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Men who batter women are terrorists

"Domestic violence" is overwhelmingly MALE violence against women. The FBI's definition of terrorism is, "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce the government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Men who batter women use force and violence to "intimidate or coerce" in furtherance of their "social objective" – male supremacy. Since women are a "segment" of "the civilian population," men who batter them are legally "terrorists."

Presently, men control religion and government. Thus, issues which particularly interest and affect women such as domestic violence, the environment, housing, child care, job training, education, family planning, and health care are chronically underfunded – if they're funded at all.

Wife-beating is a "traditional family value." The "Rule of Thumb" was a law allowing Englishmen to beat their wives with a stick "no thicker than a man's thumb" to make them obey. According to the U.S. surgeon general, battering is the number one "health" problem of women in America.

[ The Feminist Agenda! ]
Men who batter women are terrorists
By Utopia bold

"Domestic violence" is overwhelmingly MALE violence against women. This is the definition of "terrorism" — according to the FBI.

The FBI's definition of terrorism is, "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce the government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Men who batter women use force and violence to "intimidate or coerce" in furtherance of their "social objective" – male supremacy. Since women are a "segment" of "the civilian population," men who batter them are legally "terrorists."

Male-supremacist power institutions like religion and government have developed in every culture. Carol Christ who wrote "Why Women Need the Goddess" said, "In order to change society, the changes would have to be in the best interests of the people controlling the power institutions. If their interests are not served, the changes are repressed."

Scripture is a collection of statements attributed to God's and copy-edited by men. All the world's major religions are male supremacist, their respective gods "granting" men the right to be the family dictator.

Men's gods are also "terrorists." They also use force and coersion, threatening hell and punishment if one dares to disobey.

Presently, men control religion and government. Thus, issues which particularly interest and affect women such as domestic violence, the environment, housing, child care, job training, education, family planning, and health care are chronically underfunded–if they're funded at all. In Webster's Dictionary, "family" comes from the root word meaning "group of servants." A "husband" is the "male head of the household." "Husband" is also a verb meaning, "to use and employ to good purpose and best advantage," as in animal husbandry.

"Wife" comes from the root word for "veiled" and also means "the female of a pair of mated animals."

Bill McCartney, founder of the right-wing men's group Promise Keepers, tells men to "tenderly and gently" take their "god-given" position as "head" of the family . But what happens when women don't placidly submit to being "husbanded" like livestock?

Wife-beating is a "traditional family value." The "Rule of Thumb" was a law allowing Englishmen to beat their wives with a stick "no thicker than a man's thumb" to make them obey. According to the U.S. surgeon general, battering is the number one "health" problem of women in America.

Since families are the building blocks of society and most families are male supremacist dictatorships, it follows that societies and governments reflect the "traditional" family's dictatorial "ethic of"might makes right."

In her book The Demon Lover, Robin Morgan said, “The majority of the population in virtually all nation-states is female, and is forced by patriarchy to obey, be silent and acquiesce-which means that “democracy? does not yet exist anywhere!?

Nations are macrocosms of dysfunctional families and war is a macrocosm of domestic violence. The personal is political. All violence is connected."Our" 90 % male government hands over more than $450 billion a year to the military. The "big boys" get to buy all the "war toys" they want while schools are underfunded, the homeless shiver in the cold and battered women have no place to go.

Much of this shamefully squandered tax money was taken from women. Thus, women are forced to be "enablers" of dysfunctional nations just as battered women are often forced to be the enablers holding their dysfunctional families together.

Many can't leave, since there "isn't enough money" for battered women's shelters and resources. However, things are beginning to change. On October 24th, 1997, women from around the world presented the Women's Peace Petition to the President of the 52nd United Nations General Assembly. The petition circled the globe via mail, fax, Internet and word-of-mouth. It contained more than 90,000 signatures with thousands coming from India, Turkey, Philippines, Mozambique, Canada and Australia and the United States.

The Petition read: "We are horrified at the levels of violence witnessed during this century and that women and children are the primary victims of war and poverty. On behalf of society at large, we, the undersigned women of the world, demand that annually, for the next five years, at least five per cent of national military expenditures be redirected to health, education and employment programs. By doing so, one half billion dollars a day would be released worldwide for programs to improve living standards.

"We also demand that war, like slavery, colonialism and apartheid, be delegitimized as an acceptable form of social behaviour, and that governments and civil society together develop new institutions that do not resort to violence for the settlement of disputes.

Together we commit ourselves, as half of the world's population, to use our power to ensure that these demands, which will promote international peace and security, are met through legislation and action. We resolve that we will inaugurate a new century that rejects warfare and promotes well-being, justice and human rights."

Early feminist union organizers encouraged women to come out of their homes and participate in "social housekeeping" to "sweep away" oppression and "clean up" society. Even though the Peace Petition has already been presented, we should continue to make copies, collect signatures and network to share our ideas. In this way, millions of creative ways to build peace can be shared to end war and domestic violence.

As Susan B Anthony said, "failure is impossible!" If war begins at home, so does peace! If you or your children are threatened by a household "terrorist," call the Domestic Violence hotline at-800-799-7233 to find a shelter near you.

