Ariel 6+ Wounded Suicide Bomber in Hotel Lobby

March 5, 2002 Sderot 1 Baby Wounded Kassam Rocket

March 5, 2002 Afula 1 Killed, 10 Wounded Suicide Bomber on Bus

March 5, 2002 Tel Aviv 3 Killed, 35+ Wounded Gunman Opens Fire at
Restaurants

March 5, 2002 outside Bethlehem 1 Killed, 1 Wounded Gunman Ambushes
Vehicle

March 2, 2002 Jerusalem 10 Killed, 50+ Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Suicide Bomber outside Synagogue

February 27, 2002 West Bank 3 Wounded Fatah Female Suicide Bomber

February 25, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed, 8 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Gunman Opens Fire at a Bus Stop

February 25, 2002 Gush Etzion 1 Killed, 1 Pregnant Woman Wounded Fatah
Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade Gunmen Open Fire on a Car

February 22, 2002 Efrat 1 Wounded Suicide Bomber in Supermarket

February 22, 2002 North of Jerusalem 1 Killed Fatah Drive-by Shooting

February 19, 2002 En Arik 6 Killed, 1 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Gunmen Open Fire at Soldiers

February 18, 2002 Gush Katif 3 Killed, 4 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa
Martyrs Brigade Gunfire and Bombs at Cars

February 18, 2002 near Jerusalem 1 Killed, 1 Injured Fatah Al-Aksa
Martyrs Brigade Car Bomb

February 16, 2002 Karnei Shomron 2 Killed, 27 Wounded Popular Front
for the Liberation of Palestine Suicide Bomber at Crowded Shopping
Mall

February 14, 2002 Gaza 3 Killed, 4 Wounded Mine Placed Under Tank

February 10, 2002 Be'er Sheva 2 Killed, 4 Wounded Hamas Drive-by
Shooting

February 8, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed 4 Teenagers with Knives

February 6, 2002 Moshav Hamra 2 Killed, 5 Wounded Hamas Gunmen
Infiltrates Moshav

January 30, 2002 Taiba 2 Wounded Fatah Suicide Bomber

January 27, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Killed, 150+ Wounded Fatah Female Suicide
Bomber

January 25, 2002 Tel Aviv 24 Wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide Bomber at
Crowded Pedestrian Shopping Mall

January 22, 2002 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 40 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Guman Opens Fire on Crowd

January 17, 2002 Hadera 6 Killed, 35 Wounded Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs
Brigade Gunman Opens Fire at Bat Mitzvah Celebration

January 15, 2002 Beit Jala 1 Killed Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade
American Kidnapped and Murdered

January 9, 2002 Kerem Shalom 4 Killed, 2 Wounded Hamas Gunfire and
Expolsives

December 12, 2001 Emmanuel 10 Killed, 30 Wounded Fatah & Hamas Bomb
and Gunfire Attack on Bus

December 9, 2001 Haifa 31 Wounded Suicide Bomber

December 2, 2001 Haifa 15 Killed, 46 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber on
Bus

December 1, 2001 Jerusalem 10 Killed, 188+ Wounded Hamas 2 Suicide
Bombers and a Car Bomb in a Pedestrian Mall

November 29, 2001 near Hadera 3 Killed, 9 Wounded Islamic Jihad &
Fatah Suicide Bomber on Bus

November, 27, 2001 Afula 2 Killed, Dozens Wounded Islamic Jihad &
Fatah Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade 2 Gunmen Opened Fire on Crowd near the
Central Bus Station

November, 27, 2001 Gush Katif 1 Killed, 3 Wounded Hamas Grenades and
Gunfire

November 26, 2001 Erez Checkpoint 2 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber

November 24, 2001 Kfar Darom 1 Killed Hamas Morter Shell Landed on a
Soccer Field

November 4, 2001 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 50+ Wounded Islamic Jihad Gunman

October 28, 2001 Hadera 4 Killed, 40 Wounded Gunman

October 28, 2001 near Kibbutz Metzer 1 Killed Tanzim Drive-By
Shooting

October 17, 2001 Jerusalem Israeli Tourism Minister Rehavam Ze'evi
Assasinated Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Gunmen in
Hotel

