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Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Prof. Paul Ortiz of UCSC's College Nine and Ten, Social Justice and Community Program presents Amy Goodman with Ruben Salazar Award for Journalism. :45
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Prof. Paul Ortiz of UCSC's College Nine and Ten, Social Justice and Community Program presents Amy Goodman with Ruben Salazar Award for Journalism. :45
 
 


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Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

thanks for posting this so fast! you are really sharp!
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

buhdum-bum ching
 

Amy's great, but.....

"What about Amy Goodman," I ask?

"She is probably the best left-wing journalist in the country" he quickly answered, "and she was smart enough to break away and establish a contract with Pacifica. She did not want to be controlled. But Amy is also violently anti-Israel. She never ceases to feature Israel's wrongdoing. Neither she nor the rest of them can leave Israel alone as the number #1 world enemy."

Read the full article at: www.phyllis-chesler.com/articles/listener-sponsored.htm

I really appreciate Amy Goodman's work on most issues. But when it comes to Israel, she's out gunning for them with any shred of criticism she can muster. Amy's grandfather was an Orthodox Rabbi, so its hard to imagine why Amy is so obsessed with villifying the same country her grandfather worked so hard to build. She has company. Noam Chomsky, Michael Lerner, Ralph Shoenman, Uri Averny are just a few anti-Israel Jews. There attacks are not fair, not balanced, and shored up with questionable "facts". It just goes to show it takes more than a Jew to give a Jewish perspective.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

This post isn't about Israel/Palestine. Take it elsewhere TROLL.
 

But it is about Amy Goodman, isn't it?

Your sacred cow is my fatted calf.

And my name is Becky Johnson. I am not a troll. I am a middle-aged educated woman who has been part of this community for 25 years and counting. Who the fuck are you?
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Hey Becky, how much money do you get from DAFKA? When you answer that, HONESTLY, I'll give up my name.
 

A Red Herring issue?

I am an unpaid volunteer for Dafka. I really don't care who you are. You've already shown you don't have enough confidence in your own ideas to put your name behind them.

Is Amy Goodman fair to Israel in her coverage?
Or does she disproportionately single out Israel for a higher standard of criticism?
Does she cover real genocide in Sudan?
 

Amy Goodman Coverage: Genocide in Sudan

 Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005
Should the Mass Killing in Sudan Be Considered a Genocide? A Debate Between Africa Action and Kofi Annan’s Adviser
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3      
Watch 128k stream       Watch 256k stream       Read Transcript

--
 
Monday, January 10th, 2005
Historic Sudan Peace Accord Marred by Ongoing Violence in Darfur
www.democracynow.org/article.pl

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Monday, December 20th, 2004
Sudanese Liberation Army Rebel Asks the World For Help Against Government Campaign of "Genocide"
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
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Friday, October 1st, 2004
Candidates Briefly Debate Sudan Policy But Where Was the Discussion of the Coup in Haiti?
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
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Friday, August 6th, 2004
Gen. Colin Powell On Why the U.S. Does Not Say Genocide Is Occurring in the Sudan
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
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Rep. Rangel Arrested in Sudan Embassy Protest We speak with New York Congressman Charles Rangel who was arrested in front of...
Wednesday, July 14th, 2004
Section: Main | Topic: "War on Terror" | Purchase Video/CD
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
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Crisis in Darfur: Powell Warns Sudan to End Militia Attacks Secretary of State Colin Powell traveled to Sudan yesterday where tens of...
Wednesday, June 30th, 2004
www.democracynow.org/article.pl
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Nice work Danielsan.

I think the word DAFKA is Hebrew for "in your face."

Dafka, Becky, Dafka!
 

Thanks for posting material on Sudan

I hope peace activists will pay attention to what is going on in Sudan. The human rights violations, the massacres, the rapes, and slavery are so much more severe than ANYTHING committed by Israel in the last 55 years.

I did a google search on the following fields:

"Amy Goodman" "Sudan" = 6, 620 hits
"Amy Goodman" "Israel" = 42,000 hits
"Amy Goodman" "Palestine" = 50,700 hits

I think this is plenty of proof that Amy Goodman is obsessed with villifying Israel and ignoring much more egregious human rights abuses in Sudan.
Note, she gives more credence to "Palestine" which doesn't even exist today, than to the legitimate State of Israel which was founded in 1948.

Here is another link where Goodman accuses Israel of genocide: www.democracynow.org/article.pl

Here she ONLY interviews the parties which are accusing Arial Sharon of genocide way back in 1982. She does NOT present the Israeli side.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

BJ, spews forth:
"I did a google search on the following fields:

"Amy Goodman" "Sudan" = 6, 620 hits
"Amy Goodman" "Israel" = 42,000 hits
"Amy Goodman" "Palestine" = 50,700 hits

I think this is plenty of proof that Amy Goodman is obsessed with villifying Israel and ignoring much more egregious human rights abuses in Sudan."

This is proof only of what lengths you will go to VILLIFY anyone who disagrees with you.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

"much more egregious human rights abuses in Sudan."

You call yourself a peace activist, yet you categorize human rights violations, from bad to worse? You can't rank human rights violations that way and call yourself an advocate of "peace." That's fucked up logic. The crimes committed by the Israeli military, are the moral equivalent to the crimes committed by the Janjaweed militia. If its wrong for the Janjaweed to engage in genocide, so too, it is wrong for the Israelis.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

BJ: Here is another link where Goodman accuses Israel of genocide: www.democracynow.org/article.pl

Wow, imagine that. A news reporter covering the news. The headline is from Nov. 2001, and the story that week was "Palestinians Sue Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for Genocide." We learn that the plaintiffs are survivors or families of victims of the hundreds of Palestinians massacred in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982. *They* accuse Sharon of responsibility in massacres. No, Amy diid'nt "accuse Israel of genocide," her guests did. That's the job of a good reporter, to give voice to those WE ALMOST NEVER HEAR FROM. In the story linked to by BJ, Amy Goodman interviews, Chibli Mallat, one of the lawyers representing the Palestinians suing Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for genocide, and Wadha Sabeq, survivor of the massacre who lost fifteen members of her family. I know how to use google, too. I searched Google News, for both of Goodman's guests on that show, to see what other news outlets used them as a source. Guess what? Google News returned ZERO hits.... Thank you to Amy, and The DN! Crew, for constantly giving voice to these folks we'd never hear from otherwise. Please keep it up!
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Citing the number of google hits you find on something is basically meaningless as we can all read our own meanings into it.

First of all, your figures were a lot different than mine. I got:

"Amy Goodman"+Sudan=5,330
"Amy Goodman"+Israel=44,900
"Amy Goodman"+Palestine=24,400

What does this mean? Well, it could mean that a lot of bloggers are picking up Amy's articles and reposting them on the Internet. It could also mean that the "fake news" sites like frontpagemag are rehashing and twisting her reports like I've seen them do before.

It could also mean that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on longer and therefore has more coverage. It could also mean that there are plenty more "Amy Goodman"s out there (besides the one on Democracy Now!) and that quite a few live in Israel. (Seems plausible to me. She's Jewish and her first and last name are fairly common.)

Citing google hits as proof of something is worthless.
 

Google does have it's limitations

I wouldn't say Google is worthless, but you are right, those hits could be interpreted in different ways, and not all of them are OUR Amy Goodman.

The only way to settle this, is for someone (not me) to go thru all of Amy's past shows, find out how many have an anti-Israel bias, and then go over all of her coverage of Sudan to date and count those shows. I would recommend just going back since Sept. 2000 when the intifada began, because Sudan was already a big issue then too.

You see, I've listened to Amy Goodman for years and have heard dozens and dozens of shows where she provides a forum for people who have some criticism of Israel. Rarely do I find her to balance these shows out with an Israeli viewpoint. I have heard precious little on Sudan.

So before I even began my google search, I was pretty darn sure what I would find. I personally don't need any more evidence to convince me that Amy Goodman has a bias against Israel and she uses her show to propagate that bias.

Now everyone has a bias. I have a bias. But for you to DENY that Amy Goodman has NOT presented show after show after show with anti-Israel guests is for you to deny reality.

As for Sudan, she has not done nearly enough considering the magnitutude of the tragedy. My guess is that Arab on Arab violence has no potential to bash Israel with.

A reader wrote: "If its wrong for the Janjaweed to engage in genocide, so too, it is wrong for the Israelis."

BECKY: The difference is, the Janjaweed ARE committing genocide and the Israelis aren't.

from: the NYT

October 16, 2004

UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 15 - The United Nations health agency said Friday that the death toll in refugee camps in the Darfur region of Sudan had reached 70,000, and that people would continue dying at the rate of 10,000 a month.

From: www.ifamericansknew.org

3,587 Palestinians and 1,042 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

So in the current conflict (started by the Palestinians!!)after four and a half YEARS, 4,629 people have been killed on both sides. While in Sudan,70,000 have died and its 10,000 a month in addition. Moral equivalence? You've got to be joking.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

All this is really subjective, Becky. What you call anti-Israel, I call pro-peace.
 

Goodman is Lazy. She doesn't do enough.

"As for Sudan, she has not done nearly enough considering the magnitutude of the tragedy. My guess is that Arab on Arab violence has no potential to bash Israel with."

It is a HUGE oversimplification to characterize the conflict in Sudan as "Arab on Arab." This kind of gross simplification seems strange juxtaposed with the legitimate media criticism and really interesting dialogue that you seem to want to facilitate here.

Google searches are based on paid sponsors, # of searches/page views, and other factors that have nothing to do with true statisitical evidence or research.

I scoff at the suggestion that Amy Goodman "has not done nearly enough." Producing a daily radio show that is world-renowned as *one* of the leading independent news programs, expanding to TV and streaming video, traveling to the Central African Republic to be with Aristide as he returned post-coup, writing a book (the Exception to the Rulers), traveling around the country visiting radio and TV stations, schools, and doing speaking engagements,...

And *YOU* have the nerve to say she hasn't done enough? Wow.
 

We expect Goodman to give us a fair perspective

If you are going to quote me, quote me.

I said: "As for Sudan, she has not done nearly enough considering the magnitutude of the tragedy."

When you took my words out of the context I had placed them in, you changed the meaning. Yes, she has produced a large body of work. Yes, she has reported on a wide range of topics giving a perspective we don't get from the corporate media. And yes, I appreciate this aspect of her work as well. But she is also carrying a special grudge against Israel, and her over-reporting of relatively minor concerns (people had to wait at a checkpoint, people had to get permission to go thru a gate to get to their olive orchard, etc.) while failing to even interview similar harmed parties on the Israeli side is biased, lopsided, and bad reporting. It leads her audience to villify Israel while glorifying the Palestinian cause. Did she report a massacre in Jenin? Did she ever come clean and report that there wasn't one?
 

Sorry Becky, But You're a TROLL.

Becky,

We ALL know your position re: Israel/Palestine.

You've told us a million fucking times.

It's boring. You're boring.

You're not going to change our minds and we're not going to change yours. So why don't you go somewhere where people think your opinions are interesting and/or fresh, m'kay?

When you just say the same offensive tripe over and over and over and over again, then it doesn't really matter if you're "a middle-aged educated woman who has been part of this community for 25 years and counting," -- you're STILL a troll.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Becky, for you to claim as evidence of Amy Goodman's anti-Israel stance the number of references she's made to Palestine / Israel, compared to the Sudan, is ABSURD.