Visit www.got.net/~elained/ for more information about domestic violence and how to safely leave a dangerous partner.
 
 


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Comments

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

ugh you wreck your message by spreading the over use of the word terrorist... this only encourages the right to use the word terrorist to describe, dissent as terrorism, or actions carried out for dissent as criminal and terrorist
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

And it is up to us women to stop raising our sons to become men like these, and to teach our daughters to respect themselves. There is a huge segment of our population that is made up of families run by single mothers. Many view single mothers as having perhaps less social and political power than most. This does not have to be true. I see them as having more power than married women, because while they may bear the crushing restrictions of financial crisis and poor childcare, in the end they alone choose which values to raise their children with. What influence that could be!
rebootd.blogspot.com
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Yes. This is an issue that needs to be heard. We need to speak out loud and clear. A sad fact is that the leading cause of death for pregnant women is being killed by the father of the baby to come. I've wanted to make a bumper sticker that says:"Fight Terrorism, Stop Domestic Violence". The deaths and woundings attributable to domestic violence are far greater in number than the lost lives on 9/11, and the long term effects on the quality of our culture are incalculatable. The indifference shown by the military regarding the civilian casualties in Iraq is an expression of the same attitude...whatever it takes to maintain the pecking order. The irony is that men are victimized much more than women and children in this system. Abusers see themselves primarily as victims. Our nuclear arsenol doesn't represent our awesome strength, it indicates the extreme degree of fear upon which our military is founded. *a note about single mothers; studies are starting show how children benefit more from having a single mother.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

I really wish that the 't' key on all keyboards across America would break for just one day so people would have to stop comparing things with terrorism. I agree that domestic abuse is a far bigger threat to the welfare of this country than any imaginary WMDs, but, by comparing domestic violence to terrorism, you are defeating your point.
People hear terrorism so often today that it becomes meaningless. Like any other propaganda, the battle cry of defeating terrorism gets less effective every time it is used. (Remember the war to defeat the commies and drugs. not what I would call hot issues anymore)
Keep the terrorist label to the political debates. Abusive people should be filed under an old favorite of mine... "assholes".
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

To all who think the word "terrorist" should not be used to label an abusive wife-beater, read the FBI's own definition of "terrorist" in my article. They defined what a terrorist is, and the description fits an abuser.

Many women with small children and no money are forced to live with a terrorizing male abuser. Even if the woman moves out, they are often stalked and killed. According to the US surgeon general, 75% of male violence murder occurs after she leaves.

Not providing thousands of battered womens shelters coast to coast is a form of deliberate house arrest for women, since the male controled US government will not fund battered womens shelters or job training because there supposedly isnt "enough money" . However, one billion dollars a day is available for US soldiers to terrorize civilians in Iraq)

Brendan is partially correct— woman beaters are assholes-but not all assholes are woman beaters!
The label "terrorist" fits, especially the term "domestic terrorist".
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

So...what about the women who beat up men? You know, that side of the world which isn't referred to generally in everyday life? Because it does happen.
 

Not all assholes are men

I've met more men victimized by women physically/financially you name it in this world. People are plainly inherently cruel, no matter what the gender. Women seem to want more sympathy, yet have the smallest hearts, except for themselves and their children.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

According to "Men are Not Cost-Effective" by June Stephenson Ph.D., the following statistics from the US Dept. of Justic Statistics indicate that men commit :
99% of rapes, 92% of burglary, 92% of robbery, 90% of car theft, 91% public drunkeness,90% vandalism, 88% of murder, 87% of arson, and 97% of child molestation.

Being beaten up by men is the number one "health" problem of American women.

Global male violence (war and the arms trade) costs the worlds nations one TRILLION dollars a year. As millions of men dress alike and obediently kill each other, (and deny women birth control), the natural world is being destroyed by billions of excess humans whose mothers didnt want to give birth to them. War and famine go hand in hand.

According to the UN Population Fund, there are 90 million babies born each year,
EIGHTY MILLION pregnancies were either unwanted or ill timed. Men also own and control the multi billion dollar a year porn industry which casts women as sub- objects for men to use and abuse.

Although there are many men who reject barbaric male culture and who are kind to women and children, their numbers are (as yet)too small to counter act the patriarchal knuckle-draggers who (temporarily) run the world. But thank the Goddess, the number of kind, evolved men is on the increase!

If women beating up men was such a huge problem, the male controled government would have built mens shelters on every street corner.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Why does the above picture, intended as an emblem of womyn's empowerment, show her wearing EAR RINGS! Self-mutilation for the decorative enjoyment of MEN is the lowest form of degredation, because womyn do it to themselves becoming our own worst enemy! I demand the image be changed if it is to represent the true spirit of our struggle for independence. Clearly a MAN drew that picture. And though he probably knew not what he was doing, he subconsciously poisons our cause in this way just as misoginy is a subconscious poison in our paternalistic war-mongering culture where womyn must abuse and torture themselves to satisfy our neanderthal oppressers.
 

The FBI Are Terrorists

The last post complains, “Why does the above picture, intended as an emblem of womyn's empowerment, show her wearing EAR RINGS! Self-mutilation for the decorative enjoyment of MEN is the lowest form of degradation…?

