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Davis

CA 95616'
'Santa Cruz Medical Marijuana Co-op Busted by DEA'
 
 


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reply to Dave

Dave,

> First of all there is no evidence that Lockyer knew of
> the raid in advance.

Agreed, so far there appears to be a rift between state/county/local and the feds. However, these are also extremely secretive and very military-minded organizations with a common cause. They cooperate all the time, and off duty there are countless inter-agency friendships, so some informal cooperation in this case remains plausible.

> Second, how can you expect Lockyer to do his job as you
> described it - but not expect the Feds to do their jobs
> too? Answer - you can't. They were doing their jobs
> according to the prevailing laws and that's all you can
> expect those feds to do - Ever.

I don't want anyone to "do their job" when that job involves doing something downright evil. I dont want mafia legbreakers to just "do their job". I don't want professional child pornographers to just "do their job". I don't want armed paramilitary thugs from Washington who are assigned to assault harmless gardeners to "do their job".

> I don't want the Feds to make judgements about what laws
> to enforce - that leads to racist enforcement and loads
> of other problems.

Agreed in part. While blind obediance to a mere employer keeps the door closed to selective enforcement, when a nation suffers as we do from a near total lack of accountability on the part of the enforcing agents and their agencies, blind obedience to bad laws becomes crime without punishment.

If agents and agencies cannot be punished for their crimes - and yesterday's raid was definitely a crime.. trespassing, assault, kidnapping, destruction of property, theft, brandishing of weapons.. then they get out of control and have no deterrent against committing such crimes.

There is no justice in America anymore. What happens next, the feds drop the charges and everyone says "See? It's okay now"? WAMM's entire 2002 crop for almost 300 people was just destroyed, in classic punish-first-press-charges-later fashion.

Will WAMM be compensated for their lost property, so they can buy 130 new ready-to-harvest plants? Will a false arrest lawsuit earn them compensation for an unjust invasion? Ha! The courts sold us out long ago on this issue. With luck, WAMM will only suffer the loss of the plants and the trauma of the raid.

But if their case goes anything like most do these days, next they'll find the DEA trying to outright steal their land and home by filing a civil asset forfeiture suit in federal court against *the property itself*, and the Corrals having to spend time, energy, and money defending the property in civil court (where the feds have a much lower standard of proof to meet.)

In times such as these, personal direct responsibility for one's own actions goes beyond a moral imperative - it becomes a practical necessity. A responsible law enforcement community, sworn to protect and serve the public peace, would refuse to enforce grossly unjust laws - and furthermore, would not engage in wanton pre-trial destruction of property in the 1st place.

America's legislative branch is writing awful laws, laws that violate the very US Constitution itself - opinions of the Supremes notwithstanding.

America's executive branch is guilty of not only enforcing these bad laws, but of gleefully terrorizing us in the process, and then trying to pass the buck by saying "Don't blame me, I just do it for the money."

Meanwhile, America's judicial branch turns a blind eye and says "Nothing to see here, move along."

The checks and balances in the system have *all failed*. Evil is being done - not random acts of nature like flood or tornados, but willful medieval Crusade-like assaults on blatantly innocent and harmless people. SOMEONE IS RESPONSIBLE, AND SHOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE.

Who? I'll tell you who - the assholes without whom all this wouldnt be possible. The assholes kicking in doors at 7am in full body armor with machine guns locked and loaded and ready to shoot anyone who so much as swings a fist in self-defense. The assholes who then go tearing the place up and stealing the private property of the sick and dying *simply because they need it*.

These sadistic terrorists shouldn't be reprimanded, or even fined. They should be tried, convicted, and shot. Yes, Im saying this publically because too many are saying it under their breath - EXECUTED. (Read my email and tap my phone all you like, FBI.)

> I think the Feds wanted a day off from the terrorism
> thing so they decided to drive down to Santa Cruz
> Thursday.

And coincidentally it just happened to be right before harvest time? Riiiight.

They took the day off from chasing terrorists, to play terrorists. The so-called War on Drugs, and the "civil asset forfeiture" program that grew from it, has become a tremendous cash cow for all levels of the DoJ. Furthermore, the WoD has become a fantastic PR tool which the DoJ has used to expand police powers in the legal realm beyond anyone's wildest fears.

The troops were playing cowboys and indians, while the generals were trying to put an end to not strike a blow against the medical marijuana movement, but specifically Valerie's extensive 3 year research into the medicinal value of specific strains of cannabis. The medical marijuana movement, and Valerie in particular, are a threat to the so-called War on Drugs and thus a threat to the DoJ's billion dollar "revenue stream".

> I doubt they will be back to that plot for a couple of
> years at least.

