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Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

On October 18th, hundreds of students marched and rallied at UC Santa Cruz to protest the presence of military recruiters at the campus career fair.

A Queer Kiss-in was staged in front of recruiters' tables during the march and rally. From inside the fair, kissers were able to effectively block access to military recruiters without shutting down the entire career fair.

The military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" hiring practices are in violation of the UC system�s non-discrimination policy. Protesters demanded that the UC adhere to its own policies by protecting all students from discrimination and securing UCSC as a hate-free zone.

Currently, the Solomon Amendment states that any
university which denies military recruiters "equal access" to students will lose federal funding. The Forum for Academic and Institutional Rights (FAIR) is challenging
the constitutionality of the Solomon amendment in a Supreme Court case, FAIR v Rumsfeld, which will be heard in December. Protesters on Tuesday urged the University of California to become the thirty-ninth school in the country to join FAIR.
 
 


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Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

There's some pictures at evan.branigans.net/
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

thanks for the great reportback from the demonstration. the military knows they are not welcome at UCSC, but they come here to prove a point to us. we must continue to organize and resist. i am glad that we were able to keep the military from recruiting at UCSC today, and glad we were able to smile at times. things stayed pretty cool and calm.

but now, we need to really keep the recruiters out of here and we need to continue expanding our outreach (and demonstrations) to the local high schoolers who are really being targeted by military to serve as first fodder.

thanks to all the students, staff, faculty, community members and especially SAW for coming out today.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

You didnt win! An they will back every week like always!!
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

I have a hard time understand how this is a ‘victory’ for those involved in the protest. The school will not remove recruiters just because 50 members of its activist community were making out in front of their booth and screaming nonsense.
If they really wanted to challenge the role and methods of military recruiters, they should have tried to organize a civil discussion with them. The protest however only went to reinforce the rest of the school that there are those within who are actively trying to curtail their rights to gain information.

If you don’t want to be part of the military, then don’t join. It really is that easy!
 

Re: Oscar

"If you don’t want to be part of the military, then don’t join. It really is that easy!"
and stop paying taxes and stop using capital and move to another planet its really that easy :)

" they should have tried to organize a civil discussion with them" Yea I never understood why conversations with police in charge of reinforcing the state never went well. Its almost like they are paid to do something and their livelihood depends on their continued support of that position...and what do you know they are not interested in giving that up when presented with some clever arguments.

"Curtail their rights to gain information" That is exactly true we feel military branding to students should be curtailed. Its not like they are getting any recruits from UCSC anyway the protest and eventual removal of recruiters at ucsc is a purely symbolic battle to confront social aesthetics of militarism. The military does not hope to recruit many on campuses rather they are there to improve their mental image in the larger mental environment. We confront that image and de-normalize militarism. This is an important step in mental environment battle which sets up frames of reference for the larger population. We aim to destroy the cool fascism military aesthetic, not to “prevent? ucsc students from being recruited; socioeconomic conditions already do that for us.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

"Its not like they are getting any recruits from UCSC anyway..."

Using that logic, we should just remove political books that are unpopular from libraries simply because they likely wont persuade anyone in this counties. I think all information should be made available to all folks, regardless of where they are or what the social norms are. I would assume most of you would not like to see that kind of censorship.

"...stop paying taxes and stop using capital and move to another planet..."

Well, moving to another planet may be a challange, but the option to move to another country is always an option. Not that I think it is a very productive one.

"Yea I never understood why conversations with police in charge of reinforcing the state never went well."

If you show up to events like this looking for a fight, then thats what you are probably gonna get. I am not going to defend every police officer, but I do think it is a job of the utmost importance that few people really respect. Thats fine if you dont, but to state that the police are just violent footsoilders for an evil facist stae is nonsense. Thankfully, most folks will agree.

"We confront that image and de-normalize militarism. "

Take a step back and really look at the results of your work. If you think having events like the one yesterday is productive for your cause, then by all means, go for it. I disagree with your whole argument, and I think it is based on a whole lot of unfound assumptions, but I think these events dont help your cause one bit. I didnt see one face in the group who has not been at other related and unrelated protests. So who are you really reaching? Or are you doing this out of some sense of self righteousness?
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

"National Stand Down Day"
End The Iraq War - Demonstrations and Nonviolent Resistance at
Recruiting Stations Across the Country
November 18, 2005
Day,"

This call is made in support of the "National ‘Not Your Soldier’ Youth and Student Day
of Action" call for a youth and student led counter-recruitment day of action on Thursday, November 17.