As a man I have never promoted earrings, nor have I promoted patriarchy, imperialist war, or class oppression. Yet I must come to the defense of the artist.

Perhaps the cartoon woman pierced her ears to look good (or what she perceives to look good) for a lesbian partner instead of a man. Does it really make any difference? Piercing ears is hardly the foot binding that was banned in China, nor the genital mutilation of baby girls that goes on in Africa, nor the genital mutilation that goes on against baby boys in America for that matter either.

I like the cartoon and think the artist, whether a man or a woman, did a good job.

On another subject I would like to caution the author of the original post against quoting the FBI on telling us what terrorism is. The FBI is itself the ultimate terrorist organization in this land. The FBI orchestrated the murders of 40 Black Panther members and the frame-ups of many others as well as having targeted Martin Luther King Jr., Malcom X, and others in other movements for peace, socialism and social justice.

The FBI are America’s police of terror for political repression. They are not friends of the women’s movement.
 

Mutilation vs Objectivitation

Ear rings a hardly a form of "self-mutilation" as the previous knee-jerk poster asserts. However, these bauble-like body decorations do reinforce the paradigm that a woman is merely a thing like a car, to be decorated or "tricked out" as the prized possession of her male owner.

In much the same way, a woman to this day often surrenders her family's name in favor of that of her male companion in marriage, harkening to the reprehensible view that a woman was merely property and marriage was merely the transfer of that property from one man's house into another's.

I do believe that these practices reinforce psychologically the premises once behind them, and that we must weed out once and for all this self-destructive training that patriarchal culture foists upon unknown women and girls through fashion magazines and television.

They are the last vestiges of the disease that is patriarchy - a disease of the mind but no less real. We have almost won the war against them, but now is not the time to let up.

A woman's mind must be celebrated, not relegated to the shadow cast by mundane idolization of her body (an enduring facet of patriarcy, you must admit). It is established fact that in non-heterosexual relationships, a much greater emphasis is placed upon emotional bonding, support, and building a pair relationship that is nurturing.

A woman is not a Christmas tree, my friend. But this icon in use above, does reinforce that belief. I too would like to see it updated to reflect these hopefully more-enlightened times.

With respect,
Darren P.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Self-righteous reactionaries who rap themselves in the comfy flag of lefty/progressive/feminist/radicalism as a means to cover their ignorance and to avoid introspection. Bravo!

DEFINITION OF TERRORISM:
While I agree with Steve Argue that we should generally reject the FBI and its pronouncements, in this case the definition that they offer for "terrorism" is one that is generally agreed upon by the international community. (And I happen to think it's a fairly good definition, too.) It's just that nobody ever applies the definition to their own acts... only to the acts of persons/groups whom they oppose. Convenient, huh? Thus, when "they" plant a roadside bomb, it's terrorism. But when "we" carpetbomb a city (or an entire nation) that's not terrorism. In fact, it's outside the scope of debate: there's not even a moment's thought that we could possibly engage in terrorism.

ABUSERS ARE NOT TERRORISTS:
Accepting the definition as given, it is quite a stretch to place domestic abusers into that category. Unless you are actually going to argue each individual male abuser has as his intent that his abuse against his female partner cause fear and intimidation among the members of the general category of "all women" (or just "all women in that society"), then "he" does not fit the definition.

That "terror" is the reaction to a given act does not thereby make the actor a "terrorist." The actor must have the intent to cause the teror. And it must be an intent to cause terror amongst a (significant) segment of a population, if not the entire population.

Domestic abusers are criminals, but they are NOT terrorists.

And for as much as domestic abusers are usually men who hurt women, PLEASE do not forget about men that abuse their male partners, nor women that abuse their male or female partners.

EARRINGS, ETC:
Body adornment and modification (or mutilation, depending upon your perspective), is extremely common among human groups and societies around the planet. It is practiced by groups where the degree of gender-based differential in power is significant, as well as in groups where this differential is slight.

Among different groups, such adornment and/or modification may be primarily done by men, women, or both, to greater or lesser degrees.

It also may signify rank or class status, and if so, may or may not vary bewteen genders within the same rank/class.

In our own society, one need not look very hard to find folks of various genders who firmly reject patriarchy and simultaneously embrace body adornment and modification... seemingly without contradiction.

===============
and i said "look at you this morning
you are by far the cutest
but be careful getting coffee
i think these people wanna shoot us
or maybe there's some kind of local
competition here to see
who can be the rudest"

people talk about my image
like i come in two dimensions
like lipstick is a sign of my declining mind
like what i happen to be wearing the day
that someone takes my picture
is my new statement for all of womankind

i wish they could see us now
in leather bras and rubber shorts
like some ridiculous team uniform
for some ridiculous new sport
quick someone call the girl police
and file a report
 

Does this person support patriarchy?

Does this person support the patriarchy? Or is s/he oppressed by it? Both? Can we answer such questions by counting the number of piercings this person has?
Don't judge a book by its cover.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Utopia Bold has finally figured it out! If you want to get lots of "helpful" suggestions, identify yourself as a woman or as an advocate for women. You'll get all sorts of "useful" commentary aimed at telling you how the world really is, how you (in essence) shouldn't get so emotional about things and all sorts of other nitpicking instead addressing the main point of your article.