Oh, what a relief to only have your home and garden assaulted by well-trained and heavily armed professional warriors once every couple years.

This is America?

When foreign terrorists aren't bombing us, domestic terrorists like the DEA are robbing and assaulting us. Happy 9/11!

-Van
 

Reply to Van

Your comments sound kind of extreme. Like mabey you are someone in a lot of pain because you can't get the pot to treat your condition?

As I'm sure you know the death penalty in the state is administered by lethal chemicals and not by shooting. So I don't understand that part of your comments.

Just out of curiosity - do you oppose the death penalty for Mumia A. J.?
 

re: Dave

> Your comments sound kind of extreme.

Extreme outrage is an appropriate response to an extreme crime. The DEA raiding sick people and maliciously destroying their garden is extreme - particularly when these raiders are known career criminals with a history of these atrocities.

> Like mabey you are someone in a lot of pain because you
> can't get the pot to treat your condition?

My pain is outrage. My condition is sympathy with the sick and dying who are being attacked by publically-funded stormtroopers, and disgust towards the sort of so-called men who make their living as shock troops against sick and dying gardeners just trying to ease their own pain.

I do not need to be sick, to want sick and peaceful Americans to be safe from vicious thugs.

> As I'm sure you know the death penalty in the state is
> administered by lethal chemicals and not by shooting.

Lethal injection, firing squad, rabid hamsters, whatever. The end is the same.

> So I don't understand that part of your comments.

Yes you do, or you wouldn't have asked the next question.

> Just out of curiosity - do you oppose the death penalty
> for Mumia A. J.?

Irrelevant. I will not assist you to divert this thread from WAMM and the DEA to a fishing expedition.
 

FINAL Comment to Van

Van,

Your continued rants and raves about how officers enforcing the law should be shot is not worthy of discussion by any reasonable person.

I now suspect either you are following the common far Left tactic of making an outrageous claim in the hopes of swinging opinion your way by getting some weak-minded people to think what you say is half-true. Or you are an advanced example of how pot affects the brain and why it should remain illegal for most people.

Rave on.
 

LOST MONEY

It's a sad day in America when the "DEA" arrests honest people. What a waste of time ,and money.There are much better "Things", to go after,then nice folks at "WAMM".
Let's start with crack dealers or serious junkies. Heroin etc..... Why not Market street in SF? It would have been a better idea. Go Canada! Go Canada! Slam!"Smoke a FAT-ONE, and have a swell day. Remember, surf when the conditions seem appropriate.
Peace
BERKELEY, CA>"GRUELLERS"
 

blah blah blah

> Your continued rants and raves about how officers
> enforcing the law should be shot is not worthy of
> discussion by any reasonable person.

Then why are you discussing them?

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself, "What is law enforcement?" Do you know what it is?

First, what is a "law"?

Gravity, that's a law. The speed of light - there's a law for ya. Thermodynamics - an entire set of laws. You can't break these laws. Try, and you will fail.

Only gods can make laws.

Mankind does not make laws, it makes rules. And a manmade rule is nothing but a demand backed by a threat. There's nothing holy about federal law even at its best - it's just a bunch of manmade rules. Slavery at one time was legal. Burning witches was entirely within manmade "law". Hitler's entire rise to power in Germany was entirely legal. The persecution of Jews was within the law of the times.

So what is "law enforcement"?

It's doing someone else's dirty work in exchange for a paycheck.

If I rob a bank for myself, we call it robbery. If I rob a bank on behalf of an organization, we call it organized crime. If I rob a bank on behalf of the public, we call it taxation or asset seizure - we call it law enforcement. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

American democracy has become 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

The Bill of Rights? Ignored. Constitutional rights for the individual? Forgotten. People can't even name them anymore. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" isnt just a 300 year old speech by some guy in a powdered wig. It means that I dont care if 99% of the public unites behind you - so long as I leave other people alone, you leave me the fuck alone.

So long as WAMM is leaving other people alone, you leave them the fuck alone.

DEA agents have as much right to raid the WAMM farm as the general public which they supposedly represent - NONE WHATSOEVER. Furthermore, they have a legal obligation to return any property they "seize pursuant to an investigation". Will they be returning WAMM's annual marijuana crop? No, they never do. Compensating the Corrals for their lost property, since the US District Attorney has refused to press charges? Wont hapen. They attack, they destroy, they walk away calling it an "investigation", and their handlers stand back and laugh.

Asa Hutchinson should reign in and punish his rabid dog agents, but he doesnt. In fact he condones them. Ashcroft should fire the lot of them, but he won't - he promotes them. The county, state, and federal district attornies should charge, and the judges should convict and punish, Asa and his DEA gangsters, but they won't.