October 7, 2001 Beit She'an Valley 1 Killed Suicide Bomber

October 4, 2001 Afula 3 Killed, 16 Wounded Gunman Opens Fire on
Crowd

October 1, 2001 Jerusalem Several Wounded Car Bomb

September 9, 2001 Nahariya 3 Killed, 90 Wounded Hamas 1st
Israeli-Arab Suicide Bomber, at Train Station

September 9, 2001 West Bank 2 Killed, 4 Wounded Gunmen

September 4, 2001 Jerusalem 20 Wounded Suicide Bomber disguised as
Orthodox Jew

September 3, 2001 Jerusalem 3 Wounded Series of Car Bombs

August 12, 2001 Kiryat Motzkin 21 Wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide Bomber
at Cafe

August 9, 2001 Jerusalem 15 Killed, 130+ Wounded Islamic Jihad & Hamas
Suicide Bomber at Pizzaria

July 16, 2001 Binyamina 2 Killed, 11 Wounded Islamic Jihad Suicide
Bomber at Bus Stop

June 22, 2001 Dugit 2 Killed Hamas Suicide Bomber

June 1, 2001 Tel Aviv 21 Killed, 120 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber at
Disco

May 30, 2001 Netanya 8 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb outside School

May 27, 2001 Jerusalem 30 Wounded Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine & Islamic Jihad 2 Car Bombs

May 25, 2001 Hadera 65 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb

May 18, 2001 Netanya 5 Killed, 100+ Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber at
Mall

May 9, 2001 Tekoa 2 Killed Islamic Jihad Two 14 year-old Boys Beaten
and Stoned to Death, found dismembered in a Cave

April 23, 2001 Or Yehuda 8 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb in Outdoor
Market

April 22, 2001 Kfar Saba 1 Killed, 60 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber at
Bus Stop

March 28, 2001 near Kfar Saba 2 Killed, 4 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber
at School Bus Stop

March 27, 2001 Jerusalem 7 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb

March 27, 2001 Jerusalem 28 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber

March 26, 2001 Hevron 10-Month Old Infant Shalhevet Pass Killed
Sniper from Abu Sneineh

March 4, 2001 Netanya 3 Killed, 65+ Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber

February 14, 2001 Azor 8 Killed, 21 Wounded Hamas Bus Driver Plows
into Crowd

January 23, 2001 Tulkarem 2 Killed Hamas Gunmen Kidnap and Shoot 2
Israelis

January 1, 2001 Netanya 50+ Wounded Hamas Car Bomb

December 22, 2000 Jordan Valley 3+ Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber

November 22, 2000 Hadera 2 Killed, 55 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb
next to Bus

November 20, 2000 Kfar Darom 2 Killed, 9 Wounded School Bus Bombed

November 2, 2000 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 10 Wounded Islamic Jihad Car Bomb
in outdoor Market

October 26, 2000 Gaza 1 Wounded Islamic Jihad Youth Suicide Bomber on
Bike

November 7, 1999 Netanya 27 Wounded Hamas 3 Pipe Bombs

August 10, 1999 Nahshon Junction 6 Wounded Hamas Car Plows into Crowd
(Twice)

November 6, 1998 Jerusalem 2 Killed, 20 Wounded Islamic Jihad 2
Suicide Bombers

October 29, 1998 Gush Katif 1 Killed, 8 Wounded Hamas Suicide Bomber
Attacks School Bus

October 19, 1998 Be'er Sheva 59 Wounded Hamas Grenades Thrown at
Central Bus Station

October 11, 1998 Hevron 18 Wounded Hamas 2 Grenades Injure
Palestinians and Israelis

August 27, 1998 Tel-Aviv 14 Wounded Hamas Bomb In Dumpster

August 20, 1998 Tel Rumeiyda Rabbi Killed Hamas Fire Bomb & Stabbing
Link
 

Re: Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

The violence in Palestine is caused by the Zionist state, a state that does not recognize the right of the Palestinian people to exist and has been attemting to anhilate the Palestinian people.
 

Re: Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

Reply to Voice of Reason: and what is wrong with both of your eyes that you don't see the genocide being committed in Sudan right now which is 100-fold worse than the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict for the past four years (death toll = cir.4000) In Sudan, 50,000 have died this year so far!!!
 