What the hell? Earrings aren't feminist? That totally smells like a troll comment to me. Of course the figure in the cartoon has earrings! It is a parody of the 1950's Supermanish comic style. And as for the use of the word "terrorist" in this article, I think it is an entirely appropriate and timely device aimed at helping people change the way they view domestic violence.

Utopia: I would argue that not all institutions or religious figures are completely male-dominated, but I don't think that your take on these issues obscures your lucid message in this article.

Thank you for bringing about awareness and a sense of urgency to the problem of domestic violence in the U.S. and throughout the world. I will be fighting it with you!
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

"Presently, men control religion and government. Thus, issues which particularly interest and affect women such as domestic violence, the environment, housing, child care, job training, education, family planning, and health care are chronically underfunded – if they're funded at all."

Quite curious, because one wonders why men rule politics considering women make up more than half the adult population.
 

Bullshit Propaganda

I grew up abused/terrorized by a woman (other than my mother) and a man. It didn't feel any better when the woman did it! You can hand me all the demographic "hate men" propaganda you want, and that doesn't change my experience!.... Where's the demographic on how many men who are abused that don't report it(like me)?!..How about the now popular lying to cops/courts to manipulate men?!...And since when does perpetuating hate solve anything! There isn't any evidence that women can do any better, at least that I've seen!!
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

"There isn't any evidence that women can do any better, at least that I've seen!!"

Are you forgetting Margaret Thatcher and Condoleezza Rice?
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

What is this REALLY about?

I'll tell you.

The Neocon leaders have successfully whipped both their followers and a large portion of the massies into a paranoid frenzy against "terrorists". It's a programmed knee-jerk reaction, so that our so-called representatives can now just slap the Terrorist label on any people they wish the public to oppose.

Having loaded so much emotional baggage into the word, now some liberal groups see an opportunity to co-opt that hysteria to their own ends.

So now the popular tactic is to equate one's own established devil-of-choice with the word "terrorist". Just to try and cash in on some of the xenophobic us-vs-them tribal hysteria so successfully generated by Washington DC.

This is such a joke. Is that all politics is to you, just chasing the latest successful MARKETING STRATEGY?

We all know the strong who batter the weak without just cause are evil. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS.

Has your personal cause fallen by the wayside?
Has it drowned in the buzz of other front-page issues?

Looking for a way to revitalize your old cause, slap some fresh PR paint on it, make it shiny and new and hot and current?

Then jump on the Catch-Phrase Bandwagon!

Obsessed with litter but in our info-tainment culture the word "litterbug" just doesnt set people talking? Jealous that these "terrorists" have stolen your limelight? Co-opt the Terrorist(tm) brand and bring fresh enthusiasm to your cause!

Litterbugs are "resource terrorists". Graffitti vandals are "viewspace terrorists". Violent husbands are "domestic partner terrorists". People who drive fast are "traffic terrorists". People who go to their office job with a cold are "occupational terrorists".

WHATEVER.

I'm sorry if you feel that Al Qaeda has stolen your thunder. I'm sorry that the general public is only concerned with being entertained, and isnt paying your pet cause the interest it deserves.

But resorting to blatant marketing manipulation to create new buzz about your tired old product is demeaning to the victims of the violence you oppose.
 

Men And Demographics

I was in personal and group therapy for over ten years, and heard similar stories from dozens of men who never even thought of reporting abuses to the police. (I don't think this is uncommon) All of a sudden the police/feds are women's friends? ..and their "poll" like demographics are realistic proof of this overwhelming "evil" behavior of men, in contrast to women?
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Thatcher and Rice? They just prove that women can wage war and lie to Congress just as effectively as men. We need to feminize/sensitize society, not just put women with male values in the halls of power.
 

Weapons Of Male Destruction

Government experts say they are everywhere!! The fear is terrorizing!! I just love all of this drama. Could we have some more flagellation please?! (How women are completely left out of this equation is proof they are all of purer genetics!)
 

War Is Not A Male Value

John Thielking says, "We need to feminize/sensitize society, not just put women with male values in the halls of power."

War in today’s society is not a male value. War is the act of the capitalist class to defend and conquer new markets. Many of those capitalist oppressors and mass murderers are men, but they also include women. Margaret Thatcher and Condoleezza Rice are good examples of women with power carrying out war for the capitalist class. Women are also now among the duped and bought out foot soldiers of mass murder, oppression, and torture sent to countries like Iraq as well.

Sexism and violence against women is a primary question that must resolved, but the struggle for women's rights takes place within the context of class exploitation and imperialist oppression.

In America the violence of carrying out class and racist oppression is often brought home by the police, the profession most likely to beat their wives. Likewise the methods of violence in imperialist war, coupled with drug, alcohol, and psychological problems are sometimes brought home by soldiers in the form of domestic abuse.

The same oppressors that are breaking unions and sending working class youth off to war are blocking the struggle for women’s equality. Democrat and Republican Parties alike oppose minimal advances in women’s rights such as the Equal Rights Amendment and equal pay for equal work.