We encourage everyone who will participate in National Stand Down Day on November 18 to support the efforts of local students as well - you can find out more by going to
www.nyspc.net/home.php

Please join us as we say NO the war in Iraq, and NO to the recruitment of our fellow Americans into this war.
If you are interested in joining this nationally coordinated day of nonviolent action to end the war,
please contact us at www.iraqpledge.org

National Stand Down Day is a project of the Iraq Pledge of Resistance’s National Campaign for Nonviolent Resistance.


Endorsers (list in formation):
Code Pink Women for Peace
National Call for Nonviolent Resistance
Progressive Democrats of America
Iraq Pledge of Resistance
Democracy Rising
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

How bout you guys stop shitting on everyone elses rights. You know it is great that you guys don't like that war in iraq so go wave your banners over there. Some poeple actually want and need to join the military so stop trying to push your beliefs on them. You all pretend to be so open minded but all you guys listen to is your own stupid ideas which perpetuates the stereo type of the stupid hippy who protests for the sake of protesting. And in case you morons forget you do go to a public school funded by federal money. Maybe you all should have gone to private schools then you could cry about the government with out looking like a bunch of idiotic hypocrits. How bout you all go get jobs, stop wasting my tax money, and stop being a drain on the economy.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Reality, what is reality? I can't tell if you're just venting about your personal problems or actually trying to have a dialogue, but I'll respond anyways (sorry if you're just venting).

First this "hippie" thing is just over used and boring. What is a hippie? Why do people keep talking about hippies in santa cruz? It seems like hippie means, junky, stoner, protester, liberal, democrat, antiwar, antibush, antineocon, communist, terrorist, criminal, idiot, smelly person, homeless, anarchist, etc. I think a "hippie" is a sociohistorical construct that is now used to identify anyone you don't agree with. So why is there such an obsession with calling certain UCSC students hippies? The popular buzz word should be terrorist anyways. it used to be communist.

what does protest for the sake of protesting mean? i hear that quite a few times now, its an interesting statment. Like eating for the sake of eating. We need to have some higher cause. I'm just joking, but i think that this is an issue of perspective (and most of these issues are). You see it, like many others, as protesting for the sake of protesting. While those organizing are trying various methods to gain there goals like most conscious organisms. Protesting is one of the methods employed against the recruiters. It is one of the most public forms trying to engage other less interested people into the issues. And we're all learning. And, like the stereotype goes, if we are lazy stupid stoner anarchist hippies, then how did we organize this? HOw did we get out of our houses to get all the resources needed to stage this event? Fascinating. Like the theme in Hamlet, be vs seems.

I really like your last comment. Go get jobs, we all have jobs. Thus we pay taxes. So we aren't necessarily wasting your money. I'm sorry you feel like your money is wasted, and the economy sux because of an antiwar protest. I don't see the connection to be honest, but i understand your frustration. And probably that is why we protest. Our taxes are used in this war and supporting these military recruiters. SO if we stoped using our taxes in the military, we'd all have more moeny to spend. then you'd be happier with more money, better economy (although military weapons are a big export of the US), and then no more protests. How about that?

School is funded by federal money, yes. Federal money is funded by our tax dollars, yes. We have jobs and we pay our taxes. This is all logical, what isn't logical is why our money (tax->federal money->public school funding) has any connection with the military having to be in our university. its our money, why do we need to have conditions imposed on our money? And you know, if we went to a private school and protested, you'd be there telling us to get a job and stop draining the economy. what a lose lose situation. it seems like we hippies, whoever we are, need to relocate to another country. but where is the US military not present? damn it, i can't find one. i'm too stupid to find a country that has no US military presence nearby. Well, we idiotic hypocrits are at a loss, and you are too since we'll have to work this out some how.

but remember, we tend to discuss issues on different levels, and many times are guilty of being ethonocentric. We need to contextualize every issue and event. There are social, historical, environmental (physical), and philosophical elements that need to be addressed. Name calling doesn't really help, although if you can get enough people to do it all the time, it might help alienate that group of individuals. And if that is your goal then i guess there is nothing more you can say about that. Anyways, i hope you are not an unhappy person, like many of the protesters who enjoy life but are also involved in expressing their ideas, thoughts, and feelings in various forms.