Palestine is not a country

Steve: Israel recognized Palestine in 1947 when they ACCEPTED the UN resolution to divide what was left of "Palestine" into two tiny states---Palestine and Israel. It was the ARABS who rejected the deal. Indeed, its been the Arabs who have continued violence against Jews in the area from the 1929 Hebron massacre on. The early Zionists BOUGHT land from willing sellers and settled on that land. All Jewish settlements in the West Bank are forbidden if they displace ONE Palestinian. Jewish settlements on the West Bank (which is actually named Judea and Samaria!!) are only on 4% of the land.

Voice has bought the anti-Israel diatribe hook, line, and sinker. Maybe she should do a little research. Look up 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 in a history book. See who was trying to genocide whom.

And Steve. Its NOT that the Israelis dont recognize the right of the Palestinian people to exist. If the Palestinians wish to build a national identity and self-determination for themselves in the area, more power to them. But to say they have been "Palestinians" longer than 1964 when the PLO invented them is just a lie.

Prior to 1964, Palestinian Arabs were ARABS. Many were born in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc. Arafat was born in Egypt. Edward Said, though born in Jerusalem, was the son of an Egyptian businessman and he grew up in Egypt.

As for a country called "Palestine". THAT had never existed and doesn't now. The name of the country that DOES exist is Israel. The "Palestinian" lands are technically unallocated portions of the British Palestine Mandate land, formerly the Ottoman empire.
They are under Israeli control from UN resolution 181 since 1967.
 

What do piles and piles of dead bodies mean to you?

Thank-you pointer for showing us where the bodies are buried. The victims were mostly civilians. They were murdered by Palestinian terror groups who usually brag about their "accomplishments."

At Duke University, at their October Palestine Solidarity Conference, they voted AGAINST a resolution that condemns suicide bombing as a legitimate form of struggle against an oppressor.

The hall was full of people and they just cheered!

Am I the only one who sees how sick and nuts this is to promote and applaud strapping bombs onto teenagers and sending them into pizzarias packed full of families at dinner time???

This outpouring of hate against the Jews of Israel is frightening. Steve said it. "The violence is caused by the Zionist State." What he means is that the VERY EXISTANCE of Jews in what he calls Palestine, is the cause of the violence. What is Steve's solution? Drive all the Jews into the sea? Send them back to Germany? Argentina? Ethiopia? and Russia? Or just kill them all as the Arab armies repeatedly vowed they would do in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973.

Not since 1973? you may ask.

Hmmmmm. Now when did that scumbag, Vanunu say the IDF got nukes????

While I missed Hedy Epstein's event, I note on her website that SHE was not a survivor of Auchwitz. SHE was in England when that all went down. And she's a struggling author no more, I see. Now that she's trashing Israel, she's on a speaking tour and her books are selling like hotcakes.

One more question. Are there any wealthy ARAB or MUSLIM anti-semites? Do you think they might ever pay someone to go around and say bad things about the Jews?
 

BJ: You have a fundamentalist mentality and no respect

"While I missed Hedy Epstein's event, I note on her website that SHE was not a survivor of Auchwitz."

you didn't have the guts to go and look her in the eye. you look on her website and draw ungrounded speculative trashy conclusions. her family was destroyed and you have the audacity to question her motives.


I believe you are a paid agitator.
I don't believe that the bahai faith teaches or approves of this kind of behavior.

you know of course that a majority of Israelis want a two party solution. they are living in the danger, know a lot more about it than you and I, and don't benefit from the promulgation of fundamentalist propaganda.
 

Becky Johnson and standard Zionist practice: CHANGE THE SUBJECT!!:

THESE ARGUMENTS BY ZIONIST RACISTS, LIKE BECKY JOHNSON, ARE RECYCLED BY THEM SO MANY TIMES THAT I JUST CUT-&-PASTE FROM MY PREVIOUS RESPONSES ELSEWHERE:


The ole Zionists' nonetheless *guilty* cry of, 'Why are you singling out Israel'!?

I call the Zionists' 'singling Israel out' argument the "JOHNNY DID IT TOO!" argument: no good parent would fall for that. But, that Zionist argument is not merely their trying to "muddy the waters", it's the Zionists trying to downright *DIVERT* attention! Like, 'Don't look at us! Look over *there*!'