The former situation has been going on for 50 YEARS, is the fallout of the last WORLD WAR, and continues to be a very high-profile event of which there is comparably far greater established awareness in the general public than this recent Sudan thing that only recently came onto the American radar.

You'll resort to any stretch of the imagination, it seems. Any twist of logic, any crackpot reasoning, or slippery slope.

You're a nut.

If you said the sky was blue, I'd peek outside the window to double check. You can't be trusted, because you clearly have no concern for reality, and see the world entirely through the lens of your religious devotion to your desert tribe.

"My country, right or wrong" the American patriots used to chant in their liturgy of blind faith. You act just like them, only your loyalty is to a country which isn't even your host.

Do you even call yourself an American, Becky, or do you consider yourself a field agent for Israel who is simply working on foreign soil?
 

If you can't win an argument, throw mud

I think I have CLEARLY demonstrated that Amy Goodman has under-reported the genocide in Sudan and over-reported human rights concerns which are critical of Israel.

Why you deny even your own experience on this, is a mystery to me.

And you call me a crackpot? You accuse me of blind faith in Israel, but then expect me to respect your own blind faith in Amy Goodman.

I don't think all your name-calling is helpful or advances the dialogue, but go ahead and knock yourself out if you must.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Israel is a woman hating patriarchy.

The ancient Hebrews wiped out the peaceful Goddess worshipers, killed the men and boys and raped and enslaved the girls.

Webster's Dictionary defines patriarchy as
"Social development characterized by supremacy of the father in the clan or family in domestic and religious functions" and "Control by men of a disproportionately large share of power."

"Gods" of Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism and Shintoism were created by men in their own image. Many are jealous, vengeful, and egocentric.

Archaeological evidence proves patriarchal barbarians began slaughtering Goddess worshipers and enslaving women 6,000 years ago (The Chalice and the Blade -Riane Eisler).

Concerning one of Israel's super -heroes, Moses said, "Kill every male among the little ones, kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. Women who have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Old Testament, Numbers Ch: 31 verses 17, 18). Cattle, donkeys, sheep, and women are war "booty" (Numbers Ch: 31, verse 35).
In addition to thousands of years of physical violence, spiritual violence ("god's" punishment) is required to control women. Men wrote scripts (scripture) for their cosmic sock puppets whose oinkings include men's "god given" right to trash Nature and dominate women.
"The husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the church."— Ephesians 5:23-24. "A woman must never be free of subjugation."— Hindu code of Manu V. "Your women are fields to cultivate, go to your field as you will."— Koran 2:223. "I thank thee O lord, that thou has not created me a heathen, a slave, or a woman."— Orthodox Jewish prayer.

Anyone who believes in a giant invisible cosmic cop who created the universe, yet gives a shit about whether or not a bunch of naked monkeys worships "him" needs to be committed to a mental asylum. (I am a jealous god yak yak blah blah.

Belief in god is as childish as it is insane. No wonder the world is screwed up. Most humans beliveve in the giant cosmic wazoo in the sky—who always has the same agenda as men. Gee what a coincidence.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Amy Goodman does report the under-reported stories. But she also seems to follow the same creed as the rest of the media: ie if it bleeds it leads. Is there any chance that she could save some of that suspense for the end of the show or have at least one show a week where she does not lead off with "car bomb in..." or "suicide bomber blew himself up..." or "another soldier dies in Iraq...". I don't listen to every show, so if I missed one or more of that type of show point it out to me. Thanks.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Bush Wraps Up European Trip
President Bush is back in the United States after wrapping up his European tour. The multi-country trip was a tightly scripted affair and large demonstrations against Bush were kept far away from any of the official events. Last night, Bush met for two hours with Russian president Vladimir Putin in Bratislava, Slovakia. At a press conference after the summit, Bush criticized Russia on issues of freedom of the press, freedom of dissent and protection of minorities. The Russian press blasted Bush's comments as hypocritical. At yesterday's press conference, Bush made what were perhaps his most extensive comments on his view of the media. In the closing speech of his four days of meetings, Bush celebrated the upheavals in Ukraine and Georgia, where Moscow and Washington were on opposing sides. Bush also predicted similar events would take place in Belarus and in Moldova, the poorest country in Europe and the only one governed by a communist party. It goes to the polls next week.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Bush's Uncle Makes $450K Off Iraq War
The war in Iraq has helped President Bush's uncle make at least $450,000 in war-related profits. This according to a report in the Los Angeles Times. William Bush - who is known to the president as Uncle Bucky - sits on the board of the St. Louis-based defense contractor Engineered Support Systems. The company supplies armor and other materials to U.S. troops. The company's stock prices have soared to record heights since the invasion, in part because it received no-bid contracts to rapidly refit fleets of military vehicles with extra armor. Last month William Bush exercised options on over 8,000 shares of company stock. He made around $450,000 on the deal. William Bush joined the company's board in 2000 before his nephew was elected and claims he hasn't used his family's connections to help win contracts. But a spokesperson to the company admitted to the Los Angeles Times "Having a Bush doesn't hurt." William Bush's older brother is the former President George H.W. Bush. The company has been openly admitted that the country's ongoing wars has helped business. In its quarterly earnings report a year ago, the company's Vice Chairman and Chief Executive said: "The increasing likelihood for a prolonged military involvement in Southwest Asia by U.S. forces well into 2006 has created a fertile environment for the type of support ... products and services that we offer."
 

Islamic countries aren't women-hating patriarchys?

Putting aside belief in God as a personal issue of faith, I wonder if Amazon Woman considered comparing how women are treated in Israel to how women are treated in almost any Islamic country.

In Israel, women are doctors, lawyers, scientists, Ministers of the Knesset, and Golda Meir was one of the first female world leaders.

Women can vote, own property, have access to birth control and abortion, and can use the courts to sue if they are sexually harassed or discriminated against because they are women. Lesbians can live openly without fear.

In most Muslim societies, women are chattel. They may not leave their home without being escorted by a male relative. In many Muslim countries, Arab women cannot vote. In Saudi Arabia, women are prohibited from driving a car.
Women can be locked up against their will, beaten without interference by the police or courts, and even killed in "honor killings" which are rarely prosecuted.

In Nigeria, if a woman has a child out of wedlock, she is buried in dirt up to her head, and they throw stones at her head until she is dead.

In Sudan, women are routinely raped by the hundreds and can be sold into slavery.

Palestinian women are expected to raise their children to become shehadas or suicide bombers. These same women are expected to express joy when their child is "martyred". If they grieve, it must be done in private.

Yes, Israel does have its problems with patriarchial men. For instance, Orthodox women cannot divorce their husbands. Only the husband can divorce her by issuing a "get". However, secular Jewish women can and do divorce their husbands all the time.

Traditionally, Judaism has property transfer through the women. Also, a child born to a Jewish mother is Jewish ---even if she had sex outside of marriage and with a non-Jew!!

So her child is accepted into the community. In Islamic countries, she might be murdered for this and her child stigmatized.

Judaism is not perfect when it comes to womens' rights, but it is light years ahead of Islam.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

"Judaism is not perfect.... but it is light years ahead of Islam."

This statemment typifies a line of thought which is akin to, "you aren't like me, so you must be destroyed." This way of thinking is dangerous and symptomatic of fear, racism, and paranoia. Watch out for this Becky Johnson character.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, Shintoism and Christianity are all male-supremacist organized religions (organized by and for men)

Any woman who thinks "god" said men have the right to control women and use them for cheap labor and baby machines needs to consider the source of these "gods" and to ask herself why "gods" agenda is male supremacist.

The only difference in the various religious patriarchies is the length of the leash women are on- and the cruelty of the man holding the leash. The Islamic leash is shorter than the Jewish leash!

Big Freakin Deal! A leash is a leash! Women at the wailing wall must pray separate from the men. Whats their problem with women? Are they afraid their gonna get cooties or something? A Hebrew hang up is that women are basically unclean. What a joke!

Moses was a bloodthirsty sexist psychopath who told his soldiers to rape all the girls and to kill all the women "who have lain with a man" and to kill the men, boys and even the farm animals of the villages him and his desert savages destroyed

Its time for women to make their own decisions about how to live their lives and to stop listening to male supremacist jerks.

Unfortunately, the men who are NOT male supremacists and who choose NOT to boss women around have not yet increased in sufficient numbers to end war and sexism.
 

Becky Johnson Supports The Repression Of Women

Johnson says, "Judaism is not perfect.... but it is light years ahead of Islam." Putting her xenophobia against Islam aside for a minute: She seems to forget that large numbers of Palestinians are Christians and that the nationality also includes atheists. Likewise at the time of the founding of the Zionist state there were Palestinian Jews that faced the racist persecution of the Zionist state as well.

In addition, in a racist manner, she likes to somehow link the anti-woman crimes of pro-imperialist capitalist countries like Nigeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt to the Palestinian people. Yet she refuses to join the calls of human rights activists to end U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of these countries. This makes Becky Johnson MORE responsible for those repressive governments than those who suffer under them.

The U.S. military, American oil corporations, and Islamic governments all conspire together to subjugate and rob the people of the Mid and Far East their resources and labor. While U.S. military aid helps prevent change; U.S. backed coups, U.S. bankrolled insurrections, and outright U.S. invasions have destroyed every government in the region that had more progressive policies towards women, yet she would have us believe that it is the Arabs that are to blame.
 

And On The Subject of the Oppression of Women...

Good points, Steve. And to your list of conspirators I would add all of the military dealers, like Lockheed-Martin, who have everthing to gain from keeping the Middle East as-is. The whole system reminds me a lot of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, which, because of a reinforcing closed system, was extremely difficult to stop.

I think that Amazon Woman is essentially correct when she asserts that we are basically arguing about the length of a leash women are kept on. However, I will remind Becky that when you mention "Islamic" you are talking about a wide variety of cultures and regions. When has the U.S. or Israel had a *female* as the head of their country lately? Pakistan and Indonesia have. In Iraq and prerevolution Iran, women were very powerful and totally integrated into the working sphere.

I also think it is amusing that many make a big deal about the head coverings worn by Muslim women when we are not *also* attacking the sexist, patriarchal controls forced on women throughout this country in the form of dress and grooming standards in the workplace. Across the United States women are forced to dress in shoes that cripple their body, in many cases bringing on arthritis and deformed feet before the age of thirty. In addition, businesses are FORCING women to wear makeup and have "hairdos" (=cancer nests) who were previously hired *without* them! This is a direct attack on the well-being of women in the so-called progressive countries, particularly in light of rock solid evidence of the carcinogenic effects of most health and beauty products.
 

Steve Argue doesn't want to answer what he already knows

Steve cherry-picks my words again. (see above) because he doesn't want to deal with what I say.


"Judaism is not perfect when it comes to womens' rights, but it is light years ahead of Islam."

So Steve, answer me this. Do women have a better quality of life, more access to medical care, more access to choice in family planning, more opportunities in education ( as determined by the literacy rates of women in the different countries in which Islam is the majority religion? )more access to upper level management jobs, are treated equals with men in court, and can live openly as Lesbians without govt. reprisal in Israel than they are in any Islamic country?

Tell us about Sharia, Steve.

Tell us about the law of the land in countries dominated by Islam.

