Wow! It's great to hear that some of the students at UCSC haven't been brainwashed to the point of mindless obedience. I'm glad they are able to think for themselves, dissect an argument and tell the difference between an honest scholar and a stump for racist Israel.

Apparently they've also learned the meaning of "pre-emptive strike."

That is what you are advocating, isn't it Culture Jammer?

Why go listen to something that presents a different point of view than that held by Culture Jammer (i.e. "racist" Israel)?

Since people like Culture Jammer know so much more than the people who live in Israel, it would be pointless to hear anything they have to say. I'm sure Culture Jammer is a big supporter of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade because he hates "racist" Israel so much, he joins these groups in their efforts to "drive the Jews into the sea."

(but he's not racist! He's a secular humanist!)

I'm reposting the time and place of the Itamar Marcus lecture TONIGHT (Thurs. March 10th)

since some IMC drone has removed this, I am reposting it.

What is offensive is that the Israeli government murders Palestinians all the time and it is rarely mentioned in the corporate Sentinel. Why is the tearing down of racist posters “news� when pro-racist Israel propaganda dominates the corporate press of America. Now we are to believe the murderous Israeli government is the victim? If anyone is being silenced in the United States it is those calling for human rights, an end to racist oppression, and an end to U.S. military aid to Israel.

Reposting and reposting and reposting. Itis already up in two spots at http://santacruz.indymedia.org THAT IS SPAM just like her virulent anti-Palestinian screeds are cross posted worldwide THAT IS SPAM

This is hardly spam. When the IMC monitor put the article in "other press" a person reading the original posting wouldn't know where or when Itamar Marcus is going to speak.

The reason I posted it in the first place is to give people an opportunity to attend, whether they agree or disagree.

Then , when I posted the time and place, some IMC monitor deleted my post. So I REPOSTED the time and place. This is HARDLY spam!!!

If you want to see someone who does spam with postings, repostings, and repostings---its Steve Argue!! Sometimes he reposts in the same thread!!

I don't see you criticizing him.

You must really hate Israel.

Becky:
"Since people like Culture Jammer know so much more than the people who live in Israel, it would be pointless to hear anything they have to say."
-
Wow! That's an impressive position to take, Becky. People who live there (and at least to some extent, those who go there and witness events first-hand) actually have a better idea of what is going on.

If we follow that logic, then those who know most accurately what is happening to the Palestinians would be, of course, THE PALESTINIANS. When another refugee camp is invaded, another house demolished, why give more credence to some warmonger politician in Tel Aviv, than to the victim living in the Gaza Strip?

===

And I agree with the previous poster, Becky's posting behaviors are obnoxious and I consider them a form of SPAM.

Ho HO HOE We got ourselves a real live Joseph Goebbels comin' to town...NOt only against the people of Palestine, they curry favor with the neo cons by "exposing" Palestinian support ot (horrors!) Iraqis resisting the illegal invasion of their own country!!! How dare those Palestinian "animals" urge Bagdad to defend itself!! Here is an excerpt from Ithmar Marcus's propaganda website...denouncing a video sent to support the comrades in Bagdad. A PA music video that was broadcast repeatedly during the Iraq war glorified the “heroic� fighting of the Iraqis: Be strong, Baghdad, Be strong( x3) Be strong and pressure the evil ones Don’t fear bombings and siege Pull the trigger, the despicable ones must go! Be strong Baghdad, be strong! Gee folks. Like, that is really just Verboten. How DARE those "animals" defend themselves from US-Israeli bullets bombs and missiles!! As if that was not sufficient crime, here are some more graphics denounced by the Ideologist. A poster of people melded together to form a KEY to symbolize return of theirstolen homes that Israelis currently live in. Like, that nonviolent demonstration=terror????? God save us from these neo-cons. Next thing you know they will have Kommisar Johnson directing us all into preventive detention.