And, of course, to Zionists "terror" is only done by Palestinians -- not the much greater and *original* terror of the Israeli govt! And then there's the singularly significant *anti*-Zionist Jewish question: "What gives a Jew from the suburbs of New York more of a right to live in Israel-Palestine than an indigenous Palestinian who lived there first and whose *traceable* family alone has lived on their land or in their homes (and even has century-old deeds) for hundreds of years!?"

But, also, *singularly*, Israel represents the largest partial transfer of wealth from one country to another in *all* of human history!! Israel -- not China, not the Sudan -- floats on a *sea* of U.S. tax money! The U.S. doesn't have a comprehensive housing program for the poor, so that Israel can have one for Russian "Jews" or Peruvian Indians on land stolen from Palestinians. And Ye ole propagandist non-Critical Thinkifier still calls even the Occupied Territories the Israeli propaganda name "the *disputed* territories. God has not made a better propagandist since Goebbels -- except for gehrig.

And one more point in this line, the Zionist Jewish oppression of the Palestinians represents the *LONGEST* humanitarian crisis of the 20th -- going into the 21st -- century. Not China and not the Sudan. Furthermore, Israel is, *singularly*, the *LAST* European colonial state of its kind -- the very last, after apartheid South Africa -- in the world! In no other modern state on earth have Europeans come from a distant continent (or more) and take over the land of a 3rd World people,set up a foreign (originally minority-rule, now a slim majority) white-supremacist govt, and still legally subjugate the indigenous people. Those are *ALSO* things that make Isreal different -- and worthy of being singled out. The West does not financially or ideologically support the Sudan or China. We in the U.S. -- especially with our billions and billions in our tax dollars and our supply of the very latest in ultra-modern military equipment -- make the mass brutal violation of the human rights of an indigenous people in Israel possible! We in the U.S. don't financially and militarily support human rights violations in the Sudan or China.

This garbage about Israel being singled out is just ZIONIST NARCISSIM and the eternalization and *singularization* of their own 'perpetual' self-victimology! The once brutally oppressed are not supposed to become the new brutal *oppressors*! They are supposed to become the special moral conscience of the world, that no one else ever becomes oppressed without their raising a voice -- and certainly not by Jews, just as not ever by African Americans (who raised their voices against Japanese-American internment during WWII, when Black-Americans didn't have it so good themselves!).

The left/progressives have 'singled out' plenty of other humanitarian atrocities -- and actually have far too long, if anything, *FAILED* to 'single out' Israel -- and crises from the U.S. & its puppet govt in Vietnam, to U.S.-supported Central American genocidal dictatorships (remember the santuary movement?), to Tibet, to now Iraq. The left/progressives 'singling out Israel' is *long* overdue.

Finally (and here is where I differ from Ms. Buttu), Israel represents and is an apartheid state, and Zionism *is* Israeli apartheid, *BUT* Israel is *WORSE* than South African apartheid -- and anyone from South Africa can tell you this. As violent as the South African apartheid govt was...there's a joke that white South Africans sometimes say: "Hey, wait a minute! You're giving apartheid a *really* bad name! Israel is *worse* than apartheid! We never lobbed tank shells and fired missiles into black townships! We never went in and blew up entire blocks of black family homes! We never forced black women to have babies out in the sweltering sun by the roadside! We never shot children for sport! Don't go giving apartheid a really bad name!"

And your essential point is right, "one more point": "Israel receives far more aid from the U.S. than any other country on the face of the planet," but, you need to add "IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE PLANET!!" And, your subsidiary point is also correct, 'it's not going to Israel for the Israeli Palestinians' -- and indeed Israel no where spends the money equally on Israeli Palestinians, if essentially at all. Listening to someone like non-Critical Thinkifier tell someone about being "honest and consistent" would be like listening to Goebbels tell someone about being "honest and consistent": it is to *LAUGH*! -- if you know these Zionist clowns! And listening to non-Critical Thinkifier talk about not letting ignorance reign would be like George W..., well, you get the point (they are both fairly interchangeable)!

ANYWAY, **GOOD** FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY!! THE MORAL TIDE IS FINALLY STARTING TO TURN AGAINST ISRAEL -- THE, SOON, NEWEST INTERNATIONALLY-RECOGNIZED (AT LEAST BY THE CIVILIZED PEOPLE OF THE WORLD) PARIAH STATE.