If you or anyone is interested in seriously discussing this issue, then lets set up a place and time. It'll be a good exchange of ideas/emotions. I'm interested in constructive dialogue. So i half wrote this with my weird sense of humor, but if you seriously want to engage in this topic, post that desire, and we'll figure something out. If you're just venting, sorry for picking at your message, and vent away!!!

paz
Kai the stupid
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

I don’t think folks who go out to events like this are dumb. I think it is perfectly acceptable to say you are morally against war in any form. I think that is a perfectly sane argument to make.
I also think it is acceptable to appose the current rules the military practices concerning women and homosexuals. I have a problem with the militaries positions on these topics as well.
I also think that stopping recruitment ‘one person at a time’ is a practical way to put your ideas into action.

So I really am trying to avoid the trap these discussions often take when it turns into “You stupid smelly hippies? and “ you fuckin fascist pigs?. That really is conversation for folks who don’t want to convince anyone of anything. They just want a fight.

I do however think that a civilian army is far better than a draft, and I will support any individuals right to sign up. When my told me he was thinking of signing up for military service after high school, I had to remind him what it means to make that jump. I served honorable and I enjoyed it for the most part. But I knew that whatever the military was promising me had to come in second to the fact that I could be sent to die in a war. A war a may not even be 100% convinced was worth it. But I knew that when I signed up, that is part of the job. I continue to tell anyone who is thinking about enlisting that they have to come to a very adult mindset that is aware that they could die. What they decide is up to them, and I will support any individual who wants to sign up, but it is no game.

So I guess my whole point is think about your decisions, and let others think about theirs as well. But I would hope you all would not demonize folks who come to a different conclusion than your own on this issue.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

First an interesting tangent:

The word "Hippie" or "Hippy" is actually derived from "hip" which is in turn derived from the Wolof word hippi, or heppi (has many other possible spellings). In Wolof it means, "one who has his/her eyes open."

It was originally term used by blacks in the US to refer to friends (black and white). The modern pejorative transformation of the word actually has some aspects of racism embedded in it.

So "dirty hippy" also evokes "dirty n****r," no matter how you slice it, while fascist pig is simply calling things straight. Bush and the U.S. military-industrial complex are fascist pigs.


As far as this "debate" about the "rights" of students to gain "information" about the military goes, a few things are missing that should be said.

The military is a totalitarian institution: if you join you no longer have freedom of speech, or even basic bodily freedoms. You are effectively its ward. Additionally, the military is not required to allow other organizations access to its personell. The military has complete oversight as to who and what other organizations it associates with, while universities do not.

Thus, why should we assume that any attempt to block the military from recruiting on college campuses is a violation of the military's or student's freedoms to associate with or access one another? If the military bans me as a peace activist from entering its academies, boot camps, and regiments, why can't universities do the same? If the democratic will of the university community decides that military recruiters are not necessarily in line with the university's goals, then the school should be able to exercise its freedom of association and ban recruiter access, just as the military does with all other organizations.

Are we to say that the military has more rights than the university or any individual? That the military's rights do not end where my, or my organization's nose begins?

I think not.

-D

p.s. Keep it up SAW! And keep your eyes peeled. Down here in SB our faculty Senate is awaiting the Supreme Court's decision on the Solomon Amend. Afterward we will be moving to ban recruiters, and more.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

"Thus, why should we assume that any attempt to block the military from recruiting on college campuses is a violation of the military's or student's freedoms to associate with or access one another? If the military bans me as a peace activist from entering its academies, boot camps, and regiments, why can't universities do the same? If the democratic will of the university community decides that military recruiters are not necessarily in line with the university's goals, then the school should be able to exercise its freedom of association and ban recruiter access, just as the military does with all other organizations."

Because a university and the military are not at all the same.