You claim that you are a history expert. Can you tell us the history of Sharia, and how it means a woman who does not wear the hijab can be beaten 100 lashes?
 

Jewish law vs Islamic Sharia---there is no contest as to which is more sexist

I asked a Rabbi why Orthodox Jews separate men and women in synagogues and at the Western Wall. He said its basically so men are not distracted by their natural attraction to women. The idea is that the men should focus on their prayers and not the pretty lady next to them.

I don't see this as inherently sexist (its not done because women are inferior to men) though its not my cup of tea.

FREEDA WRITES: "I also think it is amusing that many make a big deal about the head coverings worn by Muslim women when we are not *also* attacking the sexist, patriarchal controls forced on women throughout this country in the form of dress and grooming standards in the workplace."

First, you assume I have not spoken out about the prejudice against women if they do not wear make-up, have their hair styled, or dress in some different, expensive clothing every day in the workplace. I am a long-time feminist, have read Naomi Wolf's excellent book "The Beauty Myth" in which she explains how the whole diet industry, and plastic surgery are built on women's bodies ---and by shaming women for how their bodies are naturally.

But you have changed the subject completely. The issue I raised is to rate the treatment of women living either under Jewish law or Israeli law, against women living in countries in which Islam and sharia are the law.

Yes, being forced to cover up large parts of your body, as though it is too terrible to be seen with the human eye, in extremely hot countries, and under penalty of law IS a big deal. In Saudia Arabia a few years back, a fire at a girls dormitory resulted in a number of deaths of the girls when they ran out of the burning building without their head coverings, AND WERE SENT BACK INTO THE FIRE !!

I'm sorry, but I don't find anything about forcing women to wear the hijab is "amusing."

STEVE'S weak argument vaunted in his title but completely unsupported in his commentary contained this gem:

"In addition, in a racist manner, she likes to somehow link the anti-woman crimes of pro-imperialist capitalist countries like Nigeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt to the Palestinian people."

I was talking about Islam vs Judaism,and how women's lives compare under each system, Steve.

The common thread, in all the countries you named, is they are primarily Islamic countries.
If this makes me a racist for pointing it out, then you have a funny definition of what a racist is.

My usual criticism is that Steve Argue and others spend a disproportionate time condeming Israel at every bend and turn, while ignoring much more egregious human rights violations taking place in Islamic countries.
 

Johnson's Problem Is With The People, Not The Governments

Becky Johnson lies to people by claiming, “My usual criticism is that Steve Argue and others spend a disproportionate time condeming [sic] Israel at every bend and turn, while ignoring much more egregious human rights violations taking place in Islamic countries.?

It is I, not her, which calls for an end to U.S. military aid to the puppet governments in Nigeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. I also, unlike her, call for an end to the racist crimes against the Palestinian people by Israel. She on one hand denies these crimes take place and on the other argues that they are justified by the horrid beliefs and customs of the Palestinian people.

Becky Johnson says, "I was talking about Islam vs. Judaism, and how women's lives compare under each system, Steve."

Hey STUPID, Islam and Judaism are not systems they are religions. Capitalism and imperialism are the systems in power in Israel and the countries you like to denounce. I oppose these injustices everywhere, while you support these injustices everywhere by supporting U.S. military aid, aims, and objectives.

Your refusal to oppose U.S. military aid to any of the repressive governments of the Mid and Far East shows that you are arguing that exact line of the state department.

OK Johnson, I am sick of humoring you like you actually have something to say that is worth refuting. As I stated in another thread:

The poverty created by capitalist imperialism on a world scale combined with an insane drive for profit by the capitalists leaves us in a world where outright slavery is not a thing of the past and where sexism is still alive and well.

Capitalism is a system of legalized exploitation, discrimination, war, oppression, and environmental degradation. In this capitalist world enough food is produced but people go hungry. We work if we are lucky, but the riches produced by our labor go into the pockets of the wealthy. Yet it is the working class youth that are sent to go fight and die so that U.S. oil monopolies can get direct control trillions of dollars worth of oil under the Iraqi sand. Meanwhile those same capitalists use their control of the government and the economy to keep the U.S. economy dependent on detrimental fossil fuels. In doing so the capitalists have brought on global warming, an environmental and human catastrophe that has only just begun.

Just as the main classes of the capitalist countries are divided between the interests of the capitalist class and its drive for profits at the expense of the working class, the interests of the world are divided between those of the weak, poor, and subjugated nations on the one hand and the interests of the capitalist classes of the rich imperialist countries on the other.

While the working class of the capitalist countries around the world often face clubs, tear gas, and even bullets and torture chambers for organizing to assert our interests against those of the capitalists; So to do the leaders of the weaker capitalist countries face the wrath of the imperialist capitalist class when they try to assert their power to control their own resources.

In the 1970s Iraq nationalized its oil fields. This helped the Iraqi people by taking a chunk of the profits made off of oil out of the hands of the international oil monopolies and instead keeping them in Iraq. This money helped pay for free healthcare and education. As such this was a socialist measure carried out by Saddam Hussein’s capitalist government. It was also a measure that stood up to the interests of the rich and powerful nations. For both reasons socialists supported the nationalization of Iraqi oil while those measures infuriated the imperialists.

This is the essence of the U.S. war against Iraq and Sudan. Sudan is a country that stood up to the murderous and anti-democratic U.S.-Anglo invasion of Iraq.

Ignoring all of this radical Zionist Becky Johnson has been calling for war and occupation against Sudan. Now here she states on Sudan, "Sadly, since much of this is Arab on Arab violence and oppression, very few people in the world seem to give a damn."

Yeah right, Becky Johnson cares about "Arab on Arab" violence like American anti-black racists care about "Black on Black" violence and how Apartheid South Africa warned of "Black on Black" violence if Apartheid was destroyed.

While Becky Johnson bangs the drums for an invasion of Sudan, she refuses to join the calls of human rights activists for an end to billions of dollars in U.S. aid to the repressive regimes in Egypt, Jordan, and Israel.

The U.S. government started the current destabilization program against Sudan after they opposed the first U.S. war against Iraq to save America's repressive oil puppet monarchy in Kuwait. They are the cause of the war and should get out of Sudan now.

The U.S. never solves human rights problems through invasions. U.S. imperialism is guilty of many crimes, from the murder of 3 million Vietnamese with the U.S. war in Vietnam, to hunger, as well as the degradation of the planet itself.

America’s so-called concern for human rights can be seen in the past US interventions in Iraq. Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath Party first came to power in 1963. Immediately after taking power, based on lists provided by the CIA, they rounded up 5,000 leftists and trade-union leaders and murdered them. After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait we were shown pictures of Iraqi Kurds killed by poison gas in the U.S. media. What we were not told is why the US was silent when this was happening and the fact that the US supplied the gas to kill the Kurds and to kill Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war. While we are now told of the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people we are not told of how the Turkish government is carrying out the same policies of genocide against the Turkish Kurds, and doing it with U.S. weaponry.

Now with over 100,000 Iraqis dead, and climbing, Becky Johnson would have us believe that an occupation of Sudan would solve their problems. Nonsense.

Likewise U.S. imperialism will never solve the question of women’s liberation in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter. Women’s rights to the extent they have been gained in the United States have come about as a result of struggle against the U.S. government by the women’s rights movement that was born out of the radicalization against the U.S. war in Vietnam.

Unlike the US supported governments and forces in the Arab World, Iraqi women before the U.S. invasion had many rights found nowhere else in the Arab World except in the Asian republics of the former Soviet Union. Over 50% of Iraqi doctors were women. Iraqi women were allowed to walk unescorted in the streets. They were allowed to drive. Iraqi women could even freely criticize men. In addition Iraqi women had the right to work and control their own funds. This is in stark contrast to the treatment of women under the repressive U.S. backed governments of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia where women have no rights what-so-ever.

The U.S. ruling class hates governments like Libya, Venezuela, and the former government of Iraq who use(d) the profits of their oil resources partly to benefit the people with social programs. Likewise they love governments like that of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait that strip the people of all their rights and keep the oil profits in the hands of the international oil monopolies and their corrupt local servants. Today in the United States we face unemployment, homelessness, and a lack of health care. The billions of dollars the U.S. is squandering on killing Iraqis to steal their resources should be spent to benefit the working class and poor of the United States.

For the cancellation of the third world debt to stop the theft of resources by the rich countries against the poor! Abolish the World Bank and IMF. Abolish child labor and slavery around the world! Pass the ERA!

End U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Nepal, Columbia, and Israel! U.S. hands off of Venezuela, Sudan, Syria, Iran, Cuba, and North Korea! U.S. Troops Out Of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Haiti!

Instead of waging war and exploitation on the world, let us follow Cuba’s model of sending doctors and humanitarian aid!
 

Socialist blatherings, unfounded accusations, and failure to answer my question

STEVE WRITES:"Hey STUPID, Islam and Judaism are not systems they are religions."

BECKY: I think the readers will be ultimate judge of who is stupid and who is lying. It will be difficult to educate you since you are already so smart. Islam is a religion. But some Islamic countries practice Sharia, or Islamic law.

Likewise in Judaism, Orthodox Jews are allowed to be judged by Jewish law rather than Israeli law. You were probably unaware of this when you called me stupid.

WHAT ABOUT SHARIA STEVE?????
WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION????

WHY DON'T YOU SHARE YOU EXPERTISE WITH US???
 

Johnson: Arm The Dictators, Blame The People

O.K. Becky, you refuse to call for an end to U.S. military support to the capitalist countries that impose Islamic law or those that impose Zionist genocide, but I do on both counts.

What was that point about Sharia? Oh, sorry, I guess you have no point except to say that Arabs are evil and that the U.S. should continue to prop up governments that oppress Arabs and impose Islamic law as well as propping up those that persecute people for simply being Palestinian.

Johnson, your love for U.S. imperialism is touching, perhaps they will give you an opposite award to the Ruben Salazar, like an Arab skull of a child murdered by the policies you defend.
 

The Funny Part

Johnson says some blatantly obvious and well-known things about Islamic and Judaic law but leaving them entirely out of the context of imperialism as I've laid out and then states, "You were probably unaware of this when you called me stupid."
 

And how big is the Jewish empire Steve?

STEVE WRITES: "What was that point about Sharia? Oh, sorry, I guess you have no point except to say that Arabs are evil and that the U.S. should continue to prop up governments that oppress Arabs and impose Islamic law as well as propping up those that persecute people for simply being Palestinian."

BECKY: The point about Sharia, or Islamic law, is that the status of women is reduced to that of cloistered women, unable to have ANYTHING going on in their lives their husbands (or sometimes their sons) don't approve of. This is not some theoretical point, in order to win an argument, but the crushing reality for 60 million Muslim women.

You ridicule the Jews for belief in God, but when the Palistinian Authority passes their constitution in 2003 which declares that Sharia or Islamic law will the law of the land in the new State of Palestine (should it ever come into being) that doesn't even raise a bump on your radar screen. You use the word "evil" which is a religious concept and infer I said that Arabs are evil which I have never said and do not believe.

You never answered my question but have the nerve to accuse me of being a child-murderer as your response????

I have not said one way or another yet what I would advise my congressional leaders to do about funding in Arab countries. Some of that is undoubtedly humanitarian aid. When I have done enough research so I feel I can give an informed opinion, I will be happy to do so. Do not assume that simply because I have not "joined you" to call for cutting this funding means I am totally in favor of it. Its not a black-white situation.