1. The Key symbolizes the key to the House that My Grandfather lived in - now occupied by Israeli invaders. Non violent protest? Yes. Terrorist Violent Propaganda? Of course Not.

2. Contrasts Violence of Armed IDF Occupier with a mere key.

Non violent protest? Yes. Terrorist Violent Propaganda? Of course Not
3. A child's drawing of Palestine over her heart...all these were from Ithmar the Horrible's website, as examples of Terrorist Propaganda. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#1 -- the key--- why didn't the grandfather apply to come back? Israel had a whole bureacracy set up for displaced Palestinians who simply applied to return, showed some documentation (a deed to his house would have been MORE than sufficient) and passed a security check and he would have been returned. If he had done it soon enough, he could have gotten his old house back!! 170,000 people were returned in just this manner. If he didn't come back, then why blame Israel???
#2 propaganda --- yes terrorist? no
#3 the child's drawing of "Palestine" is actually a drawing of Israel. htis means the "child" doesnt believe Israel deserves to exist.

so what was your score, reader? did you understand why Itamar Marcus had these items posted????

The refugee crisis of the native people of Palestine is the result of a conscious and systematic policy of ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government. Two of the largest expulsions and land thefts of the native population occurred in 1948 and in 1967, but this policy of ethnic cleansing continues to this day through continued expropriations, continued economic and physical violence against the Palestinian people, and a continued denial of the right to return for the Palestinian Diaspora while new Jews from the around the world are always allowed to immigrate (and are actually welcome if they are white).

Johnson’s claim that proper documentation can remedy and reverse home expropriations by the Israeli government is false. The Israeli government rarely recognizes Palestinian documents as legitimate.

The expropriation of Palestinian homes by the racist Israeli government was recently denounced by South Africa's Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu who during his trip to Israel saw many similarities between the treatment of Blacks in South Africa under Apartheid and the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. But Johnson is blind to racism as stark as the expropriation of homes for the oppressor nationality saying, "What you call racism, is really a favoritism."

Stop ethnic cleansing! End the over 3 billion in yearly U.S. military aid to Israel! Down with U.S. imperialism!

STEVE WRITES: "The refugee crisis of the native people of Palestine is the result of a conscious and systematic policy of ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government."

BECKY: What ethnic group has been "cleansed" from either Israel or PA-controlled areas? In 1948, when JORDAN took over the West Bank, all JEWS were ethnically cleansed from there. When Israel took over in 1967 (following a defensive war!!), they didn't cleanse anyone. In fact, since 1967, the Palestinian population has tripled. Most complaints appear to be that Israel could in the future ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from the West Bank, but they haven't yet.

Also, in Israel, 20% of the population are Israeli Arabs who are Muslims and full citizens with full citizenship rights. Israel hasn't ethnically cleansed these either.

Steve made some vague claims about Black or Ethipian Jews who have experienced racism in Israel (probably true), but he has failed to tell us where any of the Jewish refugee camps are for the internally displaced Jews.

The Arab refugees in 1948 and 1967 owe their own Arab leaders for their plight. It was the Arabs that decided to wage a genocidal war against the Jews of Israel, which created the refugee problem.

I guess you blame Israel for...
a) fighting back
b) winning

"What is offensive is that the Israeli government murders Palestinians all the time and it is rarely mentioned in the corporate Sentinel. Why is the tearing down of racist posters “news� when pro-racist Israel propaganda dominates the corporate press of America. Now we are to believe the murderous Israeli government is the victim? If anyone is being silenced in the United States it is those calling for human rights, an end to racist oppression, and an end to U.S. military aid to Israel."

Because we live in a society that values freedom of speech?

Is the Israeli government a victim? No, probably not - but last time I checked, the average Israeli citizens didn't deserve to be murdered by a suicide bomber.

I can never understand how a person can have such a vapidly black and white view on pretty much any issue.