ALL YOU ZIONISTS (KELLY, NON-CT, GEHRIG, ETC.) *READ* THE NEW WRITING ON THE WALL!! READ IT AND WEEP!


I'M SORRY THAT I COULDN'T GET DOWN THERE FROM BERKELEY (THE DRIVE IS A BIT FAR), BUT I'M STILL SORRY THAT I DIDN'T GO HERE THE JEWISH **ANTI-ZIONIST** HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR LECTURING AT STANFORD LAST NIGHT.

WHAT I THINK IS SO SAD IS THAT JUST AS "GOOD GERMANS" TURNED THEIR HEADS, AND DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW, WHEN CENTRAL/EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS WERE BEING OPPRESSED AND EXTERMINATED, TOO MANY "GOOD JEWS" ARE TURNING THEIR HEADS, AND DON'T WANT OT KNOW, WHEN PALESTINIANS ARE BEING OPPRESSED AND SEMI-EXTERMINATED BY ZIONIST JEWS.

NOW, IN GENERAL, TODAY'S JEWS CAN'T LOOK UPON -- OR MORALLY *DOWN* UPON -- THE NAZI-ERA GERMANS AND SAY THAT THEY (TODAY'S JEWS) DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY. AND TODAY'S JEWS ARE MUCH FREER TO SPEAK OUT THAN THE "GOOD GERMANS" EVER WERE.

If you are abusing someone, perhaps you ought to stop doing that before complaining that your neighbor does it too -- this should be clear even to a twelve year old.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT, BECKY? **NOTHING** ANYONE CAN INTELLECTUALLY OR MORALLY SAY WOULD EVER CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE ABOUT YOUR ZIONIST STATE -- JUST LIKE **NOTHING** ANYONE COULD HAVE SAID WOULD HAVE EVER CONVINCED THE NAZIS OTHERWISE ABOUT THEIR NAZI STATE AND WANTING TO GET RID OF THE JEWS.
 

To Becky Johnson, ARCH-ZIONIST RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST RACIST:

Becky Johnson: "What he means is that the VERY EXISTANCE of Jews in what he calls Palestine, is the cause of the violence."

Palestine always had a very small percentage of indigenous Palestinian Jews. If the Arabs just hate Jews for being Jews, they could have pushed that very small percentage "into the sea", annihilate them, or whatever else you *CRAZZZY* Zionists claim the Arabs want to do. In fact, Arab Jews have lived all over the Arab world, in relative peace -- and, indeed, European Jews **RAN** to the Arab world for **SAFETY** during the European Inquisition!? In further fact, the European Zionist Jews -- specifically MOSSAD -- went all over the Arab world planting bombs in *Jewish* neighborhoods to *scare* them into going to Israel (when Israel couldn't otherwise *coerce* them into leaving): Arab Jews wouldn't hardly leave any other way!!

When the Armenians faced the same kind of massacres/holocaust in WWI Turkey that the Jews faced in WWII Nazi Germany, Armenian refugees went to Palestine; but the Armenians were *welcomed* into Palestine because the Armenians didn't go there with the fore-intention of mass dispossessing the indigenous Palestinian Arabs and forcing them out of their homes and off of their! And to this day, there are Armenian/Armenian-descended Palestinians in Palestine.

BUT, AGAIN, BECKY, YOU'RE JUST LIKE SOME OLD *NAZI*: ABSOLUTELY ***NOTHING*** ANYONE COULD INTELLECTUALLY, HISTORICALLY OR MORALLY SAY TO YOU COULD ***EVER*** CONVINCE YOU THAT WHAT IDEOLOGICAL JEWISH-SUPREMACISTS -- ZIONISTS -- WERE/ARE DOING IN PALESTINE AGAINST AN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IS JUST MORALLY WRONG -- LET ALONE WHAT *GANDHI* SAID ZIONISM WAS, "A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY".
 

WHAT WILL THOSE *CRAZZZY* ZIONISTS COME UP WITH NEXT!!?

ARCH-ZIONIST BECKY JOHNSON: "It is especially saddening when a Jewish holocaust survivor joins in the campaign to villify Israel and to uncritically support the Palestinian cause. I've wondered often on people who seem to be turning against their own people, and engaged in distorting the record, as Women in Black does routinely."