Steve, you really have lost it. Your grasp on reality is gone, you're spewing venomous insults and posting fake documents and bad photo-shop "evidence" rather than contributing to an educated dialogue that could inform and involve Indyreaders. You are more interested in winning an argument than in finding out the truth.

What, your ego can't handle being wrong?
 

More Johnson Lies

None of the photos I have posted have been doctored. Johnson’s support for the murder of peace activist Rachel Corrie by the Israeli government and her absurd accusations that the photos were doctored is a good example of her inexcusable and seemingly inexhaustible hate and lies.

On U.S. imperialism crimes against the Arab people Johnson has repeatedly defended the billions of dollars in military aid the U.S. sends to the repressive governments of Egypt and Israel.

In addition for months, until now, she has refused to respond to repeated direct questions regarding U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and others. Now she responds with the absurd claim that not all of what we are talking about is military aid. While there is economic aid to these puppet regimes, I specifically stated, and was specifically referring to, what all government parties involved refer to as U.S. military aid. Johnson, you cannot weasel out of this by redefining military aid as “humanitarian?.

In addition Johnson is accusing me of not answering some question of hers. Even though I am under no obligation to do so I have answered her questions directly. But, alas, Johnson isn’t very smart and needs things spelled out for her. Johnson, please re-ask your question and I will explain it to you.
 

I'm sure the readers know what the question is

But I will repeat if for you since you just can't seem to address it even tangentally.

COPIED FROM ABOVE: "Do women have a better quality of life, more access to medical care, more access to choice in family planning, more opportunities in education ( as determined by the literacy rates of women in the different countries in which Islam is the majority religion? )more access to upper level management jobs, are treated equals with men in court, and can live openly as Lesbians without govt. reprisal in Israel than they are in any Islamic country?"

Steve? We are all waiting for you to educate people like me who are so "stupid."
 

Racist Israel Has Nothing To Offer The Women Of The Region Except More Bloodshed

Like I said, I have already answered this question, but I will explain it a little more for you Becky.

"The U.S. military, American oil corporations, and Islamic governments all conspire together to subjugate and rob the people of the Mid and Far East their resources and labor. While U.S. military aid helps prevent change; U.S. backed coups, U.S. bankrolled insurrections, and outright U.S. invasions have destroyed every government in the region that had more progressive policies towards women, yet she would have us believe that it is the Arabs that are to blame."

"In addition, in a racist manner, she likes to somehow link the anti-woman crimes of pro-imperialist capitalist countries like Nigeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt to the Palestinian people. Yet she refuses to join the calls of human rights activists to end U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of these countries. This makes Becky Johnson MORE responsible for those repressive governments than those who suffer under them."

Soviet Central Asia had the most advanced status for women's rights in the region. The billions of dollars the U.S. poured into funding the Islamic holy war against women's rights and literacy in Afghanistan not only created the worst regime for women's rights in the world, it also aided in bringing on the capitalist counter-revolution in the Soviet Union. This has brought on a situation where healthcare, education, women's rights, and life expectancy have all dramatically declined in what was Soviet Central Asia.

U.S. intervention has created, and keeps in power, governments throughout the region that are hostile to women’s rights. Blaming Arabs for male governments that do not treat women well is like blaming the Croatian people for the Ustashi government of Nazi occupation. Ultimately Tito united the different nationalities and led the popular communist revolution against Nazi occupation that created Yugoslavia.

Ending U.S. military aid to all of the repressive regimes in the Mid and Far East would aid the people of the region in making their own revolutions against their oppressors. To the degree these revolutions are secular and socialist, women’s rights will advance. Within this context capitalist Israel with its racist hate for all who are not European Jews, has nothing to offer the women of the region except more bloodshed.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Steve, I support most of what you say about socialism and capitalism. I think the US should end all military aid to and invasions of the Middle East, among other places. This may result in some weird backlash such as Middle Eastern countries all starting to sell oil using the Euro and thus crashing the value of the US dollar and the US economy along with it. But that may be the price to pay for true freedom in the middle east.

However, there are two points from your side which could be loosely characterized as too good to be true. First, I have looked at the alleged photos of Rachel Corrie published on the veterans for peace website. The picture that shows Rachel and her companion standing between the bulldozer and the house is clearly doctored. Both people's feet are missing, at the mid calf, not at the ankle as would be expected if they were burried in bushes or grass. Also, this photo is "too good to be true" in that it was taken before an unforseen event/accident. That is like having a before picture of an approaching car in a car crash. I'm not saying that the RC event was not "hit and run", but to publish a "before" picture of the event strains credibility.

The other bit of evidence that is too good to be true or questionable is the Einstein letter. Becky claims that this was dug out of the microfilm library of the NY times stored at UCLA and exists nowhere else. I would suggest pointing out other sources of Einstein's views on Israel/Palestine that he may have published or written at the same time as the alleged letter was allegedly written if you want to truly support your case. Or can you at least show that there are missing pages from the microfilm files of the other locations where the letter is not present, or that the pages are numbered consecutively as expected in the UCLA file?
 

I See Nothing Doctored

1_rachel.jpg
1_rach1.jpg
1_Corrie2.jpg
largerachfront.jpg
I see nothing doctored in these photos.

John Thielking says, "This photo is "too good to be true" in that it was taken before an unforeseen event/accident. That is like having a before picture of an approaching car in a car crash."

Photos are not a rare thing at protests, especially those involving civil disobedience. A before and after picture would be expected.

Johnson's claim was that the photos were doctored because two of the bulldozers were different bulldozers taken at different times of day. While she was correct about different bulldozers at different times of day, this proved nothing because this fact was already explained by the photographers. She took part in more than one action against home demolitions that day.

John Thielking also says, "I have looked at the alleged photos of Rachel Corrie published on the veterans for peace website. The picture that shows Rachel and her companion standing between the bulldozer and the house is clearly doctored. Both people's feet are missing, at the mid calf, not at the ankle as would be expected if they were buried in bushes or grass."

Lengths of grasses and weeds vary in size.

The Israeli government murdered this woman for trying to stop the demolition of a family’s home.
 

Photo: True of False

John,

I don't see that the photo is "clearly doctored" or that taking the particular photo would be unusual in any way.

This is a courageous act of non-violent civil disobediance; it's the very sort of thing that activists would take a picture of in order to tell the story eternal story of Resistance Against Oppression.

If you had been standing there with a camera, standing where the photographer was, would you have considered taking this picture? Would you have said to yourself, "Hey look, US activists are placing their bodies in the way of Israeli bulldozers in order to protect Palestinian homes. That might make a decent picture to show other people." Well... you make up your own mind; I would have taken that picture.

As for your assertion that the image is "clearly doctored," I do not agree. While I can see how you might consider such, there are simple and reasonable explanations other than manipulation.

1)Grass/Brush Height: can vary considerably within a given area due to many factors. Here, it appears that the dirt in the foreground has been upturned recently, which would explain the particularly short grass on top of it. The background does not appear to have been upturned, so the grass there could easily be much higher.

2) Also, since the foreground dirt is raised, it causes a visual obstruction of the subjects' feet. Variations in dirt height could easily account for differing amounts of feet/legs visible.

While the above points do not "prove" that the photo was not doctored, they DO provide simple and reasonable explanations in support of a non-manipulated image.
 

Eyewitness accounts of Rachel Corrie's death

Let's consider statements made by ISM members shortly after Corrie's death. At the link below, is the testimony of ISM member, Joseph Smith, in its entirety:

www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Palestine/032003_the_moments_before.htm

SOME EXERPTS:

JOSEPH SMITH: "Hay Salaam activists noticed that two Israeli Army bulldozers and one tank have entered onto Palestinian civilian property near the border and are demolishing FARMLAND and other already damaged structures."

"At this point, Rachel and the two other activists joined us from the well, with a banner and a megaphone. Rachel and a British activist were wearing jackets that were fluorescent orange and had reflective stripping."

Rachel and two other activists began interfering with the other bulldozer, which was attempting to DESTROY GRASS and other plants on what used to be farmland. They stood and sat in its path, and though it would drive very close to them, and even move the earth on which they were sitting, it always stopped in time to avoid injuring them.

"...five of the activists walked on the Palestinian land, and followed the bulldozers."

We noticed that the bulldozers had incurred back onto Palestinian land, and the six activists were opposing them, so we left the tank to join them.

"We climbed onto some already damaged structures that were threatened, and kept the bulldozers from incurring any further onto Palestinian land.

"One bulldozer, serial number 949623, began to WORK NEAR the house of a physician who is a friend of ours, and in whose house Rachel and other activists often stayed."

BECKY: Note--at this time, no house has been destroyed nor it apparent that any house is about to be destroyed. Corrie died defending a field!

JOSEPH SMITH: "Rachel sat down in the pathway of the bulldozer.

"When it got so close that it was moving the earth beneath her, she climbed onto the pile of rubble being pushed by the bulldozer. She got so high onto it that she was at eye-level with the cab of the bulldozer. Her head and upper torso were above the bulldozer's blade, and the bulldozer driver and co-operator could clearly see her.

BECKY: Alice Cox who witnessed Rachel Corrie's death said that Rachel was "eyelevel with the bulldozer driver. Her head could be seen above the blade." This conflicts with Smith's testimony which claims her neck and torso were visible.

JOSEPH SMITH: "...he continued forward, which pulled her legs into the pile of rubble, and pulled her down out of view of the diver.

LATER AT A MEMORIAL FOR CORRIE:

"Underneath a large tent there are chairs in which visitors may sit and talk. Beautiful Arabic music is played over a loud speaker, along with comments and speeches about the deceased. All around, signs and banners are hung, along with many copies of her "Shahid Poster".

"Palestinians always design a poster for each shahid (martyr) that displays the shahid's picture and words about them. Thousands of copies have been made, posted and distributed all around Rafah. We especially placed them in areas Rachel frequented, such as the internet café in which she sometimes spent all night."

BECKY: So now Rachel is a Shehada? A Holy Martyr for Islamic Jihad? Is this what the ISM is promoting? A holy war against the infidels?
Some peace advocate!!!

JOSEPH SMITH: "The fact that one American peace activist was killed should only show how frequently Israeli soldiers kill unarmed civilians."

BECKY: Right. Because an ISM activist puts herself in harm's way and is ACCIDENTALLY killed, doesn't PROVE anything about whether the IDF kills unarmed civilians. If anything, it PROVES that its dangerous to try to stop a bulldozer!

Check out: www.peacewithrealism.org/corrie.htm

This site shows the two photos Steve posted above with the captions underneath the two (different) bulldozers copied from the ISM website shortly after Corrie's death.

Here are the captions beneath the photos:

Rachel Corrie "before" the accident (International Solidarity Movement)

After the accident (International Solidarity Movement)

This shows the ISM MEANT to mislead the public and CLAIMED the two photos were taken just before and just after the accident. Anyone examining the photos can see that the bulldozers are not the same, with one being red and the other blue.

The ISM initially fooled both CNN and the NYT's forcing them to print the following retractions:

CNN, March 25, 2003:

Caption clarification: Photos by an International Solidarity Movement eyewitness show Rachel Corrie protesting earlier, and then later, after she was hit by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza on Sunday (3).