Likewise “Utopia Bold? is right to point out that the religions promote sexism. Challenging the medieval beliefs of such religious institutions is an important part of the struggle to destroy the kinds of sexist thinking that breed violence against women.

For Equal Rights! Pass the ERA! Defend the right of women to control their own bodies! Free Abortion On Demand Through National Healthcare! No To Forced Sterilization! For Women's Liberation Through Socialist Revolution!
 

female cops

Female cops tend to be among the worst.
 

Woman Stabbed on Pacific Ave, by Another Woman

Woman stabbed on Pacific Avenue
santacruz.indymedia.org/otherpress/display/403
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Male violence against women is terrorism. The number one health problem of women in the U.S. is battery by men. Most women who are killed by men they are in an abusive relationship with after they leave. In other words the terrorists follow them and find them and then kill them after they leave.

Male violence against women is worldwide it is practiced against the largest segment of the world population.

All these emails asking the typical what about Margaret Thatcher and Condolezza Rice are trying to make the exeption the rule. Men started and conducted every war ever occurring on the planet. They have proved that men are not morally or intellectually competent to run the world's human affairs.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

"They have proved that men are not morally or intellectually competent to run the world's human affairs."

This doesn't suggest women are - Are there inherent, that is, genetic differences between men and women that would indicate men are unable to lead?

Or is it because men are the dominant sex?
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

What about male violence against men who have perpetrated violence against women, to discourage future violence against women?

I'm speaking of the almost-all male police force, prison system, and of course the avg Joe on the street who would come to your rescue in a heartbeat if he heard a cry for help. (Something even I myself have had to do once, when I was the solitary witness to a live assault.)

You blame all men for the crimes of some, and give no credit to the good men who stand against the bad.

There are bad men, to be sure. They are everywhere. There's probably one living in your neighborhood right now, who would happily rape every woman on your block once a week like clockwork.

But he doesn't. Because he lives in fear of the violence that other MEN (police, guards, civilians) would visit upon him in retalliation. He lives in fear because of the violence that has been visited upon countless abusers who have been successfully identified, captured, and punished in the past.

Think men are scum? Fine - put a sign in your front yard that says "Attention Burglars, Rapists, and Killers - I will not call upon any men to defend me if attacked."

Why do people insist on playing these word games? We already have "assault and battery" and "rape" as well-established charges. Anyone with a conscience already knows these are evil acts.

What is it you intend to accomplish with this rhetoric?

Sounds like you're USING the issues of rape and assault to further the cause of your own sick gender prejudice.

Feminism is one thing. Feminist EXTREMISM is another. What you are spewing, is the latter.

If you dislike the way that male-dominated politics runs, just imagine female-dominated politics.

Women are just as bad, and just as viscious - only less upfront in their aggression. Less OPEN and HONEST in their aggression. Ive had countless WOMEN tell me this, even.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

n557 asked:
Q. Are there inherent, that is, genetic differences between men and women that would indicate men are unable to lead? Or is it because men are the dominant sex?

A. No.
The fact that men started all the thousands of wars during the last 5,000 years and the US Bureau of Justice Statistics data that men commit 92% of all violent crime- that indicates that most men are unfit to rule.

However, this is not a genetic biological fault. It is the artificial social mandate of "manhood" (patriarchy) that is just as artificial as women being told to be submissive to men.
Most men have been brainwashed to believe in "manhood" This is why they are unfit to lead.

Since some men are kind and non patriarchal, and some women are total psychos such as Margaret Thatcher etc, proves male violence and female submissiveness is a learned behavior.

In ancient Crete, men enjoyed and preserved **1500 years** of peace. It is NOT normal for zillions of men to walk in unison (march) and allow other men to dress them all alike like barbie dolls with accessories (guns and bombs)!
It is NOT natural for men to be so obedient that they kill other men they dont even know just because some dysfunctional knuckle-drager tells them to (I was just obeying orders etc Baaaa! Baaaaa!)

There is no dominant sex.
The only reason men run the world (are primitively "dominant" ) is because they gang up on the weak, (like the cowards they are) and rape and kill them.

Here is some information to answer the endless "What about Margaret Thatcher" question I have heard a few thousand times from the Gift Economy web site.

Q: Men have a feminine side; women have a masculine side. What we need is
balance.

A: I believe that the female is the norm. That is, all human beings are
maternal, and the most important human processes such as communication, are based
on directly satisfying needs like mothers do. That is, on gift giving.
Patriarchal masculinity, the characteristics of which are domination and not-giving,
is a social pattern that is invented in opposition to mothering as the basis of
an artificial non maternal male identity, which is due to socialization
according to a mistaken social interpretation of biological differences. “Balance”
is over valued as a concept because of the market emphasis on equating
values. What we need to do is not to balance male and female but to dismantle
patriarchy entirely and propose a gift giving identity for all, and an economy that
fits that identity.

Q: Some men are very gift giving and compassionate while some women are
cruel, stingy and want to dominate.

A: We live in a Patriarchal Capitalist system, which functions according to
the values of self interest, accumulation and domination. It brainwashes both
women and men, broadcasting its values to the whole society. Thus women can
embrace the Patriarchal Capitalist values while it is also possible that some men
do not, and that they remain more in touch with the maternal economy. The
institutions in which we participate have deep patriarchal patterns however.