BECKY, DO YOU MEAN JEWS WHO THINK THAT JUST AS THERE SHOULD NOT BE A CHRISTIAN WHITE-SUPREMACIST STATE OPPRESSING JEWS, THERE SHOULD NOT BE A JEWISH WHITE-SUPREMACIST STATE OPPRESSING OTHERS?


ARCH-ZIONIST BECKY JOHNSON: "My latest -- [OH, I *BET* IT'S HER LATEST!!] -- theory -- [OH, HERE WE GO!!...: SOME CRAZZZY MADE-UP ZIONIST THEORY!!!] -- is to chalk it up to the "Battered Wife Syndrome" where the 20% or so Israeli "peace" movement have convinced themselves that "If only...." they do something, the violence directed against them will stop.

As the battered wife tries to psychologically regain control of a situation where she is being repeatedly battered by thinking "If only I keep the house cleaner" or "if only I don't state my opinions out loud so much " THEN the violence will stop." "

WELL ISRAEL IS *NOT* NAZI GERMANY, IF YOU NOTICE 'DEAR' BECKY, AND ISRAEL IS *NOT* THE WEAK ABUSED WIFE (IT'S BEEN CALLED THE 4TH/5TH STRONGEST MILITARY POWER ON EARTH), AND HEDY EPSTEIN APPARENTLY LIVES IN THE U.S., AND JUST LIKE HITLER INVADED OTHER COUNTRIES WITH THE GOAL OF TAKING THEM OVER AND SUBJUGATING THE NATIVE CITIZENS, EUROPEAN ZIONISTS INVADED PALESTINE WITH THE GOAL OF TAKING IT OVER AND SUBJUGATING THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

SO, BECKY, ISRAEL IS MORE IN THE ANALOGY OF THE ABUSIVE HUSBAND.

BUT, BECKY, TO EXPLAIN *ZIONIST* JEWISH BEHAVIOR I WOULD SUGGEST "THE ABUSED CHILD COMPLEX" AS A MORE APT EXPLANATION: THE WELL-KNOWN PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPLEX THAT EXPLAINS HOW THE ONCE SERIOUSLY AND CHRONICALLY ABUSED SOMETIMES GROWS UP OR GOES ON TO ABUSE OTHERS IN, COLLECTIVELY, ONE'S OWN ETERNAL PERPETUATION OF THEIR PSYCHE OF BEING ABUSED AND THEIR OWN SELF-VICTIMOLOGY.

THIS IS SOMETIMES A FORM OF SELF-HATRED TOO, AND THUS LASHING OUT AT OTHERS WHO ARE, FOR THE TIME BEING, MORE VULNERABLE. THE OTHER'S DISLIKE/RESISTANCE TO BEING, IN TURN, ABUSED MERELY CONFIRMS THE ORIGINALLY ABUSED PERSON'S GENERAL SENSE OF BEING HATED BY EVERYONE AND THUS JUSTIFIED IN WHATEVER THEY DO.

PALESTINIAN DISLIKE/RESISTANCE PER SE -- EVEN **PEACEFULLY** -- TO BEING INVADED, SETTLER-COLONIZED, MASSACRED, DISPOSSESSED, AND SUBJUGATED IS ITSELF CALLED, BY ZIONISTS, "ANTI-SEMITIC"!!

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH THE ZIONIST SETTLER-COLONIAL IDEOLOGY AND SUPPORTS PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS IS CALLED, BY ZIONISTS, AN "ANTI-SEMITE" (IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT PALESTINIANS ARE SEMITES TOO!). JEWS WHO DISAGREE WITH ZIONISM ARE CALLED "SELF-HATING" -- ESSENTIALLY THE CHARGE THAT BECKY JOHNSON IS LEVELLING AGAINST HEDY EPSTEIN.