And a school can exercise its right to ban recruiters - it just does so at the peril of federal funding. Similar to how the federal government tied highway funding and their desire for a universal 21+ drinking age together.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Regardless, I think it's wrong to ban groups that you disagree with. Let people think for themselves rather than decide you should do it for them.

The Surfrider outfit is comprised of some good people, maybe you should go down and talk to them sometime?
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

"So "dirty hippy" also evokes "dirty n****r," no matter how you slice it, while fascist pig is simply calling things straight. Bush and the U.S. military-industrial complex are fascist pigs."

My goodness, I did get a good laugh when I read this.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Free speech is an interesting topic and seems to be one of the key elements against this particular event. Can someone define it por favor. Its a very complicated issue it seems like.

For instance, is it ok to say anything, since it is free speech? Even if it has severe/violent/illegal consequences? I'll clarify with some examples.

In Rwanda, the radio kept telling the Hutus to kill Tutsis and regular civilians began to muder their neighbors with machetes, raping Tutsui girls, the works. (it was the most efficient attempt of genecide in history). IS that free speech?

FOr Bush's first election, FOX had advertised before the recount was finished, that Bush had won. Later on it was clear that there was no clear winner. But FOX kept the winner as Bush and all the other "liberal" stations decided to follow the good old fox and told the population that Bush had won. THis is distorted and probably a planned tactic that worked really well. Is that free speech?

Pat R. telling his audience on his show that Hugo Chavez should be taken out with our forces, and illegal act (not to mention hypocritical in light of our invasion), free speech?

These might seem like extreme examples but they are recent tangible incidents that have or might have serious consequences of violence.

I personally feel that free speech gets complicated when the speaker is manipulating the audience toward violence, or information that might lead to violence. The military is promotes violence by nature, unfortunately. They practice to kill people without thnking twice. You'd have a very inefficient army if your soldiers kept thinking about whether or not is was ethical or really the goal of your mission to kill the person your bosses called the "enemy."

Military, current administration, gangs, mafia, KKK, terrorists etc. all promote violence in some way through their speech and actions. They are not necessarily similar organizations, but have similar tactics and consequences. SO what do you think? Is it necessary for us to allow violence promoting organizations, or calls for violence to be part of free speech?

Also, how much free speech was really blocked by the protest? I doubt it really affects the the military if they have a queer kiss in, and others questioning the recruiters? What message from the military was not allowed? What was it that they were not able to say?

I do agree that banning groups you don't agree with isn't a good tactic, but it is not as simple as that. If you have a gang problem, should you just accept them for who they are and let them recruit your friends and children? It might be a hard parallel to see, but in a lot of ways if you focus on violence and the macho fear group identity based culture, they are very similar. So is this some abstract issue about free speech in the ideal world, or are there clear parameters about what freespeech is.

I do agree that education is the key, and i think protests are a way of educating people. Unfortunately most people just are uninterested in all the social, political, environmental issues. Any suggestions on how to educate the masses? This is a university that can barely get ppl to show up to classes though.

Should we tolerate violence? (the war gets more complicated because we're trying to end violence through violence. And the freedom fighters/terrorist (an issue of discourse) are using violence against the violence of the US, which is geared toward ending violence? What do you think?

PS i'm still down to figure out a time and place to meet if you believe your ideas are solid, or if you want to learn a different perspective.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

I would be down to talk to folks about these topics. I think this whole conversation is of the utmost importance. I am leaving the area for a number of months for New Orleans however. I will keep my eyes on this site for any events of this nature upon my return.

I do think Gangs/KKK/mafia and all other groups I don’t like have the right to talk about their ideas and goals. They can site on a street corner and scream about anything they like all they want.
I don’t think they have a right to just go about and break the law when it comes to using violence. I think this is where the conversation gets a bit murky…

I think that having a military is important to the nation’s survival, and the citizens that live in it. I have a hard time saying every time the military is called upon to get involved in a conflict it is for the better, but if I have to make a broad generalization, I would say that it is important to have an army that can be called upon at a moments notice. Hence, I like the idea of having a volunteer army that is trained and ready to go at all times. As K the ignorant stated, you would have a very inefficient army if the solider was constantly questioning the mission. I know this is going to sound terrible, but I do not think a solider has the liberty that a normal civilian has for very practical reasons. Now, if a solider feels that the mission before him is completely unethical, they can opt out. There will be punishment for it, but I am sure you are all aware of the soldiers who decided the Iraq war was not one they felt worth fighting.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Some of you have missed the whole point of the protest ... it wasn't a protest of military recruitment, it was a protest of the military's discrimination policies. Some of us feel that only organizations that can follow UCSC's anti-discrimination policies should be allowed to participate in the career fair. This was not an 'anti-war' protest!
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

@ Queer Kiss-in-ers: Thank you for keeping the protest respectful and nonviolent, I applaud that.