As for women needing protection-who do we need protecton from? MEN!
Cops and armies are male protection rackets to supply jobs for men who would be out of work if most men werent violent jerks.
 

Men who batter women aren't terrorists

Do you wonder why it's so hard to get a broad section of society to simply understand the concept of "patriarchy?"

One factor, as I see it, lies in hyperbolic descriptions, several of which can be found above.

In these, half the human species seems to be branded as incorrigible rapists and murderers, while the other half is portrayed as the embodiment of self-actualized perfection.

Who's going to listen to that? Why should they? It's hateful dogma.

Men started almost all the wars. They also built almost all the hospitals and wrote most of the books. They make most of the music, paintings, poetry, etc.

That doesn't make "men" better or worse.

It just points out that on top of all the unjustifiable class/race differentials, our social system also contains a persistent, gender-based power differential.

Such imbalances can be found along lines of class and "race," yet these are arbitrary, socially-constructed concepts, and they tend to be more fluid over time.

Gender (or here, Sex), on the other hand, is principally seen in absolutist, "either/or" terms -- a dichotomy. (It's not, of course... gender runs a spectrum, as well. But that's too long of a discussion to try to have here.) Sex differences are not socially constructed, and are relatively static. Imbalances based upon gender tend thus to be more persistent.

Perhaps it's not actually "men vs women" that's the problem, but is instead the power differential and, importantly, its persistence.

=====
Amazon Woman wrote:
"It is NOT natural for men to be so obedient that they kill other men they dont even know just because some dysfunctional knuckle-drager tells them to..."

"men run the world (are primitively "dominant" )"

WARFARE IS AS NATURAL AS AGRICULTURE. Maybe you should reconsider your use of terms such as "natural" and "primitive" and "knuckle-dragger."

The way you use those terms, I can't tell whether you think we all used to live in peace & harmony, or if life was brutish and short. Do you think that the natural state of things is loving cooperation or a chaotic nightmare of primitive domination, rape, and murder?

And what of biology? How do we account for the fact that, other than the bonobo/pygmy chimp, our closest primate relatives have male-dominated societies?

====
Amazon Woman wrote:
"As for women needing protection-who do we need protecton from? MEN!"

It is comments such as that which perpetuate the very dichotomies we should seek to eliminate. Women don't need protection from men... We ALL need protection, and all need to protect each other, from those who would harm and/or oppress us.
 

"Behind every successful man

.. stands a successful woman."

An old saying, meaning that while men typically stand at the forefront of achievement, the wives, mothers, girlfriends, and sisters of these same men helped them to get there, and deserve equal credit.

Well..

Behind every corrupt president, every evil CEO, every bloodthirsty soldier, isnt there a woman supporting him?

Wives, girlfriends, sisters, daughters..

Shouldnt those same women share the blame for the evil done by the evil men they support?

The feminist double-standard.

For every Marge Thatcher or Condi Rice, there are thousands of Barbara Bushes and Lynn Cheneys.

Women, supporting and nurting these evil men.

Not the crazed rapist or psycho serial killer. They probably have no women in their life. But these people are the exception, not the rule. They are few and far between.

It's the warhawk politicians, the bloodthisty soldiers, the maniacal corporate execs, these are the men committing 99% of the crimes in the world.

And they all have devoted wives, loving girlfriends, supportive sisters and loyal daughters cheering them on and doing everything they can to support their men.
 

And men don't use their turn signals either!!

"Looking for a way to revitalize your old cause, slap some fresh PR paint on it, make it shiny and new and hot and current? Then jump on the Catch-Phrase Bandwagon! Obsessed with litter but in our info-tainment culture..."

So this is an old, tired issue which any media angle employed to get attention from the general public is a trick?

Violence against women is down-played. Even if you look at annual stats for crime statistics, they separate out assaults of women by men into the separate category of crimes which are not counted towards the total crime.

That women can be violent too is beside the point and fueled by a different dynamic. A woman putting her male companion in the hospital is the minority exception, but a man putting his wife/girlfriend in the hospital is so common it may not even rate a line in the cops and courts.

Male violence against women is condoned, winked at, and even expected. Men can complain all day about "extreme feminism" while they enjoy the male priviledge of walking down the street without fearing every woman who walks past them.

June Stephenson's stats from the justice dept. more than confirm that violence against women, against other men, and organized violence in the form of aggessive wars are largely male phenonmenon where women "stand in" for men on occasion.

Its competition vs. cooperation

Look at male drivers.
Men don't use their turn signals nearly as much as women. In fact 47% of men fail to use the turn signal compared to just 20% of women.

Those doing that study said they believed it has to do with the attitude of male drivers. Its a I'm-driving-here-you-lookout attitude, while women are concerned with cooperating with the other cars on the highway so everyone gets there and gets home safe.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Why is it every male fault is treated as an inherent flaw in the gender-species, yet every female fault is instantly forgiven by those same accusers as some form of conditioning imposed upon women by society?
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

It seems the many men who posted defensive responses for their violence by citing "women are violent too" cant read.