The skewed worldview of Zionist ideology arises, I believe, from a particular psychological phenomenon. I believe that Zionists are experiencing, on the level of the Israeli national psyche, the well-known victim's psychological identification reaction, whereby some of those who were once victims of long-term severe abuse and brutality (as European Jews were under Nazism and European anti-Semitism) often go on to abuse and brutalize others. This is in the false belief that no one else, in the victim's mind, has ever really suffered what the victims have suffered — a priority and a monopoly on "real" pain, and a failure to validate another's. Such victims (here Zionists) think that they could never become brutalizers or oppressors themselves, and that no one else can ever really be brutalized or oppressed by them — no matter what is done at their hands or in their name. Thus, by this belief, Palestinians can never be victims of Zionists, and Zionists can never be oppressors of Palestinians. This represents a double tragedy, like what Albert Einstein said: "It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists do to Palestinians some of what Nazis did to Jews."

NOW -- WHAT YOU GOT TA SAY, BECKY JOHNSON???
 

Re: 2 lines by Becky

Becky: That protest march in Rafah recently where 8 people were killed (possibly by IDF rocket fire) had children at the front of a breakaway march going into a war zone defying curfew. IT IS THE ORGANIZERS OF THE PROTEST WHO PURPOSELY AND CYNICALLY PUT CHILDREN IN HARM'S WAY TO PROMOTE THEIR OWN CAUSE. ------------- I go: Yeah, OK, . .. listen Becky, what do you call moving thousands of miles to have lots of business, foreign aid, nuclear weapons and more trouble with the neighbours than where you came from besides having children at a rate second to none but the new neighbours? I'd say one migh more justifiable be upset with this form of, discounting the difference of those thousands of miles, 'putting children in harm's way' no?

ps: longer comment here:
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/11885
 

Re: Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

My grandparents were Holocaust survivors. Unlike the speaker, they were actually liberated from Dachau, a death camp. My grandmother came out from the war with four of her brothers and sisters, and my grandfather had two of his brothers left. All the rest was murdered. They would pity this woman and consider her a fraud. Does she get restitution from the German governement? Doubtful. Of course you can always find one nut, but please be aware that 99.9% of Holocaust survivors would repudiate this woman. If Israel existed in the 1930's the Holocaust it would have never happened. And if you want to know more about that, go do your own reaseach that is not a book that denies the Holocaust happened.

The Palestinians have been offered their own country three times, they have rejected it three times. The palestinians will not rest until the Jews are pushed to the sea and unfortunately that is not an option. Please go protest something real like the Tibetian occupation of China. Oh I'm sorry, if you did what the ISM is doing in Israel the Chinese Communists would simply shoot you on sight. This is why people like to condem Israel and her policies. You know that as a democratic society you can rant about Israel as much as you want and feel good that you are railing against western imperialism or whatever. God forbid you actually protest in a country with real human right violations, you would simply be the next victim. Arabs (men woman gay and straight) have the same rights as any Jewish or Christian Israeli in Israel, more than any other Arab country I might add. The Palestinians have a death cult and that will need to change before they are ever ready to live side by side wit the Israelis in peace.
 

Re: Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com
 

AND SEE!: "BECKY'S BRAIN!!: An Amazing 'Interview' With Becky Johnson of Santa Cruz"

BECKY'S BRAIN!!: An Amazing 'Interview' With Becky Johnson of Santa Cruz, by JA

www.indybay.org/news/2005/02/1719944_comment.php

SHE'S A REAL CHARACTER THERE IN SANTA CRUZ!!


For more, later, see (Becky Johnson):

Examiner ad demonizes Palestinian children, shows young girl with gun
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/14842/index.php


Albert Einstein Condemned Israeli Nazis
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/15529/index.php


Elise Cohen of The Fellowship Of Reconciliation talks about upcoming delegations to Israel
santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/14711/index.php


... YYYEP...!! SHE'S A **WACKO**!!
 

Israel is not going anywhere. Get used to it.

I blame the organizers of a pro-Palestinian demonstration that marched directly into a closed military zone with a group of children in the front lines as being responsible for the deaths that resulted.

As a counter-argument I hear that the Israelis are to blame for raising children in Israel!!

I suppose the "solution" by this poster is for the Israelis to pack up, and disperse all over the world abandoning the experiment called "Israel."

Yeah right!! Per UN resolution 181, Israel is as legitimate as any Arab state in the mideast.

Peace will come to the region when the Arab states accept the existance of the Jewish State of Israel and stop their endless war againts the Jews.

Why liberals in Santa Cruz should favor continued Arab war is beyond me.

