Santa Cruz Indymedia :
Santa Cruz Indymedia

Re: The People Confront Racist Minutemen in Sacramento

n5667: "I believe I used that as a logical reason why perhaps property destruction/vandalism isn't a great thing. And it was only a single aspect of my argument - Congratulations on taking something out of context, joey!"

I think this illustrates one of the points I want to make quite well. My claim is that moderate liberal and conservative ideology seeks to obscure class antagonism by positing a "public interest" or "common good" as some objective measure of whether something is positive or negative.

So, for someone who wants to play this game (politics), you have to claim to represent the public interest. Now, someone who does not want to play this game (someone who takes direct action) does not seek the same support for their action, but probably sees the benefit in the target destroyed or in whatever positive ideas others may take out of the action.

Now, applying some of what I said to your other comments, it is clear that what you praise as capitalism's material wealth and technological development is not seen by everyone as the same absolute good, if only because a small percentage of people control most of that material wealth.

So, some will sing their praises to the accumulating wealth, and others have to go on strike and fight for it, steal it to survive, and in revolutionary situations, expropriate it from those who accumulate it based on the value they (as a class) produce.

So, based on the things I have said, it is clear that not much discussion on this is possible. You will appeal to politics and public opinion, I will appeal to the revolutionary potential of the exploited. And since this only exists as a potential, as a movement toward equal access to resources and an end to money, wage-labor, and commodity production, it is not a system and will produce no "system" in the sense of a state or government.

For me to explain how such a "system" (and I put this in quotes because I do not see any sort of liberated humanity as a system or state) might work and then counterpose it to capitalism so that we could debate the virtues of the various "systems" would be ridiculous, if only because we are looking for completely different things. And also because any post-capitalist society will only come into existence through struggle and not through my utopian blueprints.

And as for "communism" being represented by the states where a "Communist Party" came to power, I would only ask that you accept that I would never make such a connection. The former Soviet Union or Cuba represents no alternative to the world of wage-labor and commodity production, and this is why many communists consider such states to be capitalist. Just as fascism represented the capitalist need for a powerful militarized state after the defeat of revolutionary movements in Italy and Germany, state socialism merely represents a strategy for the development of capitalism by a ruling bureaucracy.

The Bolsheviks, for example, proved their counter-revolutionary character through the destruction of worker's self-management as represented by the factory committees and soviets, their killing and imprisonment of anarchist workers, their fight against the Makhnovist anarcho-communist peasant movement, and their fight against the rebelling workers of Krondstadt.

I do not defend or apologize for this legacy (you are used to arguing with idiots like Steve Argue who do), but rather defend the legacy of worker's councils and proletarian struggle outside and against the unions and political parties who seek to manage one or another form of capitalism.

Capitalism is not the cause of all pain and suffering. And it is incredibly adaptable, and works well for some. But it also MUST do this through war, dispossession, destruction of the earth, and MOST obviously, the production of wealth and poverty.

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