The New York Times, March 26, 2003:

A picture caption on March 17 with an article about an American protester who was crushed by an Israeli Army bulldozer in Gaza referred incorrectly to the bulldozer shown. It was one that the protester, Rachel Corrie, had earlier tried to stop from destroying a Palestinian home. It was not the one that killed her.

However, pro-Palestinian web sites, including the International Solidarity Movement's own web site, continue to present the two pictures with incorrect and misleading labels.

Later reports found that the photographer himself later admitted that no one with a camera had been present at the site just before Rachel's accident, that the picture with the megaphone had actually been taken hours earlier, and that at the time of the accident Rachel was not in sight of the driver.

Look carefully at the photo Steve posted that I called a phoney, photo-shop special. Look at the relative size of Corrie's body and the size of the blade. Is it realistic that the driver could see her body over the top of the blade?

According to the Caterpillar website, the bulldozer that crushed Corrie had a blade 8' 4" tall. To be eye-level with the cab, Corrie needed to have her head 9' 10" above the ground.

Steve, you really should be more careful about what you post here and what claims you make.
 

The Tragic But Laughable Case Of Becky Johnson

Becky Johnson tells us a pack of lies mixed with irrelevant facts, and then states, "Steve, you really should be more careful about what you post here and what claims you make."

In addition she shows here total racist hatred for the Palestinian people by claiming that being a martyr for the Palestinian people is being: "A Holy Martyr for Islamic Jihad? Is this what the ISM is promoting? A holy war against the infidels? Some peace advocate!!!"

Sort of like calling those who put up pictures of Martin Luther King Junior spear chucking supporters of the rape of white women!

Johnson is a racist that is backing the mass murder of Palestinians.
 

The only thing "Laughable" is your analogy

A poster of MLK Jr. does not mean "spear chucking supporters of the rape of white women" in anyone's mind.

But the Palestinians consider a shehada a "martyr" in the cause of Holy Jihad against the Infidels who are defined as anyone who is not Muslim.

Why would the ISM embrace calling Corrie a "shehada?" This is a title reserved for suicide bombers and those killed while attacking the enemy. She wasn't Muslim. She wasn't trying to destroy the state of Israel and replace it with an Islamic state...or was she?????

You said I told "a pack of lies."
Can you name even one?
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

More state-racist propaganda from Becky Johnson. Yeah since when do you know diddly squat about the Arabic language? Or do you still think Palestinians speak in ape sign language. Based upon the tone of your posts, you do believe that in your racist derangement. Do us all a favor and can the propaganda. Just to spite Baecky, lets all take one extra look at Al Jazeera every time we encounter one of her posts.
 

I'm just one person talking

I don't know why my opinions are so upsetting to so many people. If I have said something that is innaccurate or in error, please just make the correction. Claiming I am "lying" without naming the lie doesn't move our understanding along one inch.

If you take a black and white view----that Israel and the United States are bad, evil, have the worst motives in anything they attempt, will lie, cheat, and steal, and you also conversely believe anything negative said about either Israel or the United States as the absolute truth, then you are in good company with Steve Argue, "Guy",Go Away Becky, and A Reader.

If, however, you take a view that no country is perfect, no people admirable in every way, but that all are human beings worth investing our time, our concern, and our money, then you may be more interested in the things I have to say.

When I criticize a countries practices (say Sudan), it DOESN'T mean I want to invade them or bomb them. It doesn't mean I think everyone in that country is inferior or a murderer.Steve Argue jumps to conclusions about what I support and promote when I have made no such statements.

I believe he does it, because he does not want to deal with the actual points or information I am discussing, and as a method of diverting attention away from an area he would rather not discuss (I never said Steve was a dummie!), he instead accuses me of promoting a policy I don't promote, and then spends the rest of his effort condemning me for the opinion he just invented.

I have raised serious questions about ISM efforts to mislead the public with some questionable photos. I have raised serious doubts that Corrie was murdered, simply by using the statements made by ISM eyewitnesses themselves. I think the evidence points to accidental death. I am not infallible. But Steve Argue wasn't there either. And if he CLAIMS to be some kind of expert, then he needs to answer the concerns I have raised without launching into personal attacks against me.

Response to Guy: I may not speak Arabic but when I hear Allah Akbah!! the hairs stand up on the back of my neck! I didn't know what Intifada meant a few years ago either. Hey, its a learning process.

But if YOU ARE an expert on Arabic, Guy, why don't you correct me? Is a Shehada NOT a martyr for the cause of holy Jihad?

Do you think it was wise of the ISM to put posters of Rachel Corrie all over Rafah announcing her martyrdom?
 

The devil is in the details

After looking at the photo again it is not clear that it is fake. There is a branch of some kind in front of one of Rachel's legs, which would be fairly difficult to fake with a simple cut and paste job. Plus if you blow up the picture there are fadings around the branch on top of RC's leg which would be even more difficult to fake. Still, the appearance of the other ISM member's legs seems strange. To the casual eye it looks like a cut and paste job. The same branch that was in front of RC's leg is also right at the bottom of the right portion (his right, our left)of the other ISM member's right leg. Too bad we don't have access to higher resolution copies of these photos.

Arguing about photos like these does not sway my opinion that Rachel was murdered. I believe the ISM about what happened to RC. It is just that one should consider the temptation to skew the facts under discussion when one is under pressure, such as the ISM probably was after the death of RC. It is in this light that I consider the photos to be open to question. Undoubtedly one or more of the photos is a "file photo" possibly taken days or more before the accident and/or in a different location (as demonstrated by inconsistencies in the # of trees and poles in the background between two of the photos in question -- that Steve has reposted here as the second and third picture-- that show first RC standing facing the bulldozer and then a very simillar picture taken after she is run over). It is difficult to say weather the difference in blue and red on the blade(s) of the bulldozer(s) is genuine/paint or is just a refelction off of the shiny metal blade.

I suppose I should beware of the fate of the Dead Armadillo and get out of the middle of the road (stop covering both sides) before I get run over...
 

Murder or Accidental death?

Looking at the two bulldozers, note that the lights are mounted differently on the top of the cab on the "blue" one and flush with the top of the cab on the "red" one.

In the other photo--not only are the feet missing, but the two figures are standing at an unnatural angle, different from what we would expect with the force of gravity. My Dafka sources tell me the IDF investigation concluded that the photos were doctored.

I do NOT believe Corrie was murdered. First, no one knows what was in the mind of the bulldozer driver, so only HE knows for sure if he intentionally ran over Rachel Corrie.

But, the ISM volunteers said "they always stopped before" indicating that when they saw a person in their path, they stopped.

The blade, according to the website selling Caterpiller bulldozers, says the blade is 8 ft. 4 inches high. It would be very hard for Corrie to get up high enough to be seen over the blade.

ISM witness, Joseph Smith testified "she sat in the pathway of the bulldozer". For her to be eye-level with the driver she would have had to get up 9 ft 10 inches. this strains credibility.

So its entirely possible the driver did NOT see her. Since he had stopped each time before, and since he told the IDF investigation that he ran over her accidentally, I think the charge of murder is pretty far-fetched.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

"The blade, according to the website selling Caterpiller bulldozers, says the blade is 8 ft. 4 inches high. It would be very hard for Corrie to get up high enough to be seen over the blade."

Unless, the APPROACHING bulldozer was far enough away to see her. Its been reported elsewhere, that Rachel, "sat down in the dirt 20 feet in front, to block its path. Despite her non-violent resistance, the bulldozer lurched forward, pushing up dirt as as came close to her. Rachel, clad in a bright-orange vest and shouting to the driver through a megaphone, climbed up on the pile and was eye-level with the driver as he continued forward, pushing her, until the mound under her gave way and she went into the pile of earth.
As the other activists witnessing this came running, the driver continued pushing until Rachel was under the blade of the bulldozer. Then, after a slight pause, backed away without lifting the blade so it hit Rachel Corrie again. "

You decide...
 

He couldn't see her bright orange vest

Witness Alice Cox said "her head was above the blade" which means he couldn't see her orange vest.

Witness Joseph Smith said: "Still wearing her fluorescent jacket, she sat down at least 15 meters in front of the bulldozer, and began waving her arms and shouting, just as activists had successfully done dozens of times that day."

That's 15 meters, NOT 20 yards. 1 yard = 0.9144 meters.

Even if the driver COULD have seen Rachel, maybe he DIDN'T. THAT is what he testified. That he didn't see her.

As you can see, she didnt have a megaphone either at that point. (Another reason why the ISM before/after photos were wrong).

Chances are the driver of a HUGE caterpillar bulldozer pushing dirt and debris couldn't really hear what the other people, even with megaphones were shouting. Or maybe it didn't register in time to prevent the accident.

To me, the most compelling evidence is that the same bulldozer driver had ALWAYS stopped previously. This suggests that this time, he didnt see her until it was too late.

This is sufficient reasonable doubt that no court would convict him of murder, short of a confession.

I doubt you could even get a negligent manslaughter charge either, since they had tried several times previously to get the ISM members to stop playing chicken with the bulldozer.

NOTE: NO HOUSE WAS DESTROYED ALL DAY! IT IS ONLY IN THE MINDS OF THE ISM WORKERS THAT THE IDF INTENDED TO DESTROY ANY HOUSES.
 

On rescuing Private Lynch and forgetting Rachel Corrie

The Israeli army got away with murder - and now all activists are at risk

Naomi Klein
Thursday May 22, 2003
The Guardian

Jessica Lynch and Rachel Corrie could have passed for sisters. Two all-American blondes, two destinies for ever changed in a Middle East war zone. Private Jessica Lynch, the soldier, was born in Palestine, West Virginia. Rachel Corrie, the activist, died in Israeli-occupied Palestine.
Corrie was four years older than 19-year-old Lynch. Her body was crushed by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza seven days before Lynch was taken into Iraqi custody on March 23. Before she went to Iraq, Lynch organised a pen-pal programme with a local kindergarten. Before Corrie left for Gaza, she organised a pen-pal programme between kids in her hometown of Olympia, Washington, and children in Rafah.

Lynch went to Iraq as a soldier loyal to her government. Corrie went to Gaza to oppose the actions of her government. As a US citizen, she believed she had a special responsibility to defend Palestinians against US-built weapons, purchased with US aid to Israel. In letters home, she described how fresh water was being diverted from Gaza to Israeli settlements, how death was more normal than life. "This is what we pay for here," she wrote.

Unlike Lynch, Corrie did not go to Gaza to engage in combat: she went to try to thwart it. Along with her fellow members of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), she believed that the Israeli military's incursions could be slowed by the presence of highly visible "internationals". The killing of Palestinian civilians may have become commonplace, the thinking went, but Israel doesn't want the diplomatic or media scandals that would come if it killed a US student.

In a way, Corrie was harnessing the very thing that she disliked most about her country: the belief that American lives are worth more than any others - and trying to use it to save a few Palestinian homes from demolition.

Believing her fluorescent orange jacket would serve as armour, Corrie stood in front of bulldozers, slept beside wells and escorted children to school. If suicide bombers turn their bodies into weapons of death, Corrie turned hers into the opposite - a weapon of life, a "human shield".

When that Israeli bulldozer driver looked at Corrie's orange jacket and pressed the accelerator, her strategy failed. It turns out that the lives of some US citizens - even beautiful, young, white women - are valued more than others. And nothing demonstrates this more starkly than the opposing responses to Rachel Corrie and Pte Jessica Lynch.