Scroll up to my explanation that male violence is NOT an inherent genetic trait, it is patriarchal socializing that holds men to lower standards than women. This is why men DO commit most violence.

Also, all women have been immersed for 5,000 years in a globally violent society (created by patriarchal men) and SOME take on its sick characteristics. This does not change the fact that men commit most violence and that two wrongs dont make a right.

Testosteone poisoning is a cop out and a myth since men are also rational beings who can CHOOSEwhen to be violent. IF, as many man claim, men cant control their tempers, then they WOULD be unfit to rule.

Nean@derthal wrote "WARFARE IS AS NATURAL AS AGRICULTURE." and seems to argue in defense of men being violent and for violence being a human trait shared by women—which is isnt.

Again, this was proven by thousands of hunter gatherer tribes and early Goddess societies where men did NOT wage war for 1,500 years as I posted earlier.

For proof of the inherent kindness of men before being violently socialized, read "The Lost World of the Kalahari" by Laurens Van der Post who lived with the bushmen who did not wage war for TWENTY THOUSAND YEARS, and
"The Chalice and the Blade" by Riane Eisler, and
"Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Europe" by Marija Gimbutas.
Violenct is NOT an inherent human trait, it was started by tribes of herdsmen in ancient Siberia and what is now the MId East. The herdsman culture lives on today, in the cowboy worship in the US and bull fighting in Spain (Man over Nature) blah blah etc.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

One doesn't have to read any further than this "study" to see that women are just as aggressive, and full of shit as men are.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

You're absolutely correct, Amazon Woman. Two wrongs don't make a right. Nor do two injustices make justice.

Feminism is reactionary gender prejudice. Rather than promoting gender neutrality, it only adds fuel to the fire. How about we all agree that qualitative opinions based on gender be foregone in favor of gender blindness, which like color blindness, is the only true road to justice.

Everything else is just revenge.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

equality, not feminism: Please look up the definition of "feminism." The definitions that I found are as follows:
 

1. [n]  the movement aimed at equal rights for women

2. [n]  a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women

Therefore, "feminism" is not a reactionary gender prejudice (though it may very well be practiced as such by some); it is a concise term to describe "equality for women."

N.D.B.:"One doesn't have to read any further than this "study" to see that women are just as aggressive, and full of shit as men are."

Why would someone assume that aggression *isn't* a female quality (as if implied in this comment)? I would also assert that nuturing behavior isn't the sole domain of women; men have a unique capacity for nuturing families and their offspring and there is biological evidence for this phenomenon. (Look up more information about the hormone Vasopressin and its influence on behavior.)
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Freeda> If you read this thread, Amazon Woman has continually made the point that agression is purely male, in the most negative way. I have no problem with equal rights for women, nuturing by males, or aggression as not gender based. The sexist lack of respect for all males by certain females is my point.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Aggression is not the same as war mongering, domination or domestic abuse, which is what I read described by Amazon Woman.

Also, Patriarchy is not a organization that was consciously conceived by some male-dominated conspriracy cult. Rather, it is another descriptive term that applies to a collective syndrome that has its roots in male-dominated culture. I do not perceive it as a blanket accusition of all men or male culture. I guess I don't see the general lack of respect for all males here, but I will read through again.

For the record: Someone above wrote about mutual respect and I agree that we need more of it. IMHO, one way to demonstrate that is by acknowledging a person's plea for help. This essay is just that. By nitpicking about the details, I feel it shows a lack of regard for the over all message of the article which needs SO MUCH MORE PUBLICITY and SUPPORT: THE ABUSE OF WOMEN IS WIDESPREAD AND WE MUST ADDRESS IT.

Thanks for the good dialogue.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

The "progressive" movement"which is largely controled by men, attacks class injustice, homophobia and racism —but never sexism.

This is because class injustice and homophobia also harms MEN but sexism primarily harms the worlds women.

Mr. white man and Mr. men of color dont want to lose their male priviledge.

If Racism was erased from the earth, men could still rape, exploit, and beat up their wives and girlfriends and remain in control of the worlds governments, military, education system, technology, finance, medicine, law, and media.

There is NO nation on earth in which women enjoy all the rights of men. Men still deny most of the worlds women the right to use birth control or to have an abortion.

This is because the uterus is regarded as their personal factory farm and the more babies they cause, the more they proudly beat their chests. Overpopulation is caused by men

Against abortion? Get a vastecomy!
 

Equality

Now I know why some women get their asses kicked. You people are hideous examples of humanity, and deserve it, just like men who act the same way.
 

What Female Voices Do You Listen To?

The words of the late, great Shirley Chisholm seem appropriate here.

"I've always met more discrimination being a woman than being black," she told The Associated Press in December 1982, shortly before she left Washington to teach at Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts. "When I ran for the Congress, when I ran for president, I met more discrimination as a woman than for being black. Men are men."

-January 3, 2005, NY Times Obituary
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

No domestic bullshit wrote,

"Now I know why some women get their asses kicked. . .(you) deserve it just like the men who act the same way."

Wow. How profound. Kicking ass will solve everything, as long as its the men kicking women's asses— like the cowards they are.