Israel was not fighting back and winning in 1948 and 1967 any more than the U.S. government was fighting back and winning against the Native Americans when it was carrying out massive ethnic cleansing here. In both cases it was pure mass murder and ethnic cleansing.

In 1948 there were 34 separate massacres of Palestinian innocents carried out by the forces that established the racist Israeli state. About 13,000 Palestinians were murdered by the Zionists. Half of all Palestinian villages were destroyed. In addition 737,166 Palestinians were forcefully evicted from their homes. This brought on the first mass exodus of at least 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland.

Becky Johnson may see this as a victory of good over evil, but most of the world rightfully sees it as a crime against humanity.

In 1967 Israel decided to attack Egypt and Syria. Even Menahem Begin, who Albert Einstein criticized for carrying out the brutal massacre at Deir Yassin in 1948, and who was a minister in the government that attacked Egypt in 1967 admitted, “In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.� (From Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle.)

In additionYitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, admitted, "I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." (Le Monde, 2/28/68)

Likewise the Israeli government of that time has also admitted to their aggression against Syria. Moshe Dayan, the Israeli Defense Minister in 1967 who gave the orders to conquer the Syrian Golan Heights, stated of the Israeli settlers, 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us." (The New York Times, May 11, 199)


Israel’s 1967 war of aggression was used by the racist Israeli government to drive 773,000 more Palestinians from their homeland.

Many other acts of aggression and ethnic cleansing continue to this day.

Today there are about 6.5 million Palestinian refugees worldwide, including about 260,000 internal refugees living in camps.

As I stated earlier:

The refugee crisis of the native people of Palestine is the result of a conscious and systematic policy of ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government. Two of the largest expulsions and land thefts of the native population occurred in 1948 and in 1967, but this policy of ethnic cleansing continues to this day through continued expropriations, continued economic and physical violence against the Palestinian people, and a continued denial of the right to return for the Palestinian Diaspora while new Jews from the around the world are always allowed to immigrate (and are actually welcome if they are white).

Johnson’s claim that proper documentation can remedy and reverse home expropriations by the Israeli government is false. The Israeli government rarely recognizes Palestinian documents as legitimate.

The expropriation of Palestinian homes by the racist Israeli government was recently denounced by South Africa's Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu who during his trip to Israel saw many similarities between the treatment of Blacks in South Africa under Apartheid and the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. But Johnson is blind to racism as stark as the expropriation of homes for the oppressor nationality saying, "What you call racism, is really a favoritism."

Stop ethnic cleansing! End the over 3 billion in yearly U.S. military aid to Israel! Down with U.S. imperialism!

To n5667:

Speaking of the rights of Palestinians does not mean that one supports suicide bombers. Nor are many Palestinians carrying out or supporting such actions against civilians. In addition it is important to differentiate between attacks carried out against civilians and those carried out against legitimate military targets. I have never offered any support to any attacks on civilians, be they Hebrew speaking or Palestinian.

We got this guy's number see Otherpress :

Ancient Divisions: Influential Israeli Itamar Marcus says he promotes peace with Palestine. But is that the case?

Just a nice liberal article from New Zealand. But if you actually go to his website, Itamar seems to select old Palestinian texts that aren't in use anymore. Many of them are perfectly fine to use anyway. That is all linked in the otherpress expose.

Even here in Santa Cruz County, some textbooks are quite out of date, and yet still in use because of budget woes. In a poor country, such as the PA, the problem is probably worse. And if the textbooks are still in use, then it's still an issue.

If the PA is inciting hatred against Jews (and Itamar Marcus' slide show of recent clips from PA State TV, music videos shown thousands of times glorifying shehade, Islamic Imam's in the mosques calling Jews "sons of pigs and apes" and saying "the whole world hates the Jews," shows that it still IS a problem.

Hate incitement in school textbooks and in the state media are specifically outlawed in Bush's Roadmap to Peace. "Trollwatch" seems to be saying that this issue has gone away, which unfortunately it has not.