When the Pentagon announced Lynch's successful rescue, she became a hero, complete with "America loves Jessica" fridge magnets, stickers, T-shirts, mugs, country songs and an NBC made-for-TV movie. According to White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, President George Bush was "full of joy for Jessica Lynch". Her rescue, we were told, was a testament to a core American value: as West Virginia senator Jay Rockefeller said to the Senate: "We take care of our people."

Do they? Corrie's death, which made the papers for two days and then virtually disappeared, has met with almost total official silence, despite the fact that eyewitnesses claim it was a deliberate act. President Bush has said nothing about a US citizen killed by a US-made bulldozer bought with US tax dollars. A US congressional resolution demanding an independent inquiry has been buried in committee, leaving the Israeli military's investigation - which cleared itself of any wrongdoing - as the only official investigation.

The ISM says that this non-response has sent a clear, and dangerous, signal. According to Olivia Jackson, a 25-year-old British citizen in Rafah: "After Rachel was killed, [the Israeli military] waited for the response from the American government and the response was pathetic. They know they can get away with it, and it has encouraged them to keep on going."

First there was Brian Avery, a 24-year-old US citizen shot in the face on April 5. Then Tom Hurndall, a British ISM activist shot in the head and left brain dead on April 11. Next was James Miller, the British cameraman shot dead while wearing a vest that said "TV". In all of these cases, eyewitnesses say the shooters were Israeli soldiers.

There is something else that Jessica Lynch and Rachel Corrie have in common: both of their stories have been distorted by the military for its own purposes. According to the official story, Lynch was captured in a bloody gun battle, mistreated by sadistic Iraqi doctors, then rescued in another storm of bullets by heroic Navy Seals. In the past weeks, another version has emerged. The doctors who treated Lynch found no evidence of battle wounds, and donated their own blood to save her life. Most embarrassing of all, witnesses have told the BBC that those daring Navy Seals already knew there were no Iraqi fighters left in the area when they stormed the hospital.

But while Lynch's story has been distorted to make its protagonists appear more heroic, Corrie's story has been posthumously twisted to make her, and her fellow ISM activists, appear sinister.

For months, the Israeli military had been looking for an excuse to get rid of the ISM "troublemakers". It found it in Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, the two British suicide bombers. It turns out that they had attended a memorial service for Corrie in Rafah, a fact the Israeli military has seized on to link the ISM to terrorism. Members of ISM point out that the event was open to the public, and that they knew nothing of the British visitors' intentions.

In the past two weeks, half a dozen ISM activists have been arrested, several deported, and the organisation's offices raided. The crackdown is spreading to all "internationals", meaning there are fewer people in the occupied territories to either witness the abuses or assist the victims. On Monday, the UN special coordinator for the Middle East peace process told the security council that dozens of UN aid workers had been prevented from getting in and out of Gaza, calling it a violation of "Israel's international humanitarian law obligations".

On June 5 there will be a international day of action for Palestinian rights. One of the demands is for the UN to send a monitoring force into the occupied territories. Until that happens, many are determined to continue Corrie's work. More than 40 students at her former college, Evergreen State, Olympia, have signed up to go to Gaza with the ISM this summer.

So who is a hero? During the attack on Iraq, some of Corrie's friends emailed her picture to MSNBC asking that it be included on the station's "wall of heroes", along with Jessica Lynch. The network didn't comply, but Corrie is being honoured in other ways. Her family has received more than 10,000 letters of support, communities across the country have organised memorial services, and children from the occupied territories are being named Rachel. It's not a made-for-TV kind of tribute, but maybe that's for the best.
 

Yes, he could see her just fine

Becky Johnson attempts to distract, distort, and justify this MURDER with conjecture, and innuendo, but few facts.

BJ: "That's 15 meters, NOT 20 yards. 1 yard = 0.9144 meters. Even if the driver COULD have seen Rachel, maybe he DIDN'T. THAT is what he testified. That he didn't see her."

Its says 20 FEET you clod, not 20 yards. As far as the driver's testimony, (here's a *shocking* bit of news) PEOPLE LIE. Especially when they are trying to protect themselves from criminal proceedings.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

How did we get from prasing a wel-respected jounalist for her hard work, to a discussion on the death of Rachel Corrie?
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

It all started with Becky Johnson saying, "I really appreciate Amy Goodman's work on most issues. But when it comes to Israel..."
 

Klein's account emotional but not factual

Response to Naomi Klein: I appreciate your contrasting the stories of Jessica Lynch and Rachel Corrie. I agree, way too much was made of Lynch's supposed bravery.

But I must disagree with some of your assertions in this article. I do appreciate that you wrote this article very close to when Rachel Corrie was killed, and have not had the benefit of reading the complete testimonies of the five ISM eyewitnesses. I have not read any accounts by the driver of the bulldozer, so even now I do not have all the information I would want, before truly knowing what the specifics are regarding this case.

YOU WROTE: "For months, the Israeli military had been looking for an excuse to get rid of the ISM "troublemakers".

BECKY: In addition to NOTHING but bad publicity for Israel, the ISM were actively interferring in IDF security operations. The first was free speech protected, but the 2nd was illegal.

NAOMI: "It found it in Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, the two British suicide bombers.

BECKY: Both Muslims but British citizens, one man exploded at a pub that catored to Israeli/Palestinian camraderie, killing 3 and wounding 55 others. The two terrorists entered Israel from Gaza, police said.

NAOMI: It turns out that they had attended a memorial service for Corrie in Rafah, a fact the Israeli military has seized on to link the ISM to terrorism. Members of ISM point out that the event was open to the public, and that they knew nothing of the British visitors' intentions."

BECKY: As a previous poster recently pointed out "PEOPLE LIE. Especially when they are trying to protect themselves from criminal proceedings." Maybe the ISM didn't know what their plans were. AND MAYBE THEY DID! Those two British citizens spent all day in the ISM office in Gaza just before crossing into Israel using their British citizenship to help avoid detection. They became only the 2nd successful suicide bombing mission originating from Gaza in the intifada.

NAOMI: Re: Rachel Corrie: "The Israeli army got away with murder - and now all activists are at risk"

BECKY: I do not believe the evidence supports a murder charge. More evidence exists that her death was caused by the bulldozer driver not seeing her on that fatal last pass.

NAOMI: "Before Corrie left for Gaza, she organised a pen-pal programme between kids in her hometown of Olympia, Washington, and children in Rafah."

BECKY: Corrie had an anti-American agenda with those kindergarteners too. She taught them how to draw an American flag and then burn it.

NAOMI: "As a US citizen, she believed she had a special responsibility to defend Palestinians against US-built weapons, purchased with US aid to Israel."

BECKY: Actually, those US-made weapons are used against Palestinian TERRORISTS. I saw no entry in Corrie's journal complaining about US funds given to the PA being used for Palestinian weapons used for terrorism against Israel. She didn't even acknowledge that the bulldozer that killed her was ostensibly there to destroy arms-smuggling tunnels.

NAOMI: "Israel doesn't want the diplomatic or media scandals that would come if it killed a US student."

BECKY: This is, of course true. But it its opposite is ALSO true. Palestinian terror groups would BENEFIT from media about a US college girl being "murdered" by Israel.

NAOMI: "despite the fact that eyewitnesses claim it was a deliberate act. "

BECKY: All eyewitnesses were members of the ISM. But even if we assume they ALL told the truth, none of them knows what was in the mind of that bulldozer driver that day. They all ASSUMED he killed her purposely.

NAOMI: "When that Israeli bulldozer driver looked at Corrie's orange jacket and pressed the accelerator, her strategy failed."

BECKY: And neither do you!! This statement of yours is inflamatory, contradicts what the driver actually claimed he did, is at contrast with what he had done EVERY OTHER TIME earlier that day when he saw a person with an orange vest in his sight, and tests our common sense when we are expected to believe Corrie's head was NINE FEET TEN INCHES ABOVE THE GROUND just prior to being bulldozed under. Your statement is inflammatory to the point of being incendiary.

NAOMI: "leaving the Israeli military's investigation - which cleared itself of any wrongdoing - as the only official investigation."

BECKY: If a bulldozer crushed a person to death in Santa Cruz County, do you think anyone OTHER than the USA would investigate the incident? Why do you have unreasonable standards for Israel that you don't have for other countries?

Also, the IDF did not destroy ANY houses the day Corrie died. She died defending an empty field.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

"...I do not have all the information I would want, before truly knowing what the specifics are regarding this case."

This sums up Becky's understanding of thew entire Israel/Palestine conflict.
 

We Were Distracted by a Belligerent Troll

How did we get distracted from our good conversation and instead end up talking only about Becky's singular topic?

WE LET OURSELVES FALL FOR IT!

We keep engaging her.

Maybe we should... ohhh, I don't know... IGNORE HER?

That's my proposal:
Ignore Becky when she is off topic (which is most of the time), and instead continue with meaningful debate and discussion about the topic at hand.
 

Which witness PROVED it was murder?

READER SAYS: "Its says 20 FEET you clod, not 20 yards"

BECKY: You are right. You wrote 20 feet. I'm not sure which eyewitness you are quoting. I got 15 meters from the testimony of Joseph Smith.
At 20 ft or 6 2/3 yards (6 meters) he DEFINITELY would not be able to see her sitting or kneeling on the ground in front of an 8ft 4 in blade.

Thats a pretty big discrepancy between 15 meters (Joseph Smith) and YOUR witness account of 6 meters.

But how do you explain the previously unexplained ability of ISM members to READ PEOPLE'S MINDS? How did the ISM members know what was in the MIND of the bulldozer driver?

Your point about the possibility of the driver lying is well taken. However, the reverse is also true. Murder makes better PR against Israel than an accidental death with victim complicity.

However, what part of ANY of the eyewitnesses testimony do you find conclusively proves it was murder?
 

You learn more from your opponents than you do from your allies

Response to Neanderthal: You have no obligation whatsoever to reply to my posts. If people stopped making outrageous claims, posting falsified evidence, distorting history, and lopsided reporting, I'd spend more time at the beach!

Let me remind you, though, that debate is the heart of democracy.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Stupid Johnson asks, "However, what part of ANY of the eyewitnesses testimony do you find conclusively proves it was murder?"

Here is that part:

The Israeli government was carrying out a crime against the property and homes of the Palestinian people. In the course of committing those crimes the Israeli government proceeded to assault a woman they knew was there with a deadly weapon, namely a bulldozer. This assault killed Rachel Corrie. This is called murder.

Stupid Johnson is willing to believe any and every lie the Israeli government comes up with. She is also a member of an organization called Dafka that not only libels the peace activists of ISM by calling them terrorists, but also brags about spying on ISM and turning their names over to the police for deportation from Israel.

Becky isn't just a racist idiot, she is also an enemy of the people.
 

No HOME was destroyed that day either, Steve

STEVE WRITES: "The Israeli government was carrying out a crime against the property and homes of the Palestinian people."

BECKY: Steve raises an interesting point of whether the IDF operation of destroying tunnels between Gaza and Egypt is legal. (he simply asserts it is, without any evidence) And if its legal, to what extent do homeowners who willfully, or innocently provide shelter for those arms-smuggling operations deserve to be compensated for the damage to their homes?