The Supreme Court should be bitchslapping the whole organized crime syndicate, but it won't. It condones them.

Hitler's subordinates claimed at the Nuremburg trials that "we were just following orders". They were convicted and hung just the same.

Got a problem with that? No? Then why shouldnt DEA raiders be held equally responsible for their own crimes under Adolph Hutchinson? 30 WAMM patients died last year from their own ailments. 5 in the last few weeks. These people are sick, crippled, and dropping like flies every year. Some cant even keep down their anti-nausea pills so that they can take their real prescription medication, unless they take a puff off a pipe first.

They weren't selling to ANYONE, and even if they were the money wouldn't be going to some overseas terrorist cell (unlike the CIA, already proven to be smuggling cocaine into America to covertly fund their foreign paramilitary and terrorist operations - but people don't want to hear that story).

The firefighters in NYC on 9/11 are praised as heroes - why? Weren't they "just doing their job"? Why do you extend to them praise and credit? Because they deserve it anyway, for being heroes? Then these DEA agents deserve to be reviled as villains.

Suppose an insane maniac holds a gun to my head and tells me to drive my car through a playground of little children and kill them all, or else he'll blow my head off. Can I start mowing down little Bobby and Sally, and later say "Hey, don't blame me. I had no choice. I had to kill all those kids in order to save my own skin."

We all have choice. We all deserve praise for our heroism, even if we do it for a living. And we all deserve punishment for our villany, even if we do it just for a paycheck.

>Or you are an advanced example of how pot affects the brain and why it should remain illegal for most people.

Thought crime? Innocent until proven guilty? Commerce Clause? Due process? Bill of Rights? US Constitution? Magna Carta? DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT THESE THINGS ARE?

Human society is an effort to live in accordance with more than just the inescapable laws of the jungle - it's a collection of what are effectively no more than what were once called "gentleman's agreements". It means we live by these rules not because we have to, but because we choose to in order to make a better world.

People like you Dave, and the men making their living as soldiers for the DEA, people who lack the fundamental willingness to live and fucking let live, are destroying civilization as we once knew it.

Your medieval tribal Crusader complex is your right to hold, so long as it remains your problem and only yours. But the moment you kick in someone else's door and shove a machine gun in their face simply because you can't live with something growing in their garden, you've made your problem everyone else's problem. You've made yourself the problem.

And if capital punishment is the only way to stop people like you, somebody give me the switch and I'll throw it myself.

THOSE PEOPLE WERE JUST GARDENERS WHO WANTED TO SMOKE TO LIVE AND DIE IN A LITTLE LESS PAIN, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!
 

Feel Van's Anger

>And if capital punishment is the only way to stop people >like you, somebody give me the switch and I'll throw it >myself.

Nah, you wouldn't. My anger level is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of yours, but I think you're just trying to express it in the most dramatic way. You wouldn't really off someone because they traumatized sick people with guns and stole their medicine. I really want to scream out too, but we really do need to bite down hard on our selfish anger, and focus our energy to make a powerful effective message to send to those POS's. Val said that she felt a lot of those DEA agents were going to go home and have to rethink what they were doing. No doubt due to the power of her generous spirit and loving persuasion. As much as I want to yell at those despicable *******'s, I'm willing to give her way a chance to make change.
 

STOP FEDERAL TYRANNY ONCE AND FOR ALL

I think its time that the people of California stood up to federal tyranny once and for all. I believe that the the governor should call out the National Guard to stop the federal storm troopers. If he will not, then the police forces of the cities that are being invaded (such as Santa Cruz) will have to intervene and prevent the federal assault on innocent civilians.
 

Take medical mota to Washington D.C.

Given the fact that federal law supercedes state law, and the DEA is a federal agency that is merely enforcing existing federal law as interpreted by the supreme court, marijuana activists ought to focus their attention in engaging the policy makers at that level, namely the US Congress. You see, US sovereignty and policy, despite the grotesque imagery of camoflaged armed agents confronting people in wheelchairs, does indeed extend into the beautiful, fertile hills of California! Medical dopers just need to send back a firmer message back to Washington D.C.; I thought we had a real war to fight...
 

federal law vs state law

> Given the fact that federal law supercedes state law

What part of the 10th Amendment dont you understand?

"Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Read it. Read it again. Now tell me, where does the Constitution address the issue of drug sales, drug possession, and drug use?

The official answer is the Commerce clause. It is the basis of every law written by Congress which does not have a more explicit Constitutional authority. Have you ever actually looked at it for yourself?

"Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

Quiz time:
Was WAMM engaging in commerce (commercial activity, i.e. trade or sales) with citizens of a foreign nation?

With citizens of another state?