@ SAW: The Commission on Un-American Activities wants their tactics back.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

I'm going to laugh when some of you get drafted...by blocking people from VOLUNTEERING to join the military, you are going to force the gov't to resort to a draft.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

"I'm going to laugh when some of you get drafted...by blocking people from VOLUNTEERING to join the military, you are going to force the gov't to resort to a draft."

We are going to do it? Now that's turning reality upside down. If there is a draft it will be because the fuckin Republicans and Democrats sent us into a horrible war for the profits of Halliburton and the like.

We didn’t force them into this war a brutal occupation of Iraq. Their own greed and stupidity did that.

Equal Rights For All! No to Discrimination in the Military!

End The Anglo/American Occupation Of Iraq! U.S. Troops Home Now!

Stop The Torture! Release The Prisoners and Give Guantanamo Bay Back To Cuba!

End The Use Of Depleted Uranium! Medical Care For The Iraqi People and The U.S. / British Soldiers Suffering Massive Casualties From Radiation Poisoning!

U.S. Military Off Campus Now!
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

The draft will be the single best thing for the American anti-war movement
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

“Newsflash? says, "The draft will be the single best thing for the American anti-war movement."

This is a bullshit ultra-left attitude. Sure, perhaps the invasion of Iran would help build the movement as well. But hear me, what you say matters! People are listening and they want sanity, not stuff as dumb as Bush in reverse.

Our enemies will initiate (or not) the draft with or without our input. We are better off opposing the U.S. government every step of the way in its evil plans. We should oppose their “voluntary? recruitment as well as any future draft to continue to carry out mass murder for corporate profit. If the government initiates the draft, we should use it against them to win an end to the war, but we should be very careful. A draft will be very painful to interruption to many peoples’ lives in the United States and it will cause more pain to the people of Iraq.

No Draft! No War! U.S. Out Of Iraq Now!
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

Stop The Torture! Release The Prisoners and Give Guantanamo Bay Back To Cuba!


That is the lamest statement you have posted yet. One does not stop torture by feeding the nation that actively engages in it. Your efforts would be better spent advocating the freedom of the cuban people from the clutches of fidel.
 

Re: Rally, Queer Kiss-in Greet Military Recruiters at UCSC

“Bombs may kill the hungry, the sick, and the ignorant, but bombs cannot kill hunger, disease and ignorance. Nor can bombs kill the righteous rebellion of the people.? Fidel Castro

The United States is the biggest mass murderer and human rights violator in the world.

While Cuba's human rights record under Castro is not spotless it is much better than that of the previous U.S. imposed and backed dictatorship of Batista that murdered tens of thousands of Cubans.

In contrast to the U.S. puppet Batista the government of revolutionary Cuba has done much to better the lives of the people. Likewise Cuba reaches out to better the lives of the people of the world. While the U.S. sends troops around the world to kill and terrorize for the profits of big oil and the arms industry, Cuba sends doctors around the world to benefit humanity.

Today the injustice and torture on the island of Cuba is being done by the U.S. government at the illegally occupied base in Cuban territory at Guantánamo Bay:

Amnesty International: Guantánamo Bay - a human rights scandal
web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

Equal Rights For All! No to Discrimination in the Military!

End The Anglo/American Occupation Of Iraq! U.S. Troops Home Now!

Stop The Torture! Release The Prisoners and Give Guantanamo Bay Back To Cuba!

End The Use Of Depleted Uranium! Medical Care For The Iraqi People and The U.S. / British Soldiers Suffering Massive Casualties From Radiation Poisoning!

U.S. Military Off Campus Now!
 

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