I don't know the answer to these questions. Anyone, including Palestinians, can file in the Israeli courts to challenge the legality of the IDF action. My guess is that the courts have ruled that it is a matter of life and death military expediency and that homeowners have a responsibility to make sure their homes are NOT used for terror operations.

STEVE WRITES: In the course of committing those crimes the Israeli government proceeded to assault a woman they knew was there...

BECKY: Steve, you are going to have to do better than that! How do we KNOW the driver SAW her in the seconds before she was crushed? None of the witnesses were able to PROVE this with their testimony. The driver has testified otherwise.

If you are correct, that the IDF operation was a crime in progress, then her death, even if accidental, would be negligent homicide.

However, the law of the land is the Israeli courts (sigh, there is STILL no country called PALESTINE). So until the driver is indicted, the IDF operation was legal in Israeli courts, and her death accidental according to the only investigation done of the tragic event.

STEVE: "...with a deadly weapon, namely a bulldozer. This assault killed Rachel Corrie. This is called murder."

BECKY: Again, I don't think you've proved the murder charge. You haven't pointed to any key testimony that proves it was murder. You havent answered any of my questions which asked how her head could have gotten up 9 ft 10 inches off the ground for her to be at his eyelevel.

If she only got a part of her head above the blade, how can you be so sure the driver saw her?
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

Stupid Johnson writes, "Steve raises an interesting point of whether the IDF operation of destroying tunnels between Gaza and Egypt is legal."

1. There were no tunnels in the good doctor's home.

2. I sad it was a crime to destroy houses and other property. This has nothing to do with if it was legal or not. Legality has nothing to do with justice. Slavery was legal and that wasn't right. Sleep is also illegal in Santa Cruz for those who are homeless. I am not interested in what is legal; I'm interested in what is right.

Murder and the demolition of homes is not right.
 

What about the tunnels Steve?

Up until 2002, Palestinian terrorists got their guns, bombs, and rockets by sea. Then the IDF found out and blocked the Palestinian boats from going in and out of the harbor (and destroyed the Palestinian fishing industry in the process).

Since 2002, the Palestinian terrorists, frustrated by not being able to get their murderous weapons by sea, have resorted to digging tunnels between Egypt and Rafah in Gaza.

The IDF has had to find these tunnels and destroy them.

Steve, do you think the IDF has both a right and duty to destroy those tunnels?

How should they do that if a tunnel goes under a house?

Since 2002, the IDF has found and destroyed more than 90 tunnels in this region.

ALSO: Steve wrote: "There were no tunnels in the good doctor's home."

He is referring to the home Rachel Corrie supposedly died defending. STEVE---NO HOUSES WERE DESTROYED AT ALL THE DAY CORRIE DIED!!!

Have you read the eyewitness accounts or not?

Why would you come here and post your comments if you haven't taken the time to do the research?
 

Rachel Corrie's Critics Fire Blanks

Rachel Corrie's Critics Fire Blanks

Steve Niva, The Electronic Intifada, 16 March 2004
rachelcorrie483.jpg
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A year has passed since Rachel Corrie, a 23 year-old American peace activist from Olympia, Washington, was killed by an Israel army bulldozer while nonviolently trying to prevent the demolition of a Palestinian house in the city of Rafah in the Gaza Strip.

During this time, the Israeli government has strenuously sought to obscure the circumstances of Rachel's death and prevent an independent investigation. It has even refused to release its June 2003 military police investigation final report to the United States, only allowing an American embassy official to read and take notes from selected parts.

Yet what is even worse is that in response to mounting international criticism of Israel's 37-year military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Israel's current defenders have concocted a new security threat to justify Israeli policies: international activists who engage in nonviolent activism on behalf of Palestinian human rights.

Israel's new security threat, according to this story, is led by the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a small and mostly youthful group of international activists who travel to the Occupied Palestinian Territories to engage in nonviolent resistance against the Israeli occupation and attempt to reduce Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians.

Israeli officials and their colleagues in the US have leveled a bewildering assortment of accusations regarding ISM activities, including the predictable charge of aiding and abetting Palestinian terrorism. The Israeli army raided the ISM offices in Beit Sahour on May 9 2003, confiscating files and computers, but they have yet to make any formal charges. Perhaps there is not even enough evidence to fabricate any of their charges?

This defamation campaign against the ISM gained in scope and vitriol following the March 16, 2003 death of Rachel Corrie, an American activist killed by an Israeli bulldozer while defending a Palestinian home from demolition in the Gaza Strip town of Rafah. Another ISM activist Tom Hurndall, a British international, was shot in the head and left brain-dead weeks later in Rafah, and other ISM activists have been shot and wounded in the past year. Hurndall was recently pronounced dead.

But it is Rachel Corrie's death that has become the subject of the most intensely defensive and vicious attacks by Israel's most vociferous apologists, including a recent editorial in the right-wing Jerusalem Post. These attacks, in effect, mirror the outpouring of sympathy and support for Rachel and her actions around the world, and most significantly, in Palestine, where she has been embraced and memorialized in posters and youth centers.

Israeli apologists have excoriated Rachel as a tragically misguided young idealist or worse; a stooge of terrorists and perhaps their willing accomplice. Many have disgracefully applauded her death, even in correspondences to her parents.

As we approach the one-year anniversary of her death, it is necessary to review and debunk several of the most frequent propaganda claims about Rachel that continue to circulate.

1. "It was an accident..."

The initial Israeli army claim that Rachel's death was an "unfortunate accident" is contradicted by overwhelming evidence from at six eyewitnesses who testify that Rachel was clearly visible to the bulldozer drivers with her bright orange jacket and that it lifted her up and then drove over her with its plow down, even as her fellow activists shouted and ran towards the bulldozer.

The Israeli military maintains that the bulldozer operators could not see Rachel-although there were two people in each bulldozer and two other bulldozers and an APC at the site in close radio contact. The other activists who were present that day stated that prior to Rachel's death, the bulldozers stopped several times directly at their feet. This raises serious questions about the Israeli army claims of poor visibility.

Israeli officials have subsequently shifted their story from denying that Rachel was run over by the bulldozer, to now maintaining that Rachel was not actually touched by the bulldozer but killed by falling on a concrete block, which is contradicted by the Israeli autopsy report the Corrie family was able to obtain.

Some Israeli apologists incessantly point out that photographs posted on several websites by ISM activists show pictures of Rachel in two different locations confronting bulldozers, which they somehow take as proof that eyewitness accounts cannot be believed. It is true that there are several pictures from different locations posted on some websites, but only through twisting logic can one conclude that this has any bearing on the actual circumstances of Rachel's death that day.

If Rachel's critics were really serious about getting at the truth, they would join the rest of the world in calling for an independent investigation into Rachel's death, which Israel refuses to countenance, so that the glaring discrepancies between the Israeli army whitewash and eyewitness accounts can be clarified.


2. "She was defending terrorists who smuggle weapons through tunnels to kill Israelis"

While no one disputes the existence of a small number of tunnels in Rafah that funnel weapons to militants, Israeli security claims about the need to destroy Rafah in order to find tunnels are little more than crude propaganda. Moreover, callous claims that Rachel was knowingly defending tunnels and suicide bombers illustrate the depths many Israeli sympathizers will plumb to defend the indefensible.

First, the Israeli army has never claimed nor provided any evidence that Dr. Samir Nasrallah, whose house Rachel was defending, or anyone else in this neighborhood, were concealing any tunnels or were engaged in any attacks on Israelis.


Source: CIA World Fact Book
Second, any weapons that get through tunnels are only used in guerrilla actions against soldiers and settlers within the Gaza Strip, not against civilians within Israel. One of the main arguments Israeli officials use to justify building the barrier in the West Bank is the fact that no Palestinian suicide bombers have come from Gaza in the past three years. Gaza is surrounded by a heavily monitored 52-kilometer (30-mile) electrified fence that keeps its 1.3 million impoverished Palestinians isolated from the world. Gaza is arguably the world's largest open-air prison, not a threat to Israeli civilians.

Third, the primary reason Palestinian homes in Rafah are being demolished daily by Israeli bulldozers is to make way for a massive 6-meter high steel wall Israel is building along the Egyptian border with Rafah, not tunnels. According to United Nation's officials, over the past three years Israel has destroyed nearly 900 houses in Rafah in order to create a one hundred meter "buffer zone" between Palestinian homes and the wall. Daily shelling and armed raids over the past three years have killed nearly 300 Palestinians and have left more than 8,600 people homeless.

The fact that Israel possesses ample equipment to discover and unearth these tunnels without resorting to widespread destruction and violence makes it clear that the ultimate goal of house demolitions in Rafah is to clear land for the wall. The governor of Rafah, Majid Ghal, rejects Israel's claims about tunnels as nonsense. "What they are doing is to carve out a buffer zone between Rafah and the border. The Israelis have always said they do not want Palestine to control its borders or to have borders with other countries. They are trying to drive people out."

The Israeli army denies any such motive but as The Guardian's Chris McGreal reported on October 27, 2003, even the previous head of the military's southern command for Gaza, Colonel Yom Tov Samya, has admitted that Israel's house demolitions policy was an end in itself, not a by-product of a search for tunnels. "The IDF (Israeli Defence Force) has to knock down all the houses along a strip of 300 to 400 metres. It doesn't matter what the future settlement will be, this will be the border with Egypt."

The massive steel wall that killed Rachel, and has destroyed the lives of thousands of Palestinians in Rafah, is being built for one reason: to protect the security of the 7,000 Israeli settlers with green lawns and swimming pools who illegally occupy 30 percent of Gaza's land. These settlements, along with dozens of military fortresses and Jewish-only bypass roads effectively divide Gaza into 3 sealed areas or ghettos, where a powerful army, with hundreds of tanks, attack helicopters, F-16s and overwhelming firepower largely operates with impunity against the civilian population. Their mission, protect the Israeli settlements. The wall built on the border signals that Israel plans to retain most, if not all of them, regardless of any settlement.


3. "If she really cared about human rights, she would ride with Israeli buses to protect Israeli citizens against suicide bombings"

Suicide bombings are vicious and grave abuses, war crimes under international law for intentionally killing civilians. But many Israeli attacks on Palestinians and their civilian infrastructure in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza, and such practices as using Palestinians as "human shields" and indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas, also constitute war-crimes for killing and targeting civilians. Both must be unequivocally condemned. Unfortunately, Rachel's critics are typically silent about Israel's atrocious record.

But from a human rights perspective, the main point, however, is that the Palestinian civilian population is illegally occupied by Israel and victimized in far greater numbers than Israel's with no real ability to protect itself. In the past three years nearly 3000 Palestinian civilians were killed as opposed to nearly 600 Israeli civilians. In addition, the Palestinian population is being subjected to a debilitating military siege punctuated by brutal military assaults and assassinations that has led to a humanitarian and human rights catastrophe.

No more so that in Rafah, where in addition to demolishing hundreds of homes, razing agricultural lands, destroying electrical infrastructure and terrorizing the population through nightly raids and sniper fire, the Israeli army has destroyed at least 10 major water wells upon which the Rafah municipality depends for pumping drinking water to residents.