And JA call me whacko???
 

Why do you say the Palestinians want their own state?

I appreciate R.e.L. comments such as "please be aware that 99.9% of Holocaust survivors would repudiate this woman." As I said, she herself is NOT a holocaust survivor, having spent the holocaust in England, but she lost family members to the holocaust. She is a traitor to her family. I wonder how she sleeps at night.

I also appreciate r.e.l.'s comment:

"The Palestinians have been offered their own country three times, they have rejected it three times."

However, I need to correct this information. Israeli historian David Meir-Levi has documented 13 separate efforts to give the Palestinians their own state side by side with Israel beginning in 1937.

The Oslo Accords were accepted in 1994 by Arafat, but he refused to stop his terror war against Israel so the three-phased plan to establish an independent state never made it past phase one.

In 2000, PM Barack offered Arafat virtually everything they had ever asked for. He demanded the "right of return" of another 5 million Palestinians currently living in Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan. Talks broke down here, and Arafat went home to launch his murderous intifada which targets civilians as a matter of course.

I would be for a two-state solution if I thought it would bring peace. I don't think it will. Ample evidence exists that the Palestinians are not interested in their own state. They want all of Israel.
 

Israel's mini-Marshall plan for the Palestinians

"...SERIOUSLY AND CHRONICALLY ABUSED SOMETIMES GROWS UP OR GOES ON TO ABUSE OTHERS IN, COLLECTIVELY, ONE'S OWN ETERNAL PERPETUATION OF THEIR PSYCHE OF BEING ABUSED AND THEIR OWN SELF-VICTIMOLOGY."

BECKY: Then how do you explain why these 'abusers' built 7 universities and 20 community colleges for their 'victims'. The Israelis built 166 health clinics for them and paid universal health insurance for them up until the Oslo accords. Infant mortality rates dropped by two thirds. Under the Israeli occupation (1967-1994) Palestinian income increased per capita by an average of 13% per year. Of course, since the intifada, incomes have dropped dramatically. Blame the Arab leaders for this and their endless choice to wage war instead of make peace.

Peace advocates should stop backing those who endlesslessly wage war. Israel wants peace and has always worked for peace. The evidence of this is overwhelming.
 

Anti-Semites aren't interested in the truth

Joseph, you say that whenever anyone voices a criticism of Israel, my knee-jerk response is to call them an anti-semite.

That is not what I am doing. If you look at what I actually write, you will see that I take every argument and "fact" presented and discuss its merits. Name-calling is rarely fruitful even if it is deserved.

You on the other hand wallow in name-calling and in labeling people. I don't think this adds to the dialogue here, creating more heat than light.

I also think that you shouldn't insult indymedia readers by endlessly cutting and pasting what you have posted before. Why can't you compose a response that addresses the exact issues raised?

Don't you have the facts to back up your charges?
 

See: "BECKY'S BRAIN!!: An Amazing 'Interview' With Becky Johnson of Santa Cruz"

"BECKY'S BRAIN!!: An Amazing 'Interview' With Becky Johnson of Santa Cruz, by JA"

santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/15463/index.php
 

Re: Holocaust Survivor to Speak on Israel/Palestine on Oct. 21

Google "Becky Zionist Johnson" and "Becky Johnson Israel" and you will see she spews her hate-propaganda coast to coast and worldwide. And they are pure lies so bad that in the long run she is hurting Jews - which, incidentally, she is not, by birth or conversion, but obviously wants to be, or wants to be like, so she can cash in on the victimological psychic rewards in addition to her pay.
 

I think I write the truth

Affirmative claims I write "pure lies" but he/she fails to post a single example.

It is true that I am not Jewish.
I am a former Christian (raised Lutheran) but I converted to the Bahai faith in 1990.

As a Bahai I am totally committed to ending racism in the world, as Bahaullah taught. He said that racism is the source of the majority of the world's problems. He taught that before we can have world peace, there must be justice.

My work with homeless people, and my defenses against the endless unjustified attacks against the Israeli people are all part of my work towards a more just world, and hopefully towards world peace.

Try googling "Becky Johnson" and "homeless" and see what you get.

I have no idea what the writer means by "cashing in on victimological psychic rewards."

I AM a member of Dafka, but I serve in a volunteer capacity.
 

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