Bullys are cowards.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Amazon Women wrote:
>Nean@derthal wrote "WARFARE IS AS NATURAL
>AS AGRICULTURE." and seems to argue in
>defense of men being violent and for violence
>being a human trait shared by women—which
>is isnt.

No, you totally missed my point. NEITHER warfare nor agriculture are "natural." They have largely arisen from radical changes in how most humans live. Actually, to be more correct, it is arguably agriculture that has led us to modern warfare as we know it.

As for violence, we need to distinguish "violence" from "warfare." They are not the same thing. For that matter, what IS violence? Are lions violent? Chimpanzees? If so, violence is "natural." And if not, then you're defining violence as a purely human trait. You can't have it both ways.

As for the books, one needs to distinguish between scientific facts and plausible hypotheses. Some of these books do a fine job of looking at the scientific evidence (as we currently know it) and then placing a significant number of hypotheses on top of that evidence. These hypothese are often plausible, but also are often stacked upon each other, creating a theoretical house-of-cards. Not that these books should be ignored, but let's not forget that their instructive value should be seen as primarily theortetical rather than as scientific history.

For more on the Gatherer/Hunter peoples of the Kalahari (from an expressly feminist perspective) you might enjoy Marjorie Shostak's book, "Nisa: The Life and Words of a Kung Woman" (Harvard University Press, 1981).

Gotta go now... more later.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

A brief synopsis/obituary for Shostak and her work:

dieoff.org/page107.htm
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Freeda, I very much appreciate and agree with your explanation/clarification of "aggression" and of "patriarchy." And I, too, feel that we need greater levels of mutual respect (and: support and cooperation).

So when you write that...

>I guess I don't see the
>general lack of respect
>for all males here

...I want to point out several instances that could (at least) be construed as blaming "all men" for various injustices in the world. It doesn't mean that some of the examples I'll offer are without merit, just that the way they are stated is such that it easy for a reader to feel as though they are reading a blanket attack against all men, rather that against patriarchy.

* "men are not morally or intellectually competent"

* "most men are unfit to rule"

* "who do we [women] need protecton from? MEN!"

* "many men who posted defensive responses for their violence"

* "Overpopulation is caused by men"

Personally, I try to be aware of class/race/gender dynamics in all of my social interactions, and to work, where I can, to reduce/eliminate oppressive differences. Where I'm not able to actually change the situation, I can at least try to be aware of it, tell others about it, and think/talk about how we might choose to change things for the better if given that option.

But it helps to get a little solidarity instead of being told that I'm part of the problem.

These hurtful remarks certainly don't make me question whether I'm a feminist... OF COURSE I'm a feminist. It just makes we sad for others who, in their rage and pain, may not be able to clearly distinguish friend from foe.

=================

people, we are standing at ground zero
of the feminist revolution
yeah, it was an inside job
stoic and sly
one we're supposed to forget
and downplay and deny
but i think the time is nothing
if not nigh
to let the truth out
coolest f-word ever deserves a fucking shout!
i mean
why can't all decent men and women
call themselves feminists?
out of respect
for those who fought for this

Ani DiFranco, excerpt from "Grand Canyon," 2004
 

Not all men are abusers some are victims

Their are just as many male vitims as female victims if not a tad bit more. So what you are suggesting is that anyone who beats an intimate partner or child is a terrorist. INCLUDING WOMEN!!!! I have done my research on the topic and when I women physically or mentally hurts a man, society comes up with some excuse for them. In fact my best friend was beat up by his wife for not understanding a fight between her and a friend. She broke his arm and when he tried to report her the police laughed at him. You need to get your facts straight.
 

Re: Men who batter women are terrorists

Call the hotline? My daughters called the hotline after leaving the biological father of her son and is still trying to get back her full rights as a mother. A non-profit organization? She's paying, so far, $350.00 for help with paper work! She was battered by her ex-boyfriend. (who she lived with and had a son,too).She witnessed an attempted murder by him. Then left. He kidnapped her son with his mothers help. ( his mother is in denial.- I believe she is a batterer herself). The only reason they brought my grandson back to my daughter was, because, they would have went to jail after a posted Amber alert. Do I believe they who batter and harrass, continuously, are terrorrists? Absolutely! He hasn't quit. And a failing justice system is to uneducated to support my daughters attempts to protect herself and especially her child. Where are a mothers rights to protect in this U.S.A.? Have we lost our focus here at home? Can we teach another nation justice for all,when we can't maintain our own?
 

STAND UP!!!!!!!!

the men who have abused you even when you have left still think they can control you and get the law enforcement behind them and make you look like the bad party. I'm the daughter to the last response and i've just about had it with being so kind and generous to a man who does not care about how our son feels at night when he's crying out for his mother night after night. My son was kidnapped from me after I took a beating and left his mother stole him from me and kept him from an innocent and good mother. It is just sick and twisted right?? and no law enforcement thinks they can do anyhting about it(long story there) well I'm going stand up for what is right and I'll fight till I can't speak no more this fight in america is far from over victims we need to become the intimidator and fight back even if we have to find a judge who will listen even if it's out of are own country to get rights look up the aclu...and get involved!
 

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