"Speaking of the rights of Palestinians does not mean that one supports suicide bombers. Nor are many Palestinians carrying out or supporting such actions against civilians. In addition it is important to differentiate between attacks carried out against civilians and those carried out against legitimate military targets. I have never offered any support to any attacks on civilians, be they Hebrew speaking or Palestinian."

Well, what action could the Israeli Government take to curtail terrorist attacks against it's citizens?

As we have seen, despite a recent agreement where Israel re-opened border crossings, pulled troops out of areas, it did very little to discourage terrorists...

Perhaps if the average Palestinian showed that they didn't support the terrorists (rather than supporting them overwhelmingly) terrorism would be curtailed, and progress could be made.

Well, Becky...

I'm going to guess that they have a valid reason to hide that particular posting, cuz they sure don't hide the rest of your single-minded rants.

On the basis of the title of your hidden post, it's probably because you're accusing someone of a criminal act and you almost certainly don't have any menaingful "proof" of it.

“n5667� writes, "As we have seen, despite a recent agreement where Israel re-opened border crossings, pulled troops out of areas, it did very little to discourage terrorists..."

The biggest terrorist is the murderous and racist Israeli government. It is this government that is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the oppressed. The terror the Israeli government has carried out against the Palestinian people since its birth, and continues to carry out, will invoke a response as long as the injustice continues.

This gives lie to Johnson's false claim that Israel is the only safe haven for Jews on earth. Israel is not safe for Jews, it is a very dangerous trap created by the ethnic cleansing of the racist Zionist government. A murderous and racist anti-Arab state situated in the heart of the Arab world is a potential death trap for Jewish people that can only have socialism as a happy ending. Only a government and a system that seeks equality between races, a separation of religion and state, and seeks to meet the human and environmental needs of the entire people without capitalist profit could ever be a safe haven for any people.

"The biggest terrorist is the murderous and racist Israeli government. It is this government that is the oppressor and the Palestinians are the oppressed. The terror the Israeli government has carried out against the Palestinian people since its birth, and continues to carry out, will invoke a response as long as the injustice continues."

And their policies are largely dictated by the terrorist attacks they are the victims of... And which the Palestinians support overwhelmingly.

Neither side is innocent in this.

The Israeli's started it by invading Palestine and stealinthe land houses and water. They now live in residences that housed generations of Palestinians, who were driven out at gunpoint by the Stern Gang and other terrorist operations akin the Jewish Mafia on Steroids. Fact.

"The Israeli's started it by invading Palestine and stealinthe land houses and water. They now live in residences that housed generations of Palestinians, who were driven out at gunpoint by the Stern Gang and other terrorist operations akin the Jewish Mafia on Steroids. Fact."

Indeed, which I believe coincided with the establishment of the Israeli state *and* the immediate invasion of said Israeli state by six neighboring nations.

Perhaps if the surrounding nations hadn't tried so ardently to destroy Israel, none of this would have happened.

To say that Israel is racist against Palestinians is hard to prove - 20% of Israel's population consists of Palestinians and their ancestors who did not flee the from the land in 1948 - and while they are exempt from conscription in the IDF, many of them do serve, and some groups have even requested that they be included in the conscription.

“n5667� says, "To say that Israel is racist against Palestinians is hard to prove."

About as hard to prove the actual shape of the earth to the flat earth society, but the proof is still there and easily acquired if you are interested.

Note the repetition compulsion. The more he posts it the more he thinks people will believe it. Talking to yourself is one of the early signs of insanity.:)

Oh, ouch, what a scathing response... Glad to see you're unable to actually contradict my statement with meaningful fact.

"I can easily prove that the entire Arab Muslim world including the Palestinians are racist"

OK prove it.

Rather than write it out, these two web pages cover what I would have said, and more.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_anti-Semitism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_anti-Semitism

No you prove it with your own argument not just a click away people change wikipedia all the time anyway. prove the ENTIRE ...