With citizens of an Indian reservation?

NO. Every WAMM patient was a citizen of California, residing in California.

Let me spell that out for you. N - O. "No" means "no". Say it with me - nnnnnoooooooo.

Next! Was WAMM engaging in trade or sales with ANYONE? Were money or goods or services being exchanged for marijuana at WAMM?

NO! People worked in the garden, helping one another to grow plants. Those plants were then harvested and released to patients in a controlled manner to reduce exposing members to risk of robbery by criminal elements (which wouldnt BE a problem if the fucking cops would mind their own business and let the laws of supply and demand do their thing).

> the DEA is a federal agency that is merely enforcing
> existing federal law

All free-willed people are directly and wholly responsible for their own actions. ALL PEOPLE. Getting a paycheck to do someone else's dirty work does not relieve anyone of responsibility for their own actions.

Slave traders owned and even executed slaves in accordance with American colonial "law". Nazi leiutenants stormed the doors of Jewish-owned businesses and homes with the full blessings of "law". The British crown's utterly arbitrary rulings against any subject of the Empire were in full compliance with British "law".

Gravity is a law. The speed of light, the speed of sound, conservation of momentum - these are laws. Your "law" means nothing. It's an opinion, expressed by people in power, backed by a threat, written down, and held up high like some holy thing.

> as interpreted by the supreme court

.. an insitution that also once condoned the legality of slavery. They may be some of the highest legal minds in the nation, but if they don't know right from wrong they're
no better than the average Joe off the street. No, they're worse - they're ex-lawyers.

> You see, US sovereignty and policy, despite the grotesque
> imagery of camoflaged armed agents confronting people in
> wheelchairs, does indeed extend into the beautiful,
> fertile hills of California!

This isn't United States policy. This is Washington DC's policy. California is a part of the United States, and therefore its law is a part of US law as a whole. It is not federal law, but it is US law.

As for sovereignty, don't make me sick. What about California sovereignty? Why do you think each state was allowd to write its own Constitution? We're supposed to be AUTONOMOUS states, self-ruling, with the federal system in place to manage foreign relations and disputes BETWEEN the States.

That's like holding your hand over someone's mouth while you rant about YOUR right to freedom of speech. What utter bullshit.

> Medical dopers just need to send back a firmer message
> back to Washington D.C.; I thought we had a real war to
> fight...

We ARE fighting a real war - the war on drugs, which is a war on innocent Americans who are "guilty" of nothing more than engaging in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And just like Afghanistan, it's a war against people who are woefully unable to defend themselves even in their own homes.

The war on drugs is a war on unarmed, peaceful civilians. In the case of medical marijuana, it's even a war on sick and dying civilians. Which makes every drug warrior out there the lowest, most despicable, most DISHONORABLE SACK OF SHIT around.

These people are neither brave nor noble. They're not even ordinary. They're a bunch of sadistic cowards who found their calling when they were bullying kids on the playground.

All this unconstitutional drug prohibition isn't about right and wrong. It's about dominance and submission. It's about power.

-Van
 

what to do?

Hi, Great article, thanks for the info...please let me know what the status of a legalize marijuana campaign that just had a protest on the steps of the State Capitol a couple of weeks ago...want to know more...why is the state law regarding medical use of marijuana not being respected...is it in appeal in the courts right now??? any info would be greatly appreciated...thanks
 

By Betterandright@aol.com

"'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Read it. Read it again. Now tell me, where does the Constitution address the issue of drug sales, drug possession, and drug use?" By Van

According to Van's flawed reasoning, all drug laws are null and void according to the Article X of the US Constitution. If we adhere to this bogus logic, I assume that if California voters decided to legalize all drugs, heroin and speed would be fine as well.
As previously stated, despite passage of medical marijuana at the state level, medical marijuana activists can not expect that California voter will can change the law at the federal level without changing the laws originating in Washington D.C. Such laws were created and retained by your elected representatives, the predecessors of Sam Farr and his other peers in Congress. Our current congress can change those obsolete laws.
The Supreme Court has already ajudicated this issue by interpreting existing federal law. Rather than direct your anger using lame logic (such as comparing the DEA to Nazis), perhaps you ought to pressure Farr and others in Congress to recognize the respective will of state voters. Get them to write a new federal law that would respect the will of state voters retroactively.
I'm glad to antagonize Van to write his opinion in the middle of the night; however I have friends who use medical marijuana too, and I am sympathetic to their plight. I was merely offering constructive advice to apply the democratic process in a more effective manner. Obviously, Van misunderstood what I was attempting to communicate. Maybe I can get you to redirect your commentary to Sam Farr and others in Congress. Make it an election issue. Happy writing, Van
 

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