Firstly Lupita I'd like you to re-read my post carefully and see that im happy to admit Israel made mistakes...it did things for which it should apologise. By the way nice choice for generalisations about Israeli's...wonder if that tells us anything about you? Secondly I apologise for my typing error and thank you for correcting it and thirdly I asked what is has achieved, that doesn't mean the intifida is over it asks the question what has been achieved by it so far.

Jake, you've gone back to personal insults and attacks and I can't understand why really but never mind. I'm sorry that you feel there is no point in discussing issues like terrorism with me because my views are different to yours. I have at no point attempted to de-hisoricise anything, in 1948 members of the Israeli extreme did commit acts which were completly unacceptable, i've never denied this. However lets be fair about this at least for a second, if you are going to talk about pre-1948 then what about the partition plan? Why was this not even mentioned in your post?

You constantly refer to colonialism and colonial plans and I assume you are referring to the settlements. Again you've jumped in with huge generalisations, i am against settlements and like over 70% of Israeli's support full withdrawl from Gaza as a first step before withdrawing from as much of the West Bank as is possible without putting the lives of Israeli's and the state of Israel's very existence at risk.

The common argument of land theft, land grab etc is thrown again without much thought Jake. Why don't you believe that Israel will withdraw from the settlements as its in the process of doing in Gaza? Your term colonial expansion amazes me because it completly disregards the security aspect of the fence (by the way lets get this right to...less then 20% is a wall). The one around Gaza ensured 1 attack in 11 years came from there. The simple fact is that if there was no terrorism then there would be no fence, it is being built as a response to terror.

Jake in your list of assumptions you once again assert that im in a fantasy world when in fact you know nothing of my past. I wish I could take up your invitation of visiting your home but I look at what happened to the two off duty Israeli soldiers who took a wrong turn and think it might not be such a good idea (do you remember what happened to them?).

This claim of ethnic cleansing is outrageous on two levels, first Israel has never rounded up people and executed them and secondly if Israel did want to ethnic cleanse the Palestinians then it would not be doing it this way.

I wonder if you remember the alleged 'Massacre in Jenin.' It was created fiction that hundreds,thousands died when in fact it was between 40 and 50 including at least 25 militans. Now thats a terrible number and even 1 is too many but I wonder how many people know the decisions taken by the Israeli army before that operation. Instead of flying planes and helicopters over Jenin and flattening it, Israel sent in footsoldiers to minimise civilians casualties...16 Israel soldiers died due to that decision. That doesn't sound like the racist regimes which you so clearly linked with Israel does it? These comparisons are dangerous because they attempt to cause associations in the minds of people who aren't fully aware of the situation. Jake knows as well as I do the fundamental differences between Israel, Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa and the American Genocide.

Finally please don't insult my intelligence and that of other people reading your posts. You cannot say you hold Palestinians to the same standards and then being to justify it. Not to mention your justification falls when you consider history...what about the non-violence that worked so well across the world? What about negotiation? Why didn't the Palestinian people rise up earlier and demand that their leadership stop violence on both sides as they have done by voting for Abbas now?

I try to think about both sides and to accuse of living in a fantasy world is to reduce the debate down to personal attacks and I won't get involved in that. I've never lived amongst the Palestinians but I know that they are suffering terribly and that it has to end. I however see a joint responsibility for that ending between Israel and the Palestinians (represented through the PA) and don't think that holding Israel soley to blame will achieve the aims of peace and security.