The severity of this imbalance and the corresponding lack of protection for Palestinian civilians against grave human rights abuses committed by Israel had led to attempts to convene meetings of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva convention with the express intention of preventing Israeli violations of the Conventions in July 1999 and December 2001. In an official statement on this issue on December 5, 2001, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson called for an international monitoring presence in the occupied Palestinian territories stressing that:
"the failure of successive Israeli government to comply with the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention and international human rights standards, has left the population of occupied Palestinian territories in a vulnerable situation, lacking protection and exposed to a wide range of violations. Protection needs to be accorded to the people of the occupied territories in strict compliance with the Fourth Geneva Convention."

Needless to say, the United States, acting on Israel's request rejected the proposal, leading to the creation of the International Solidarity Movement and its small-scale efforts to undertake this urgent task of defending Palestinian civilians against heavy odds. People like Rachel are actually those most truly committed to the international human rights agenda because their efforts are most desperately needed.


4. "She burned an American flag in an anti-American demonstration..."

Israeli apologists frequently circulate a picture of Rachel burning an American flag at a Palestinian demonstration, as if to prove that she was an irresponsible promoter of anti-American hatred. But according to several accounts, Rachel found herself in the middle of a routine demonstration by Palestinian youth against the impending US war on Iraq and was pressed to burn a homemade paper Israeli and American flag, agreeing only to the second on the grounds that as a US citizen she could only bear responsibility for opposing US actions.

Yet the most important point that her critics miss is that the symbol of an American questioning her government's policy in the Middle East is extremely important and highly beneficial to Americans in general. It is very important for Americans to show people in this region that America is not monolithic and that some American civilians strongly disagree with their government's policies. Lack of exposure to these voices is a major factor that increases the likelihood of terrorism and animosity towards American citizens.

Compared to the immensely dangerous impact on regional public opinion of the widely disseminated images of U.S. Marines placing flags on Iraqi government symbols during the recent war, Rachel's act appears altruistic. Americans should be thankful for people like Rachel who uphold deeply rooted American values about freedom from illegitimate domination and for presenting a progressive image to the world.


Steve Niva teaches international politics and Middle East Studies at The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

While the blade of the bulldozer may have been 8+ ft tall, it is clear from the pictures that the cab of the bulldozer is well above that, probably at 12 ft or so. It is clear from the second picture that the driver could see RC over the top of the blade, assuming the clear part of the cab is where the driver's head is at. The issue should be focused on this fact and not so much on weather there were any tunnels involved, in my opinion. Though the 4th picture is suspect, and appears to show a much larger blade than the other two pictures, the driver should still have been able to see RC over the blade, provided he actually sits above the top of the hydraulic assembly in the upper left of the 4th picture. I can't imagine there would be much use for a bulldozer that was built such that the driver could not see over the top of the blade in the lowered position. Maybe someone, in their volumes of research, can show us or comment on a manufacturer's diagram of the bulldozer blade vs where the driver sits.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

"All I have done is to raise reasonable questions over whether Corrie was accidentally killed or murdered."

No Becky, you have not.
 

More Corrie commentary

Testimony of eyewitness Dr. Samir Nasrallah:

"Flanked by two tanks, the bulldozer came closer and closer to my home, and throughout all this, Rachel stood there with a megaphone in her hand repeating loudly that she was not going to move. The driver could see her clearly and he continued to approach the house.

She spoke louder and louder:"Stop! Stop! Don't Move!"

She identified herself as a member of the ISM, but to no avail. She started to scream at the top of her lungs, but the driver continued to approach her. I could see her clearly when the bulldozer had nearly reached her. It hurled a pile of sand at her, and she lost her balance and fell.

That is when I lost sight of her. She was no more than 10 meters from me."

Note: His testimony conflicts with that of Joseph Smith, another eyewitness. Dr. Nasrallah says she was standing while Smith said she was sitting. Another ISM eyewitness said she was kneeling. Smith said she waved her arms. Nasrallah says she had a megaphone.

STEVE NIVA POSTS:"The initial Israeli army claim that Rachel's death was an "unfortunate accident" is contradicted by overwhelming evidence from at six eyewitnesses who testify that Rachel was clearly visible to the bulldozer drivers with her bright orange jacket and that it lifted her up and then drove over her with its plow down, even as her fellow activists shouted and ran towards the bulldozer."

Witness Alice Cox said her "head was clearly visible over the blade" which implies that the driver could not see her orange jacket.

Witness Joseph Smith said her "head and torso were clearly visible" which is not the same as what Alice Cox testified.

Eyewitness Tom Dale: "Rachel knelt down in its way. She was 10-20 metres in front of the bulldozer, clearly visible, the only object for many metres, directly in its view. They were in radio contact with a tank that had a profile view of the situation. There is no way she could not have been seen by them in their elevated cabin. They knew where she was, there is no doubt.

The bulldozer drove toward Rachel slowly, gathering earth in its scoop as it went. She knelt there, she did not move. The bulldozer reached her and she began to stand up, climbing onto the mound of earth. She appeared to be looking into the cockpit."

BECKY: If Corrie had been able to "look into the cockpit" she must have had her head OVER the 8'4" blade. To look EYELEVEL with the driver, her head would have had to be 9'10" above the ground! He makes no mention of a megaphone.

Eyewitness Greg Schnabel :"The bulldozers destroyed part of a home which was unoccupied. Members of our group including myself stood inside this home in an attempt to stop them. One bulldozer then moved toward the house of Dr. Samir, one of the families with whom we had relations. Rachel was standing in front of this home. As the bulldozer approached she stood her ground. Rachel was wearing an orange fluorescent jacket. She was clearly visible to the bulldozer driver as well as to the soldiers in the tank. The bulldozer began to push up the ground from beneath her feet. The pile of earth was mounding up and she tried her best to stay on top of it. As the ground continued to move Rachel went down on her knees. The bulldozer continued to move forward. Rachel began to become buried beneath the dirt. Still it did not stop. Finally, Rachel was beneath the bulldozer."

BECKY: Schnabel claims Corrie was standing up. He makes no mention of a megaphone.

Eyewitness Richard Purssell :"At approximately 16:45 a bulldozer began making a straight run at a house which I now know to belong to a doctor Izmir [sic: Dr. Samir]. At this point the majority of the group were positioned around a wrecked building. We were all within 70 metres of each other. I was to the left of the ruined building and to the right of Dr. [Samir]'s house. Rachel was approximately 15 metres in front of me.

The ground was level and the light was good, I had a good view of everything which happened. Rachel was wearing an orange fluorescent jacket with reflective strips (the type worn by construction workers for high visibility and the avoidance of accidents). Rachel stood to confront the bulldozer and it approached her at about five or six miles an hour. The blade on the bulldozer was dipped into the ground and was scooping up soil.

As the bulldozer came nearer the pile mounted up. Rachel climbed up the pile and at the one stage was looking into the cabin window. There is no way that the driver could not have known she was there. The bulldozer continued driving forwards and Rachel turned round to face in my direction.

She began to slide down the pile, however as soon as her feet touched the ground for some reason she fell forward. Maybe her foot was caught or the weight of the soil pushed her forward. At this point the panic on her face was obvious.

We were all shouting, screaming and gesturing by this stage. The earth was totally pushed over her, engulfing her."

BECKY: This witness says nothing of a megaphone and does not report her sitting or kneeling. Yet he claims he had a clear view.

None of them have explained how Rachel Corrie could get her head higher than the 8' 4" blade.

These eyewitness testimonies don't agree on some of the factual evidence such as was Corrie sitting or standing, did she have a megaphone or not, how far was she from the bulldozer when she went and planted herself in front of it?

NONE of the eyewitnessed can say how they KNOW FOR CERTAIN what was in the mind of the bulldozer driver. Perhaps he didn't see her BECAUSE the other ISM activists were running at him from all sides shouting and waving.

Murder has definitely NOT been proven, and in fact, it appears that the ISM is not above faking the evidence (as the doctored photos prove).

We don't know for sure that Corrie wasn't aware of the tunnels and protecting them. She never mentioned their existance in her many letters back home. Nor did she acknowledge any of the activities of the Palestinian terror groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. She ONLY wrote about how badly the IDF treated the Palestinians as though it happened in a vaccuum.

The photo of Corrie burning the American flag shows her surrounded by small children. Geez, what a great American ambassador she was!!
Teaching 5 year olds to hate America!!

See the photo at:www.dafka.org/NewsGen.asp

As you can all see, I am carefully sifting through the evidence and I ask readers to explain why it is they know for sure that Corrie was murdered.
 

First of all, speaking of doctored photos...

"The photo of Corrie burning the American flag..."


Second, Palestinian kids would no more need "teaching" by others to hate the U.S. government than they need "teaching" by others to hate Israel. The U.S. government and the state of Israel do a fine job every day by themselves.
 

Are you saying that is not (the beautiful and attractive) Rachel Corrie?

Re: to Full of Shit: Are you saying that photo isn't Rachel Corrie?

Do you have any information to indicate its NOT Rachel Corrie? Enquiring minds want to know.
 

Becky Johnson Loves U.S. Imperialism

The point that missing in Johnson's complaint is that there is nothing wrong with burning an American flag. Johnson's chauvinism for U.S. imperialism is shining through as she continues to refuse to call for an end to U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.
 

The geopolitical understanding of kindergarteners

While Steve Argue is gifted with his knowledge of geopolitical influences affecting history and current events, Corrie burned her American Flag in front of kindergarten students.

The only message they are sophisticated enough to absorb is that America is Bad and Americans are bad.

I don't think Steve has presented ANY evidence that I support imperialism other than his own groundless charges. I believe that the act of burning an American flag is a free speech protected activity.
 

Becky Johnson Still Loves U.S. Imperialism

It was an American burning that flag. The message was therefore that the American government is bad, but that all Americans are not bad.

A couple of the most immediate points where Becky Johnson supports imperialism:

1. She made an issue of Rachel Corrie burning an American flag.

2. She continues to refuse to call for an end to U.S. military aid to the repressive governments of Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.

3. She supports every action of racist Israel, including the murder of Rachel Corrie.

I could draw up a large list, but this is enough.
 

Pretty uninspiring list

1. I said, burning a flag is legal and free speech protected. What this has to do with imperialism is beyond me. Knee-jerk patriotism, nationalism, and maybe symbolism---but imperialism??
2. I am not convinced that pulling out all aid to these countries is the best course. Some of the money is humanitarian. some of it helps keep an uneasy peace from erupting into deadly wars. that said, when I feel I have sufficient evidence to call for the revoking of those funds, I will. And not because I am bullied into taking a position by Steve Argue. I DO think we should pressure govt.s who receive aid to do a better job with protecting human and civil rights for their citizens.
3. Steve labels the entire country "racist" and anyone who supports that country "an imperialist". I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State. Steve does not. I also assert that Rachel Corrie was not murdered but died in an accident in which she was complicit.

Steve---you haven't proven a thing. How about some more phony "documents" and some more doctored photos?Or maybe you can repost Mrs. Serwawi's testimony? There's maybe one reader who hasn't seen it yet. (and they call ME a spammer!!!)
 

Amy Goodman Audio

so does anyone know where i could get the entire recording of amy's speech? there is a clip posted on here in mp3, but i would like the whole thing. thanks.
 

Re: Amy Goodman Accepts Ruben Salazar Journalism Award at UCSC

What a joke. Ranks on a par with Arafat winning the Nobel Peace Prize. The world truly has gone mad like in the 1930's. Germany redux.
 

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